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Maryan
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| Posted: Oct 22 2008 at 11:12am | IP Logged
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This morning I thought I lost a child (3 yo)... for over 20 minutes. He *was* eating granola bars with his brother on the steps. His brother came in for another granola bar. I got him another one and went to see if 3yo wanted another too.... and nothing.
I wasn't on the phone, the computer -- I was helping a five year old read as they were all in my eyesight. I looked away to handout the other granola bar... and gone.
I won't go into where I ran to look (I live on an old farm with some nearby neighbors); where I was yelling and sending my children, and calling... but I was completely distressed. I thought he might have hurt himself and couldn't answer OR a car went by and got him because it was too windy for him to want to wander too far.
After each place, I ran into the house and yelled and looked again... and checked the phone to see if a neighbor found him. After 20 minutes of this, my previously stuffy nose was running from all the running and as I was about to dial the police, I ran into the living room... and smelled him.
So... as I looked under the couch, he was smirking (not shrinking back in fear) at me.
Now... this is where I need help.
This is the second time he's done this (new hiding place -- I looked in the last one). But he didn't answer... at all to my very loud beckonings in my small house??
Last time (over the summer) I did the "Mommy was so worried! Why wouldn't you answer? We're not playing hide and go seek?" gentle method of correction. Then we practiced: "Michael?" "What?" over and over again.
Well, obviously, that didn't work.
So this time I have him buckled into a seat (with food, drink and coloring) because he showed me that I can't trust him. He wasn't obedient when Mommy called. My plan is for him to stay there for a long, long time.
My mil is worried that this is harmful because it's a fear punishment. She thinks he'll do it again because he's afraid. She thinks I need to show him that I trust him. However, I did that before... and now I don't trust him!! And...I need him to learn that if I call, he HAS to answer. What if I were in a store and this happened?? She has not had a child that did this, but is concerned that he is reacting out of fear. I'm not sure if he's acting out of fear of me -- or just he's ashamed because he's trying to potty train????
My feelings are that not answering Mommy is dangerous... just like playing in streets or playing near the stove, etc. And we have definite restrictions on dangerous behavior.
Any thoughts??
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Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
A Lee in the Woudes
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JennGM
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| Posted: Oct 22 2008 at 11:20am | IP Logged
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I'm not wise and seasoned, Maryan, but I'd do the same as you.
The buckling isn't necessarily a punishment, but a precaution. You have reasons to secure him because he isn't recognizing why there needs to be safeguards. So you have to provide him. With every emotional upset to a family, the children always seem to have some backward or emotional response to it also, and this might be his.
Perhaps the next time before it escalates, call him a few times, ask the boys to look for him, but maybe try a tactic of NOT looking for him actively, but getting him out of his hiding place by starting a favorite activity or serving a favorite sweet. "I wish a knew where he was. Oh well, I guess he'll miss out on playing/eating his favorite thing."
Maybe his personality won't respond, but it's just a thought.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JennGM
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| Posted: Oct 22 2008 at 11:26am | IP Logged
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Because I always have second thoughts when I walk away, remember also this might be trying to get attention, not realizing it's negative attention.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Maryan
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| Posted: Oct 22 2008 at 11:40am | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
| Perhaps the next time before it escalates, call him a few times, ask the boys to look for him, but maybe try a tactic of NOT looking for him actively, but getting him out of his hiding place by starting a favorite activity or serving a favorite sweet. "I wish a knew where he was. Oh well, I guess he'll miss out on playing/eating his favorite thing." |
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Good ideas -- especially sending out the sleuths. Now that I know have a "hider"?? -- I will definitely start here.
And I wondered that too about attention, but because he had a stinky - I wondered if he was ashamed of himself. But then once he heard me calling over and over and couldn't find him... I think he thought it was fun like hide and go seek??? I have half a mind to limit that game to aged five and above!! 
BTW - my oldest? When we would play H&GS, I would count, he would hide and then come out when I said... "Ready or not..." My Michael? He's gooooood at this game. On most occasions, he stays there till they find him.
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Maryan
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Oct 22 2008 at 11:43am | IP Logged
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My initial thought was the same as Jenn, perhaps this is his reaction to the emotional upheaval from the family's loss.
I've got one that does this, Maryan. And, it is so frightening to me when it happens. I can't figure out the motivation for why he does this (thanks be to God he hasn't done it in a while). Nevertheless, sometimes he just disappears.
I have continued to take the gentle approach with him, but I do drop my voice very low and soft to make an impression that I was really worried and that I am very displeased that he didn't call. Having said that, I have made some practical adjustments to how we function in order to keep him safe.
I keep all outside house doors locked. Fortunately they're deadbolts that lock with keys, but if yours open any other way, you might consider one of those really inexpensive latches you can get from a hardware store that you can screw into the door-jam up high. Once I started keeping the doors locked, I knew if he disappeared that he was at least in the house somewhere. I also put a lock on my pantry, and kept it locked. Other house rooms were locked to prevent entry. This kept the hiding places limited.
When a disappearing act occurred, I called him. If he didn't answer, I would ask him to come to mommy and lure him with a favorite book or toy. After a while this started to work, but at first it didn't. At first, I had to loudly announce one very simple consequence of not coming when mommy calls - for us it was time on the "black bench" (think time-out zone - it's a black bench in our hallway). I really wanted it to be more pleasing to come to mommy than to hide from mommy - so there were always two simple consequences - come and read and snuggle or hide and sit on the black bench. At that point, I started sweeping the house, one room at a time.
I'm not exactly sure when he stopped hiding without answering, but he did. I also did a lot of role playing type positive reinforcement..."...because we don't hide from mommy do we J.P.? We should come out whenever mommy or daddy calls, like you do, right J.P?"
And, my last thought is that it might also have a lot to do with the potty training thing....oh, I just read your last post....I bet it is the potty training thing. Maybe when you call him you could say something like, "come out sweety so we can clean up if we need to and then sit and read a book."
Good luck...I so know the heart stopping 20 minute anguished search!
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Jen Mackintosh
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teachingmyown
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Maryan,
I am not understanding the fear aspect here.  Is he hiding because he has pooped? Or is he just "playing"?
I think I would restrain him for a while, and do the same reprimands that you did before. He's three, so he "gets it" but he doesn't really "get it". He can't possibly understand what you are experiencing. So, I wouldn't belabor the point now.
What I would do is strap him in each day when you need to teach or do something that takes your attention away. Tell him each time that you need to keep him safe and that when you think you can trust him, you will give him another chance (maybe after a few days). Then give him some freedom telling him what you expect.
He is SO little! You need to make sure your environment is safe for him. for example, do you have child locks on the outside doors and bathrooms so he can't get out? I know bigger kids often leave things open, but try to enlist their help.
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JennGM
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| Posted: Oct 22 2008 at 12:20pm | IP Logged
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My two brothers were "hiders" to find privacy to do their business. They wouldn't answer until the deed was done. The fear of the toilet took a while to get over.
I remember that my youngest brother would come running if he smelled popcorn. So after your son is done, perhaps the luring will do the trick. Just remembered the popcorn, and thought I would throw that out.
The other hard part is as the parent being patient and positive when they are resisting the potty training. I've been there, done that, and I'm not a winner.  Our son did it until 4! He seemed to relax after his brother was born, which is so strange to me, as I expected some back tracking.
Anyway, digressing a bit. I wasn't sure "I smelled him" was the diaper or just a keen mommy knowing her child's scent (and man, was I getting impressed!). But it does seem to be a double issue -- hiding to do his deed, and then finding it fun to keep on hiding.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Angi
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Since my twins are hiders, and I am a preventative kind of person, I just make sure that all doors and screen doors are locked at all times. This way, I know that they are in the house. My older children also know that unlocking a door is worse, as far as consequences, than hitting someone. To me, it is a safety issue.
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teachingmyown
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By the way, Maryan, big hug to you! We all know that panic. There is nothing like it!
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Rachel May
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Maryan wrote:
| My mil is worried that this is harmful because it's a fear punishment.... |
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My thought is that it's my job to keep them safe until they are old enough for therapy. 
I think the highchair is an ingenious idea. I'm putting that idea in my pocket.
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Maryan
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| Posted: Oct 22 2008 at 3:25pm | IP Logged
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Thank you ladies! I needed help formulating a plan, but not feeling like I was creating more of a problem with my restriction.
I do think with so many little ones -- safety has to be first. I'm kind of building a plan out of all your suggestions! I like the reminder of restriction, building trust, practicing answering Mom's call, and slowly buying back freedom.
Michael had to stay with me until 4 pm. We went from kitchen high chair to living room couch (nap together) to living room floor while the older brothers got privileges of doing other things in basement, etc.
We practiced some and we'll do it again tomorrow.
Jenn, I think he must be hiding to do his business... the last time (which I'm pretty sure was early this summer -- but I'm so foggy that it could have been last summer), he was hiding in the closet trying on clothes... as I called, and called and called. That time I didn't search every room because we are NEVER upstairs, so it never occurred to me that he would be up there.
So I have to smarten up to this child. He definitely is outsmarting me.
And yeah... I'm just jumping to the worse possible conclusions these days. Thanks for the encouragement.
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Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
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KackyK
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When we had our alarm system installed, the best feature is that there is a digital beep that goes off everytime an outside door is opened and closed. It's not amazingly loud at all, but can definitely be heard from all of the main rooms. I'm not advocating a whole alarm system, but I wonder if there is some sort of beeping thing (boy I'm mechanical) that dh can install at each of the doors. Then when you can't find someone, you might feel more confident that he is at least still indoors!
And hugs to you...one time I had my now 6yold ds hide bigtime on me when he was almost 3. I thought I was going crazy...because I was running up the sidewalk and thinking there is no way he got this far, kids were searching the backyard, everything. Then I screamed, in the house, "Who wants a lollipop" and you know what...we heard the car door slam in the garage and he came in from the garage!!! That stinker had gotten into my car (can you imagine how loud I yelled for him to hear me in there???) This was before my alarm system!!!!
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Barbara C.
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I think that One Step Ahead may have some sort of door alarms.
I also had another thought. I have an acquaintance that is legally blind. She has a 3-year-old wear bells whenever possible; usually on her shoes.
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Barbara
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RamFam
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Maryan wrote:
| I'm not sure if he's acting out of fear of me -- or just he's ashamed because he's trying to potty train???? |
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I don't have any hiders, but my 3 yo son would do this. It was definitely about being ashamed. He is potty trained now and it has stopped.
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Leah
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Maryan
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Leah, good to know.
Even more great suggestions! The bells I love!!
For a freaky moment I was thinking dog collar and electric fence... but that's just because I'm vulnerable to anyone else getting hurt right now. Something fun like bells is a much better idea.
And yelling "Who wants a Lollipop??" is my all time favorite!! 
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Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
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Red Cardigan
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Maryan,
I found this.
Maybe it could work for your little hider?
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JennGM
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Hmmm...I'm thinking this would work for my keys and cell phone, too.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JodieLyn
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I use bells on the shoes.. we have one pair of shoes for my almost 2 yr old with bells on them.. some places bells would be disruptive. But it's great.. because I can tell if she's moving away.. it doesn't help when they're still though.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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MaryM
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Maryan wrote:
| And yelling "Who wants a Lollipop??" is my all time favorite!! |
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My only fear would be a child who would hide JUST to be able to get lollipops! I think I have one that would have done that.
JennGM wrote:
| Hmmm...I'm thinking this would work for my keys and cell phone, too. |
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My problem is, this would mean I would also have to be able to locate the transmitter in order to locate my keys .
JodieLyn wrote:
| .. it doesn't help when they're still though. |
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I just can't see a 2 or 3 year old being able to keep totally still for 20 minutes though, even if they were hiding under the couch
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JodieLyn
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Quote:
| I just can't see a 2 or 3 year old being able to keep totally still for 20 minutes though, even if they were hiding under the couch |
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Unless they fell asleep 
I "lost" my oldest as a 2.5 yr old in an apartment.. I knew she had to be inside.. second story, all windows shut, high lock on the door.. but I could not find her and she would not answer.. I was finally down to lifting up anything anywhere regardless of it looking like it could be hiding her.. and finally found her.. sound asleep under a scarf(one of the big square silky ones, not a winter one).. I have no idea how she laid that scarf out over herself so that it was laying fairly smooth.. but that's what happened and you couldn't tell she was there until I moved the scarf.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: What would you do?
