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JennGM
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| Posted: July 09 2009 at 9:10am | IP Logged
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The habit we're working with ds 5 1/2 is prompt obedience -- he needs to answer/act immediately at the first time he hears the directions. It's going slowly, but I'm aware I have to reinforce the habit, and not wait until the 5th time to react. Vigilance is tiresome.
I know he's a typical boy in so many ways. He gets wholly absorbed in his thoughts and reading and playing, and so enthusiastic.
The issue I'm now concerned with is when we state "we don't do such and such" I find I have to repeat the instructions, over and over again (day-to-day, hour-to-hour). Minor examples: don't play with the cushion on your chair at the dinner table (every meal he tries to do it -- I think the answer would be to remove the cushion); no bouncing balls in the house except basement; don't put holes in your pants on purpose...
What is it that I'm missing that he can't make the connection if he's corrected for doing something it means he shouldn't do it at anytime, not just THAT time? I do state that it's never allowed.
Do I have to isolate each offense and find ways to reinforce to not doing it (I guess an example I'm thinking is the thread on tipping chairs.)? I'm just exhausted thinking we could be here forever.
Or is this just young boyhood?
How do I help him without becoming a nag?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: July 09 2009 at 9:20am | IP Logged
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Several of the things you mention are things he may not even be thinking of while doing it.. like playing with the cushion or I assume poking at holes in his clothes and making them bigger.. busy fingers, but brain isn't really engaged 
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KackyK
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| Posted: July 09 2009 at 9:29am | IP Logged
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I've been having my boys repeat to me the instruction I just said.
So I'd say "Remember we are not allowed to play with the cushion. Did you hear me?" (they always shake their head yes) "Now what did I tell you?"
Then they repeat it...sometimes, they actually didn't hear it right the first time I'm discovering.
Then when they do said action again, I say "What did WE just say, YOU even said it!" And usually they say "OH yeah" and smile sheepishly and stop.
This doesn't always work so neatly, but it's getting there.
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hylabrook1
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I think Jodie has it right - most of the time it's just kind of mindless, not at all defiant. This is fairly typical of children his age - boys and girls. Not in a punitive way, but if you really don't want something done,remove the temptation. No cushion on his seat, balls don't even come upstairs, etc. Maybe after a while put the cushion back on, work on that one thing, then re-introduce something else a few weeks later. Even though he probably understands what you want, he might be having a little difficulty with impulse control. IMHO this is pretty standard for someone his age.
Peace,
Nancy
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Mary Chris
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| Posted: July 09 2009 at 11:02am | IP Logged
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Long long ago a fellow LLL leader told me you have to repeat something 200 times before it sticks. I think they might have low-balled that number....I'd add a few more 0's. 
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Willa
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The picking holes and playing with the cushion sound like sensory behaviors (my kids do these things too).
It can happen when the child is craving extra sensory input. While addressing the habit by removing the opportunity (eg putting the cushion away for a few days) you can work in a positive direction by providing extra tactile and motor input.
There are some suggestions for sensory diet here -- different children respond to different things -- try a few and see what seems to help.
I don't live by this consistently, but my rule of thumb would be that if you have to remind a child a bunch of times, reminding isn't working. So while continuing the verbal instructions, it can be helpful to work against the habit in a direct way.... like when you see him picking holes in his pocket, work on a shoe-tying lesson or a penmanship exercise -- just a top-of-the-head type suggestion, you may think of others. That retrains the brain.
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Maryan
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| Posted: July 09 2009 at 11:55am | IP Logged
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These are things with I I wrestle all the time!
Will that book looks interesting -- thanks for the recommendation!
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Maryan
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KC in TX
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Mary Chris wrote:
Long long ago a fellow LLL leader told me you have to repeat something 200 times before it sticks. I think they might have low-balled that number....I'd add a few more 0's.
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I'd add those extra zeros too.
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Martha
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| Posted: July 09 2009 at 4:18pm | IP Logged
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well let's see at least once per day per kid...
because the others NEVER hear, no you have to tell each one individually!
...for the next 18 years...
if you're lucky to hear tell from other moms...
...you'll have to repeat it approx 19,710 times.
give or take a few 100 I'm sure
but at that point who notices a couple hundred?
look on the bright side, you're probably a good 2190 in already so you only have 17,520 to go!
from a mom whose had a long day of this to another 
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CrunchyMom
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I am loving all the literal answers. I'll tell ya what, though, 200 sounds a whole lot better than 19,710 or even 19,610.
And then what about the things that you never thought to tell them? That's the tricky ones. The ones where you say, "didn't you know..." and they just look bewildered! Or the rules you want to be sure they never break, only you're afraid to tell them cause it might give them ideas. That would make a whole thread. Rules you never thought you'd have to make...
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stefoodie
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Argh. I wish I had answers for you, Jenn. I really do. I have the same questions instead  and my boys are 10 and 13.
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donnalynn
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One thing that has helped me is to phrase rules whenever possible in the positive - for instance for the ball - I would remind ds that bouncing balls are for outside - that helps tell him what *to do* rather than focusing on what not to do. When running isn't appropriate (library, church) I remind "walking feet!" instead of saying "don't run"; "inside voices" instead of "don't yell" - things like that.
Very often with boys (especially under 7) I think you need to follow up with some kind of physical action - talking just doesn't seem to be enough - so if he's playing with his seat cushion you might walk by and place a hand on the cushion and put it back in place or place a hand on his hand to physically engage him in what you are saying.
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anitamarie
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We were struggling with this frustration here. One thing that occurred to me was that everything we say and do is external to them. It takes a loooonnng time to internalize, especially since they don't always see a reason, or enjoy the behavior. Sometimes, the reminding is a gift we give our children so they can learn whatever it is we are trying to give them. Does that make sense? I have just accepted that a lot of what comes from me will click when they are adults. That seems awfully far away some days.
Also, with it being external, it can be hard to switch agendas for them, since they are engaged and involved in what they are doing.
Sometimes the reminding does stick. A year after I started reminding my son to take his allergy medicine and brush his teeth at shower time, I realized he was saying yes, he'd done it, every time I asked. Now I try to focus on the successes.
Same kid chewed the collar of his shirt for 4 years running, though. No amount of reminding did any good.
Couldn't really take away the shirts. Just bought cheap shirts and waited it out. We did still remind.
Steve Wood, who I don't always agree with, recommends that instead of asking a child to stop doing something, take it away the first time. In fact, he uses the bouncing ball example. If they are bouncing a ball, take it and say " We don't bounce balls in the house, you can have it back tomorrow." I have tried this with some dealbreaker behaviors and it is very effective.
God Bless,
Anita
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Angie Mc
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I haven't read replies, Jenn, but wanted to share quick tips that have helped me with my boys. When they don't listen the first time, I ask, "Are you trying to ignore me?" When they were little I remember one answering, "Yes" but most of the time they simply aren't paying attention and reply "No" and get back to it. I ask, "Are you trying to make me angry?" "Are you trying to damage your - fill in the blank - ?" Also, it helps me to ask them to repeat, "What did I just say?", especially if I have given a directive but they don't look tuned in. (Often they don't look tuned in but they are, I guess that's why I ask a lot of questions!)
Honestly, I just didn't have the need or desire to have my little boys - even bigger boys for that matter - to listen the first time, every time. I just want them to take me seriously (which they do) and for them to learn how to listen with minimal reminders. Once they get older, I'm known to say, "I won't ask again." That's step one of a "3 strikes you're out" stragegy here. Strike 2 costs you a buck. Strike 3 costs a big personal consequence. I can't remember the last time one of my older boys got to step 3, so they've become good listeners somehow  .
Love,
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doris
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Interesting thread on a topic I struggle with, too.
Fabulous link from Willa on sensory issues. Bells going off all over the place here (or they would be, if I hadn't got newly-discovered sensory issues myself ).
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anitamarie
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One other thing came to mind. My sister-in-law was given this gem. Boys need you to get down on their level and look in their eyes when you are talking to them. Then have them repeat. When I do that with my boys it works wonders. I just have to remember!!
Anita
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JennGM
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| Posted: July 13 2009 at 2:23pm | IP Logged
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I really appreciate all the answers, advice, and just reassurance for my sanity. Even though you feel like it's normal behavior, there are some days when you just need some affirmation.
Applying a lot of these ideas now. Thanks so much!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: How Often Do I Have to Repeat?
