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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Oct 24 2005 at 12:19pm | IP Logged
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He just turned 12. He's not troubled or depressed or anything like that. I just don't understand him!
Two months ago he said he wanted to go to PS. We had lots of long talks which culminated in a job on Fri. afternoons and more classes with the coop. When he was complaining recently about one of those classes, I said, "But this is what you said you wanted." He actually said, "What conversation about public school?"
In a previous thread here I shared how he was so disappointed to not be able to attend Conquest. After one meeting, he says its boring now, and doesn't seem to want to go.
Today we had a talk about school. He tells me he could care less about me reading aloud or doing any of the interactive or CMish things we do. Can he please just have a list to do completely independently so he can just do it and be done. I'm thinking now, "Well heck, why don't I just sign him up for Seton then and call it good!"  Then again, he may change his mind in two weeks and not remember telling me that in the first place!!! I'm so frustrated I could just scream.
I honestly don't mind if he wants to learn more independently and traditionally. As long as he is learning and is happy, thats all that matters to me. I just don't know if its what he really wants since he keeps changing his mind.
He's not a big talker when it comes to feelings and things like that. He's naturally a fairly private person. I sometimes wonder if he has a clue what he is even communicating to me...maybe he is saying one thing but meaning another? Or maybe he's just changing his mind?
Sigh...Please tell me middle school aged boys are just weird like this and I'm not the only one???
~Books
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Sarah
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| Posted: Oct 24 2005 at 1:00pm | IP Logged
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He's 12. No more to be said. In fact if you left that detail out and told me that story, I'd say, let me guess-11 or 12? Its a really hard time for some kids.
It can be so frustrating when you are trying to provide a creative education and they don't appear to give a darn. My son told me his favorite subject was spelling. Spelling? You mean when I say that word and you write it? What about when I read to you, when we discover nature together, when you read about fascinating details or characters, when we learn the truths of the Catholic faith, when we draw, read poems, (you get the point!).
Don't get down. I think this is common with boys, especially. Maybe switch gears and read something different. Then again, remember, he doesn't have to love education. He's not your friend, he's your son, and he doesn't really have a choice because he doesn't know better than you do. That's life. Homeschooling Moms are always hard on themselves if their kids don't like a subject. If its important, too bad. Most importantly, remain calm and cheerful, and if you think its important for his education, he has no choice. I would say it's normal for some kids to be fickle and if he has too much say in his education it may drive you nuts. What do you want for him? Think about that combined with what his talents are, his interests, and what you know he has to learn to succeed (i.e writing, math, reading, etc.) and create a plan. Get it on paper, show it to him, get a little input from him (unless you think this would be counterproductive). And be done with it.
Although I think we can provide a better education than many schools, think about how they work. Do they ask the students if they like what they are doing? Lately my son complains about everything that at one time he liked-taking walks, going on fun outings, etc. We're not going to stop taking walks because he's preteen. I try to just smile, and tell him to get his shoes on. Its possible that kids go through times in their lives when they are just unhappy. It makes us sad as mothers, but don't lose heart. Just ride it out, provide and mix of fun and important stuff.
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Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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ALmom
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| Posted: Oct 24 2005 at 2:27pm | IP Logged
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He is 12 so that explained a lot. Perhaps the angst he is experiencing is too much mom help. He is growing up and one of the real needs is that forray into more independence. He may not even be sure himself what it is he is feeling he needs - just knows it is something. Unfortunately, a certain amount of trial and error occurs for all of us as we search for figuring out how to address the angst. Here are some things we have found that help:
listen without always feeling a need to "fix it". Repeat what you think he is telling you and ask if that is what he is saying. Listen, listen, listen. Ask some questions based on what he is telling you. I had to work at this so the questions didn't put her in the position of me always probing or trying to fix things. I wanted to really understand.
some private space and time - not excessive but not feeling cooped up in a crowd of littles doing "mom" type work or under the mom microscope.
encourage healthy passions (if sports are the big thing - sacrifice on the part of the family to provide that is important. - is it music?, writing?, drama?, horseriding?, martial arts? whatever it is, once you discover it, encourage it by providing or making opportunities that include some interaction with other teens with like-minded passions. It doesn't have to be large group, it can be simply another teen that shares his passion
He may really need more structure as he gets older. My older dc resent being dependent on mom to get school work done and want more independence and freedom to pace themselves but want to have a road map. Sometimes we have to be willing to let go of our "dream school" and respond to needs. Our oldest dd really did need more that did not involve me as much in her program. Even our 11 yo ds and 13 dd do better being allowed to run with a set of lesson plans. We found Kolbe gave us the lesson plans for our hs, while we retained the flexibility to modify substitute and all. If after really listening to dc, praying and discussing with dh some of the more flexible lesson plans this may really be helpful. My dd found the CCM style that was our halmark in our younger grades, no longer sufficient for her. She has thrived on a much more Classical approach as she grew older. Our concern is that real learning is taking place as opposed to memorization - for us Kolbe worked best here, but I am sure there are others on this board that have found other programs more helpful to them. Before deciding - talk extensively with each - or let your son do some initial research with providers and give you info about the programs plus and minuses and any that he might like. Of course you'll have your own set of questions as parents that you will want to research yourself before making a final decision - but they all will speak extensively with you.
We had to learn a little letting go as our oldest grew older - I'm not talking about essentials here, or throwing out our role as parents - but involving them more in the decisions. Trying to more and more ask questions any time an issue came up - listening to proposals they might have, etc. Instead of an outright initial no we learned to ask questions (sometimes we still said no, but it was done in such a way that hopefully the dc knew we were listening to them more as adults and taking their opinions into account more and more). Not that this is different than before in the essentials - just I guess that it was a recognition that they had grown and were no longer completely children but young people rapidly approaching adulthood. Anytime we slipped and tended to treat them the same way as 8 yo or 10 yo, we could see a certain annoyance.
They tended to not know what they really wanted - grew antsy if we didn't give enough guidance and antsy if we overmanaged! And sometimes neither of us realized all this until they were through it.
Hope this helps some. Pray a lot. God will help you through but you may have to walk by faith for a while, especially with the first.
Janet
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Oct 24 2005 at 2:56pm | IP Logged
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Sarah said: "Then again, remember, he doesn't have to love education"
LOL. I guess I knew that. It can feel personally insulting to spend tons of time coming up with a dynamic and interesting unit study only to have your child act totally bored and ungrateful for our efforts. BTDT I think I am over freaking out about this though. As long as he is learning something, I don't really care how he wants to learn it. It would be nice if he didn't keep changing his mind about it, though!
Sarah Said: "Lately my son complains about everything that at one time he liked-taking walks, going on fun outings, etc. We're not going to stop taking walks because he's preteen. I try to just smile, and tell him to get his shoes on. Its possible that kids go through times in their lives when they are just unhappy. It makes us sad as mothers, but don't lose heart. Just ride it out, provide and mix of fun and important stuff."
This is the same child who I tried to do FIAR with at 7 and 8 and he *hated* it...complained about it endlessly. When I pulled out the books 2 yrs later to use them with my second, he came over and said, "Awww, I loved that book...Mom, are you going to make the orange honey butter like we did?" I nearly fell over in shock. I couldn't believe he remembered the book, or the end of the unit biscuit and honey butter treat we had! Maybe they will remember fondly the memories we are creating now, even though they complain about them???? I hope so. What I don't want is him remembering that "homeschool is a drag." I suspect he would hate ps too, because everyone would be pushing on him, telling him what to do. But he would probably care about grades, just for the embarrassment factor. Which,of course, means he wouldn't be learning, he'd just be studying short term for tests, like I did (I got to 2nd in my class doing this, which is a major reason why I don't like the pressure of grades).
Janet said: "He may not even be sure himself what it is he is feeling he needs - just knows it is something."
I think this is *exactly* what is going on. He likes class days, but doesn't like too much homework. He likes to be busy, but not so busy that he doesn't have time to just do his own thing. AND, when he has too much free time, he's bored and mopey.
And when I try to talk with him about it, ask questions about what he likes and doesn't like, he gets frustrated by the questions and feels grilled...even though I am trying my darndest not to grill him, but just to understand!!!
Janet said: "grew antsy if we didn't give enough guidance and antsy if we overmanaged!"
This is exactly what I am seeing, but I don't know how to fix it. Is it my responsibility to keep trying to give him the perfect balance of fun, school and work to keep him on an even keel? I mean, I am more than willing to keep at it, but I feel like I'm working with Jekyll and Hyde...
I appreciate your thoughts about your kids responding better to different schooling methods for high school. I think I see that coming. I guess I'm just going to have to figure out what works for him...and me...I'm schooling other kids too, and need to leave time for them. I already feel bad because my 3 yr old wants me to read books to her and I hardly have the time to do it. :(
This is sooooooooo hard!!! Someone please tell me that its not impossible, because I am beginning to feel like teaching K, 3rd, 6th, being a wife, being a good mommy to my baby and 3 yr old, and getting dinner on the table and the laundry done is just flat impossible...
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Sarah
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| Posted: Oct 24 2005 at 3:29pm | IP Logged
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Bookswithtea wrote:
This is the same child who I tried to do FIAR with at 7 and 8 and he *hated* it...complained about it endlessly. When I pulled out the books 2 yrs later to use them with my second, he came over and said, "Awww, I loved that book...Mom, are you going to make the orange honey butter like we did?" I nearly fell over in shock. I couldn't believe he remembered the book, or the end of the unit biscuit and honey butter treat we had! Maybe they will remember fondly the memories we are creating now, even though they complain about them????
I think this happens for sure. By the way, one of the outings recently ended with my ds having the most fun, after complaining he didn't want to go.
Janet is so right. We need to listen, but not necessarily fix it.
This is sooooooooo hard!!! Someone please tell me that its not impossible, because I am beginning to feel like teaching K, 3rd, 6th, being a wife, being a good mommy to my baby and 3 yr old, and getting dinner on the table and the laundry done is just flat impossible...
I always feel this way.
If we think too hard about it it seems impossible. That's when you say to God, "If this is your will, help me!"
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Sarah
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| Posted: Oct 24 2005 at 3:32pm | IP Logged
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Sorry I messed up the quoting yellow square, but you get the point. Trying to do too many things at once 
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Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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BrendaPeter
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| Posted: Oct 24 2005 at 6:05pm | IP Logged
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Sarah wrote:
He's 12. No more to be said. In fact if you left that detail out and told me that story, I'd say, let me guess-11 or 12? Its a really hard time for some kids.
It can be so frustrating when you are trying to provide a creative education and they don't appear to give a darn. My son told me his favorite subject was spelling. Spelling? You mean when I say that word and you write it? What about when I read to you, when we discover nature together, when you read about fascinating details or characters, when we learn the truths of the Catholic faith, when we draw, read poems, (you get the point!). |
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This had me rolling on the floor! Sarah, you are too much!
Sarah wrote:
| I try to just smile, and tell him to get his shoes on. |
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Works for me  !
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Leonie
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I think growing up can be hard on kids. They feel a bit uncertain about things and it comes out in different ways - wanting to try something new, a bit of negatvity or testing the waters.
What has worked for us is - ignoring the negativity and working on being positive myself, cutting the ds some slack and asking others to do the same, taking him out for a treat and having a heart to heart talk, asking him to rise to the challenge - what he is now helps form who he will become - and aiming for a mix of want to do and have to dos in his life.
Does any of this make sense? 
It also helps us to discuss relevant books or movies or sports characters or saints - for example, when we read some of the Harry Potter books, we talked about Harry's teenage angst and how tiresome it was - and ultimately how this can be a form of selfishness. We all agreed and said "Get over it, Harry" and in so saying, gave room for thought to some of our teens.
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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ALmom
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| Posted: Oct 24 2005 at 10:01pm | IP Logged
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Do you have to keep working at it - (sorry I haven't learned to quote yet). Well - depends. Of course we keep striving to understand our children and try to provide for their real needs. But we do not have to own their problems - I learned that a little late with my first teen. It was better for me to ask leading questions that helped her discover her own answers. Sometimes a suggestion for a specific thing was rejected simply because it was mom's idea and embraced later when she thought it was her own idea.
I now have 17 yo, 14 yo, 11 yo and 8yo, 5yo and 3yo. Yes, Yes, it can be done - it just isn't going to look like it did when everyone is doing neat projects on the floor together and reading the same book. As our older get older, they do more on their own (I guess it looks more classical/traditional much of the time) but to be honest, God knew what he was doing when the olders strive for that independence in learning - you suddenly have time again for littles just when it seems like the house is falling apart and the littles have been so neglected you're afraid they are turning into demons and need a lot of time to just teach putting away toys, etc. You also find that olders do listen in while you do things with the youngers and sometimes you still have moments all together like before (dd told me she is amazed with 8 yo science and she is learning some from listening in.)I have finally learned that I was spending too much time working with or feeling guilty for not doing enough with oldest dc and what I really needed at this point in my life was to be a mom to the dc, spend time guiding the littles and working with the non-readers. The angst went away finally for this oldest dd(I am not sure if it was just getting older or if it was me doing tons less and not stressing.)
Leonie had a good point about smiling and telling them to put on the shoes. There is a fine line in knowing when to just ignore what is a whining/ pity party and when to offer empathetic understanding. There were times with our first that we ended up prolonging the pity party because we kept trying to fix things (ie gave into the pity party). I think the hard part with trying to still do all that interactive stuff is that it is harder to leave the ownership with the dc - when we have an outside helper, I can more emotionally be that calm, advocate who provides assistance when asked but does not fret over the details or feel like it is my duty to hurry up and finish reading whatever book so we can discuss it. More discussion happens naturally because I am not exclusively the teacher. Actually many hs in our area that hs high school will have dad take over the teacher role in high school.
My oldest dd sounds so much like your ds. I did discover that waiting till later to talk made a difference. This dc is very musical/emotional and very reticent with words. If as soon as she told me something that was bugging her, I started repeating/asking questions, she'd get what I jokingly referred to as the teenage look and I definitely sensed some sort of aggravation/angst. If I just listened silently for a while and maybe said some little something that acknowledged that I heard but then dropped it unless she wanted to continue - that helped.
Then at the end of the day when all littles were in bed and both she and I had had plenty of time to reflect, I might ask something. She was always annoyed with me when I asked her if everything was OK. We are both intuitive types and were often reading (and sometimes misinterpreting) each others body language so I had to be very careful. Sometimes I would communicate intuitions to dh and then he would strike up an informal conversation - she would often open up to him easier  I don't know if it is just that dh is so non-emotional and even keeled and she and I were too tempermentally similiar.
Also about the education - there is something about consistency and not changing too often - esp. once they are high school. Please don't get the impression that I am suggesting that we jump with every whim/whimper. We'd all go nuts and the dc would have even more angst because they would detect our uncertainty. One reason I suggested drawing him in and giving him some ownership in finding solutions - it might be a clue to how seriously unhappy he is. If it was just general angst and needing something to blame - he definitely won't put any effort into seeing what else there is. Or you might think it best to keep at things as they are now but begin talking to him about high school - and the possibilities for the future. We have found 7th and 8th grade to be transitional years - still doing a lot of the same things we always have but providing gradually more lesson plan subjects - using the last 2 years to fill in major gaps and requiring certain work in areas that they have never really pursued (in our house this is science - big time problem)
Anyways I really wanted to say - based on your post it sounds like you are doing a great job!!! Really don't get too discouraged - it is all so typical of those transitional years. It is hardest with your first teen - the rest seem so much easier (unless we just have some slow bloomers and I'll be crying for help later). My list of things that helped us were not necessarily a for mom to do list - but a kind of in the back of the mind type thing as a help to recognize opportunities as they come knocking (they will - or ds will go hunting and you'll have some general questions to lead him to discover what you may already have figured out).
It is all very, very funny when you finally poke your head out of the confusion. Even dd will laugh at the times she told me I was ruining her life!
Janet
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Oct 25 2005 at 6:35am | IP Logged
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Hi Janet,
I'm going to print out your post so I can read it over a cup of tea and think more about your suggestions. I think I need to consider more how he would most like to be approached (or left alone, for that matter).
He's definitely of the "I want to complain but I don't want to do research and try to find something else" mindset. I am sure of that, because we've tried that in a few other areas (fun stuff) and he just never did the work. The only thing I can think of that he is so motivated to learn in that he will do the research himself is with music. He's been teaching himself to play the guitar over the last year. He takes group lessons once a week now and spends a lot of time practicing on his own.
Thank you so much for all your suggestions and for taking the time for a lengthy reply. I am so grateful.
~Books
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Topic: Can someone help me understand my ds?
