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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Oct 19 2009 at 7:14am | IP Logged
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I have been reading the "Disciplining the Strong Willed Boy" thread with interest. I think I have 5 strong willed kids! I actually sat down with my 10 yo dd the other day to discuss some of her school work and why things weren't getting done. Her answer surprised me ... or maybe just humbled me because I knew it was true.
She told me she doesn't always get her work done for two reasons - a) she doesn't want to, and b) her brothers are too wild sometimes and it distracts her.
So, when I talked about some logical consequences she said "it doesn't really matter Mom, you're just not strict enough". OUCH! 
Any suggestions on how to be more strict?! 
I admit my DH is the disciplinarian. I grew up with a mother who never spanked us but she did go into rages, threw chairs, yelled things that still make me cringe, etc. She dealt with alot including a husband with cancer while she had 1 year old twin boys and my brother and I to care for. I don't hold it against her, I just don't want to be like her. So maybe that fear keeps me from being as stern/strict as I need to be?
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Becky
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Bridget
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| Posted: Oct 19 2009 at 8:33am | IP Logged
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This is really two issues. Discipline and crowd management.
It's much better to be strict BEFORE you lose it and rage. You can say, and enforce, 'Please go sweep the floor' or "Stop jumping on the couch and come do 5 math problems', in a calm, kind but firm way.
Kids are just noisy and have energy to burn. If you don't have work to give them and they can't get outside, make sure the older kids have a quiet place to do school work. We use desks in the bedroom and the comfy rocker in my room.
If it's any comfort, I think I am a pretty good disciplinarian, but my oldest doesn't think I am strict enough. 
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Oct 19 2009 at 10:25am | IP Logged
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And remember kids.. and even teens are still kids.. will think things like.. a 2 yr old sibling does something (or doesn't) and they'll think.. mom neve let me get away with that.. or she always made me do that.. not really realizing that they're remembering not when they were 2 but when they were 5 or 6.
So there is definately a matter of appropriateness that it wouldn't be a bad thing to discuss with older kids (child development stuff you know).. that when they're 2 is different than when they're 4 or when they're 6 and that things that are frowned on for a 6 yr old may not be things that you discipline a 2 yr old for.
Also, again a matter of appropriateness.. when kids are runnign around playing a game and not destroyign things.. as long as you're ok with the noise level (especially if it's occationally not continuously) then it may not be inappropriate for those kids to be allowed to play that way. Especially if they're supposed to be playing and not working  Your home is not the library after all.
I would look look at is if I was consistent with things that I knew should not happen. But not necessarily choose to take on more things that I didn't personally feel were necessary even if other people do them. I know I allow more noise and roughhousing than others might and that's ok.. those others don't live in my house. But you can still balance needs of different children.. making a space for the older child where it can be quiet.. giving her some of those muffling ear covers (like for shooting) or ear plugs or letting her listen to classical music on an mp3 player with ear buds even. Setting up times during the day when the kids are required to be quiet and other times that loud play is allowed. Because the loud playing kids have needs for that too. It's all a balancing act.
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hsmom
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| Posted: Oct 19 2009 at 10:29am | IP Logged
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Not sure what you mean by strict. It doesn't have to mean spanking. To me it means being consistent. Like Bridget said, "say, and enforce." How to enforce depends on different situations. I find logical consequences to be ineffective with my dd. I usually have to up the anti. I don't think consequences in real life are always logical either.
If you have time,I highly recommend A Family of Value by John Rosemond. It's probably at your library. Just my $.02 worth.
hsmom
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ALmom
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| Posted: Oct 19 2009 at 10:40am | IP Logged
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Is it accountability on the school work. Sometimes there can be strictness and normal discipline in the house - and too much sliding of deadlines in school work. I don't mean a rigid, unbending, unreasonable slavery to some plan. But for many, many personalities that are driven by goals or in need of very clear structure - adding in some deadlines with accountability and consequences really do help.
I find it very hard to look over and comment on papers in a timely enough manner to make the assignment really productive - so we use a provider simply to have accountability in not dragging papers out all day. Suddenly my children are able to finish these kinds of things. Before, it just didn't seem serious enough.
Ditto what Bridget said. Yelling and screaming generally aren't real consequences and are too easy to tune out or allow the child to avoid claiming their own problems/sins. Responding firmly, in a calm voice and such really helps and having some planned natural consequences goes a long way. If your husband is the disciplinarian and you tend to be wimpy - then put yourself accountable to him and when the children press you model the example of obedience. I'm not saying to do this in a slavish way. Here is an example: I have a tendency to just do chores myself because it is easier, I get worn down from always asking and I don't have time to keep reminding . All of our children are old enough to remember a few chores (or at least 1 or 2) without a lot of reminders and most can do quite a bit). We both know and agree that the children need to do chores - not only to help me, but for their own character development and learning. I tend to be a bit wimpy on this area, making excuses and trying to keep all happy. I work really hard at remembering to be firm about this, but when I see things slipping, I have a private conversation with dh. We come up with a strategy together and then he announces this at sometime when we are all together. I know the children have heard him say this in front of me - and they know I've heard what dad said. When I feel wimpy, I can state a simple fact - You know we agree on this and dad is expecting us to do so and so. We cannot change this without talking to dad first. I'm not blaming dad, just reminding the children that we have a joint decision that cannot be unilaterally ignored by one of us - and reminding myself at the same time to persevere, to be calm and firm with the consequences. It helps me to both be consistent and firm and calm and avoid the blowing up.
Janet
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 6:40am | IP Logged
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I've been thinking about this situation and reading the above posts with interest. I think the main problem is consistency. Often when a child misbehaves or is disobedient, I have a hard time coming up with a suitable consequence. So, sometimes they get away with it and sometimes they don't, depending on how the day has gone.  I've thought of making an if/then chart, but I think it would be hard to list all the "ifs" and the degree to which those "ifs" were committed! Has anyone tried something like this?
I'm thinking this might go along with the "crowd management" concept that Bridget talked about.
Janet, I could have written your sentence: "I tend to be a bit wimpy in this area, making excuses and trying to keep all happy"! I like your idea of bringing your husband into the picture. I need the accountability and I know if I asked my dh to help me be more consistent he would support me in any way.
I feel like I should add here that my children are not terrible kids! They are all kind hearted and for the most part I think they want to do the right thing. They aren't disrespectful in that they would never sass me or even think about hitting me. It's more of a "covert disobediance" if that makes sense.
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 6:56am | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
Also, again a matter of appropriateness.. when kids are runnign around playing a game and not destroyign things.. as long as you're ok with the noise level (especially if it's occationally not continuously) then it may not be inappropriate for those kids to be allowed to play that way. Especially if they're supposed to be playing and not working Your home is not the library after all.
I would look look at is if I was consistent with things that I knew should not happen. But not necessarily choose to take on more things that I didn't personally feel were necessary even if other people do them. I know I allow more noise and roughhousing than others might and that's ok.. those others don't live in my house.
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This really spoke to me Jodie. With 4 boys and one girl, my house is a bit rowdy. I grew up with all boys so I'm used to that level of rowdiness. I had a friend stop by the other day and I could tell she wasn't used to the level of rough-housing that we are used to. I know I allowed her comments to bother me, but I have to remember she has just one boy, and he seems to be much more gentle in nature than my boys are.
For the most part, I require my kids to rough house outside, but I do allow some things out there that I know other moms don't. For example, my kids climb trees and we have a trampoline. They also play more on top of the swing set then they do in the swings themselves. I grew up with this, so I'm okay with it. My kids get their share of bumps and bruises, but we've never had a broken limb, concussion, or anything else that is serious.
My husband sees the rowdiness of my boys as a blessing and feels like we just need to make sure we direct that um, "zeal", in the right direction. I agree. So I guess I'm trying to say I know I need to make sure the disobediance I want to discipline is actually disobediance, and not just rowdy, active boys being rowdy and active!
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Becky
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Bridget
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 8:01am | IP Logged
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Becky, I recently saw this If/Then Chart that I liked very much.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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ALmom
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 7:26pm | IP Logged
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Hey, Becky, send your boys over to my house, they'd have a blast with my boys. Yep, I know what you mean - 4 boys in a row can get very, very rambunctous and I often allow some rough housing inside, especially when the weather has been intolerable for a long time and we are experiencing exuberant stir craziness. My big rule is that they stop instantly when I ask. I have noticed that dynamics change if we have outsiders over though so I generally require outside play outdoors when it is more than our family unless it is someone we know very well whose children are used to the same "you have to be able to stop your wildness on a dime if I ask". Otherwise it can just be too much.
When you are calm and just matter of fact disciplining you really are not judging motives so much. The boys know if they have muddy shoes, they take them off at the door. Failure to do so is not generally active disobedience but habitual forgetfulness. Either way, I simply remind them and point out the mess that they clean up. If it persists, next chore rotation - they mop the floors. When they are in charge of floor mopping, they suddenly become annoyed at the inattentiveness and mess that is left for them to clean up and they remember better. We call a lot of our discipline, "memory work". Sometimes I go a bit too far and if you want to hear a hysterical story you have to ask my dc about my hair-brained sign out sheet. A clear example of how it helps if I consult dh first -this was one of those choleric gut reaction rules I imposed and dh went along with till it hit me how ridiculous I was. - What a good sport he was. I wonder if he'd have pulled me aside to talk to me if I hadn't come to the realization of its stupidity on my own. Now it is a family joke.
Janet
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: More strict?
