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teachingmyown
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| Posted: June 01 2009 at 10:17pm | IP Logged
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I am at a loss in dealing with my seven year old daughter. She is number five of eight. Forgive me if this is long, but I would like to try to give you all an accurate picture of her.
She spoke clearly by age 15 months. She taught herself to read at four. She is very smart and loves workbooks. She seems more analytical and less creative/artsy than her 9 yr old sister. She is very funny and enjoys solving any kind of problem. She loves reading aloud and is very hurt when the older kids don't want her to read aloud to everyone during our read-aloud time.
She likes to help me type or shop online. She even insists on helping me when I am doing our bills. When I cook she reads the cookbook to me. When I shop, she carries the list and reads it off to me.
She loves to read and to tell me about it. She also loves to converse with other adults. She and her 9 year old sister are very close, but really don't have that much in common. When we are out places, like baseball, she will play games with other children fine, but often goes back to sitting with one of the moms who likes to listen to her talk and will chat with her about books and such. I see her as the perfect only child, very intelligent, preferring adults to children and really wanting full attention. Instead she is in the middle of a large family.
One thing that she does is when she seems overwhelmed or if she is working hard at her schoolwork, is to make a buzzing noise and wave her arms in the air. She seems totally unaware that she is doing it. Although, I think that sometimes when we say something she starts doing it more intentionally.
She refuses to help with any chores. She ignores us and will sit and read. I have tried taking her by the hand and "helping" her pick things up. I have tried telling her specifically what to pick up. I have tried giving her her own "area" for which she is responsible. We have withheld treats, we have tried punishments (put in room, spanked(which really doesn't work, anyway), taking her book away, etc), we try ignoring her. The other kids get so mad and I don't know what to do.
Here are some specific examples of behavior:
At Mass, she will look up each hymn (they are listed on a board) and mark the pages, she will find the readings and get them ready. She also has her Mass book. She is more concerned during the Mass with making sure she is on the right page and has the next hymn open. She will sing with gusto and seems to be looking around while doing so. But by the homily, she starts to fall apart. She tells us she hates Mass and most of all, hates the homily. She will start flopping around on the seat.
We had a family come by the other day and they had a little boy around three. He wanted to play on the trampoline, so he got on with my 3 yr old, 5 yr old and my 7 yr old. She was bouncing too hard and I kept asking her to be more careful of the little people. She seemed to be showing off for the other mother. She would not stop the bouncing so I told her I would need to take her off. She got off and said she hated babies. She walked away and then came back and started kicking me. It seemed to me that I embarrassed her. But I couldn't allow her to endanger the other children. 
Often, when we go to check the mail, (it is a fairly long walk) she will run ahead of her sisters and get everything out of the mailbox even though she knows that it will make the 3 yr old and 5yr old scream.
Most of the time she is very pleasant and well-behaved. The biggest conflict is daily chore time. I don't want to make her sound like a horrible child. She isn't. She is brilliant, funny and in some ways very mature. But I know she is unhappy about something which is causing her to not obey. Times like these I really struggle with guilt about meeting the needs of so many little people. The rest of the kids get pretty mad and aren't very kind or reserved when telling her how they feel. So, I am battling that, while I do understand how they feel.
I am sorry this is so long. I am just trying to throw out as much information as I can. It kills me to have a child that I feel that I am failing and I need some fresh perspective. Or even just some prayers!
Thanks in advance!
ETA: one other thought that I just had was that when she was a baby and toddler she was her biggest brother's favorite. We called her Charlie's baby because he doted on her. Now he isn't around much and when he is, he pays attention to the baby and 3 yr old and not her. His friends also pay attention to the little kids or the big kids but not the middle ones. This could be adding to her problems.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: June 02 2009 at 9:59am | IP Logged
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Certain things about your daughter remind me of my oldest: more comfortable talking with adults than children her own age, likes to show off in front of other adults, poor impulse control, when embarrassed likely to resort to hitting.
She could be having a little "middle child" syndrome, and she may feel slightly abandoned by her big brother. Perhaps you can talk with the big brother about giving her some more attention, or since she is reading and writing, keeping up some sort of correspondence with her.
Some of the rest just seems like it could be a temperament issue. I think I would just have to figure out which of her "habits" (like disobeying) truly need to be corrected and which ones she needs time to outgrow (buzzing, waving arms).
As for her relationship with the other kids, I would be very careful how you handle it. If she feels increasingly alienated or like the "bad child", she might start to grow into that label. I would review "Siblings without Rivalry". I would also try to correct her as privately as possible and make the other kids stay out of it as much as possible. If they're mad that she's not doing her chores, I would make it clear that it's an issue between you and her and none of their business.
And why will they not allow her to do the reading if it's read-aloud time? Does she do it poorly? Or is she expecting to do it every time? I suspect that is something that is really important to her...she is craving the attention, the thrill of performance.
I hope others have more/better advice. These are just thoughts that came to mind.
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LucyP
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| Posted: June 02 2009 at 10:07am | IP Logged
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I'm wondering whether at Mass you could harness her problem solving mind and her interest and facility with words by getting her to do a word search/cross word of words in the gospel reading, or take notes, or tick words each time Father says them, something like that. It means some more work for you beforehand, i suppose, which can feel exhausting, but I wonder if it would connect her to the homily in a way which was meaningful for her.
With chores, if she has a mental block of some sort about the need to do them or how to do them, and has not responded to your efforts, could she have another activity that would get her working with/for those who were doing chores - making a simple snack and drink for the workers or something like that? So she was doing something and you did not have the constant battle?
With all these behaviours, I suppose one thing is the notion of sacrifices. My five year old is learning about sacrifices and has some beads, and we talk a bit about how the work. For a bright child it might be something she can latch onto - and maybe reading about St Therese could be a way in for her.
I guess none of this is a help, but as a mama who often feels at a loss with my own dc and their deep entangled needs, I didn't want to read and run. I will remember you in my rosary intentions.
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pilotswife
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| Posted: June 06 2009 at 8:37am | IP Logged
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Considering your daughter spoke and read so early, have you thought about the fact that she may be gifted (rather than just simply smart). Most people don't realize the extra challenges a gifted child presents. One would think they are easy to parent/teach because they are so smart and "beyond their years". When in fact, they could have certain personality traits, related to that intelligence, that are hard to handle. Especially when we expect more from them because they are so smart. We forget their true ages and the behaviors associated with that age because they seem so mature in other ways.
My son is also 7 and gifted. He is fairly easy to teach because he reads so well, is enthusiastic about learning and he catches on quickly. His behavior and emotions are often a challenge though. Gifted children tend towards perfectionalism, which may cause them to not want to attempt something they think they may be less than perfect at. It can also cause them to try extra hard to get positive attention from others, esp adults, because they want to praise for the things they can do well. My son talks to whomever will politely listen, for hours, and doesn't understand when it would be polite to leave that person alone. He is also over-exhuberant about things he does in front of others because he is proud of his accomplishments (like your daughter on the trampoline). And when he, instead, gets in trouble for something like that, he is likely to be overdramatic in his negative response. Those negatives vary depending on his stage at the time. Right now, he is likely to say things like " I can NEVER do it right...I'll NEVER get better...I'll NEVER go to heaven...I guess I have to always be punished". None of which is true, nor do I ever tell him that stuff. Just his overactive mind taking it to the extreme. That need for positive attention and desire for perfection may also be why your daughter always wants to read aloud in front of others. It is something she is good at and wants to kind of show off. Her place in the family may be adding to it, with middle child syndrom adding to her desire to stick out from the crowd.
My son doesn't generally have trouble with chores, but I do have to make sure they don't completely interfer with his free time....otherwise he gets dramatically sad that he will "never" have time to read or invent his creations.
Gifted kids are also ridiculously sensitive.
You may enjoy reading "A Parent's Guide to the Gifted Child" by James T. Webb. Some chapters are extremely insightful as to a gifted child's personality traits and various ways to deal with them. It at least gave me peace of mind to understand that these behaviors I saw as "abnormal" compared to other kids, were actually normal for gifted kids.
Sorry for the length of this. I hope some of it helps. Keep your head up and know that you are doing a great job...the fact that you have searched for help shows how much you love your children and want the best for them.
God Bless!
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teachingmyown
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| Posted: June 06 2009 at 4:47pm | IP Logged
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My time has been short lately, but I wanted to thank you ladies for your kind words and advice. It is good to know that others struggle with similar things. I definitely think it is a gifted/maturity thing. I appreciate the ideas for working around some of her issues such as Mass and chores. Often, I just come up blank when facing her behavior.
Barbara, I have put the sibling book on hold. The reaction of her siblings certainly fuels the fire. I have gone so far as to forbid her 11 yr old brother from speaking to her during chore time!
Lucy, I like your ideas for Mass. I think I will order her Magnifikid. I think that will help her channel her energy during Mass. We did not prepare her for FHC this year because even though she has all the knowledge she is not mature enough yet.
Pilotswife, I mistakenly thought a gifted child would be easy to raise! I will definitely check out the book you recommended! Thanks so much. And WELCOME to 4Real!!! 
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Pilgrim
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| Posted: June 09 2009 at 8:27am | IP Logged
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I also think some of it may be an age thing. Our 8 yo dd, doesn't like chores, or being told what to do lately. Says more negative things like, The one above about " I guess I'll always be punished". And even came up with that we like giving her consequences, and really they might be our fault because we are giving them to her! She also can tend to act out more strongly in front of people, seeming to be more goofy, almost naughty, to "get attention". We just keep lovingly disciplining when she doesn't want to do her chores, and explaining to her that life has consequences, and when one chooses to not do what they ought or do what they shouldn't, we WILL be giving consequences. We explained that if we do not, we are neglecting to teach her as we ought, which is our duty. And we pray specifically for her each night as a couple when we go to bed. We pray for all the children, but specific intentions for one who is having difficulty are added.
Sorry, if I don't have any answers, but I know that knowing others are experiencing similar problems helps one to not feel so alone in our problems. 
God bless you, and your dd!
One more thing, missing her brother and their closeness could definately be a factor. One of my younger brothers in particular had trouble when I got married and moved out, 400 + miles away. Relationships are important, even if she can't put her finger on that it's bothering her, it may be. those who are more inteligent tend to have more trouble identifying their emotions, too. That brother of mine, is the more intelectual one, too.
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Lara Sauer
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Molly,
Pray to her guardian angel for inspiration in dealing with her.
In the meantime, I will be praying for you.
Peace,
Sara
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Philothea
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| Posted: June 10 2009 at 10:29am | IP Logged
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I was also very intelligent/precocious and preferred the company of adults as a child, and acted just like your daughter in all the other ways you listed. Public school forced me (in a bad, ugly, lifetime-scarring kind of way) to "grow out of it" by about fourth or fifth grade. Obviously that's not going to happen to your daughter since she's homeschooled, and thank God for that!
I think if you talk with her in a very honest way about how people perceive her behavior, she will try to adapt. If someone had helped me to understand WHY I was getting a negative reaction to my behavior, I would have tried to change it. As it was, people seemed to assume I should just "get" why people were yelling at me or avoiding me or getting their feelings hurt.
She may not be emotionally intuitive enough to realize why her behavior bothers other people or even care ... so instead of focusing on the feelings of others, focus on HER and what people think of HER -- like with the refusing to do chores, tell her that her behavior is making you all think she doesn't want to be part of the family or carry her fair share of the load ... as opposed to telling her it hurts your feelings or "it's unfair." You will be helping gain self-awareness by letting her know what messages she's sending with her actions.
As far as the buzzing, I would tell her not to do it because it annoys others. If she's truly not aware she's doing it, then set a "code word" you can say to her when she's doing it that tells her to stop without calling her out directly and embarrassing her.
I hope this helps a little.
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Gloria JMJ
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I also think thay her brother needs to know how much he means to her. I was very resentful when my brother left home. Even a phone call once in a while from him would help.
The idea of sacrafice beads would better prepare her for FHC too by bringing the spiritual into the tangible.
One of my twins has similar troubles and I've been trying to tomatoe-stake him to resolve them.
I keep fogetting to ask their angels for help  .
HTH,
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teachingmyown
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| Posted: June 10 2009 at 5:25pm | IP Logged
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thanks ladies, I am pondering all your words. 
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Erin
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Molly
My dd7 is number five of eight and she is my challenge too. Wow, like yours she read earlier and far easier than any of the others, one day I started teaching sounds, and then, I don't know how but she was reading nearly immediately. But she really irritates her older siblings, the boys particularly ride her hard and don't cut her any slack. She is more emotionally needy than the others, I really need to spend more time individually with her. Surprisingly regarding chores, although she will never clean her bedroom which annoys dd15 (who shares) she is showing fantastic organizational skills and is devising ways of streamlining the laundry and organising the bathroom drawers.
Having said all this it is my dd15 who has always loved to listen in with the adults.
I'm not much help, just want you to know I totally get it. I guess when I 'fill up dds love tank with more individual attention and time' she is a much happier child.
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time4tea
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teachingmyown wrote:
| one other thought that I just had was that when she was a baby and toddler she was her biggest brother's favorite. We called her Charlie's baby because he doted on her. Now he isn't around much and when he is, he pays attention to the baby and 3 yr old and not her. His friends also pay attention to the little kids or the big kids but not the middle ones. This could be adding to her problems. |
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Molly,
I think you may have hit the nail on the head here! Our middle dd (who will be 7 in the Fall) is very similar to your 7 year old. There is an over 4-1/2 year gap between her and our next in line, so for the longest time, she was the "baby". She got everyone's attention and was the focus among the older dc, relatives, etc. I have seen some of the changes you are mentioning in our middle dd ever since her little sister was born (now 22 months old).
Could you maybe talk to Charlie about it, so that maybe he could spend some time just with her on a regular basis? I always try to remind my oldest dc that the really little ones look at them a bit differently than they look at the other children who are closer to their own age. The oldest ones take on a bit more mystery and just seem to breathe different air in the minds of the litttler ones. And so much more so if that oldest brother was her very special friend at one time.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Help with seven year old
