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Becky J
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| Posted: July 01 2008 at 2:03pm | IP Logged
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I have two kids, ages 4 and 2, and have two questions for more experienced mothers out there.
1) What do you do when your children hit or kick at you? Do you punish them by spanking or time-out? Have you been able to train them to curb their impulses to lash out? (My 4-year-old doesn't really lash out violently -- she does it in a giggling way while being defiant towards me.)
2) If you do time-outs with your kids, do you take the standard advice to NOT lock the kids up in the time-out place, or do you go ahead and lock them up? When we do time-outs, we put the kids in an empty closet we call "the naughty room" that has a gate across the doorway. We leave the door open but the gate locked.
I am afraid that if I took the standard advice to NOT restrain the child, I would only get angrier and angrier with her as I continually returned her to the time-out place.
However, I am wondering if there is some "damage" I'm doing by locking the kids up behind a gate.
Please let me know if you have any thoughts on these matters.
Thank you!
Becky J
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Martha
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| Posted: July 01 2008 at 2:57pm | IP Logged
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I think the punishment depends on the child.
It sounds like the 4 yr old knows good and well she's being defiant and hurting another. That would get a spank on the palm of the hand from me AND sitting away from others and toys. (form of time out I guess?)
Your 2 yr old should get the same punishment, but I'd come down quicker and harder on the 4 yr old as I'm a firm believer in monkey see older monkey = younger monkey do. 
I do not permit locks in my home other than exterior doors. We rarely even shut doors in this house, much less lock them. We don't even lock the bathroom when using it.
I can't imagine she's being quiet or well behaved when put in the closet, door open or not. What do you do about that? Ignore it? It'd drive me batty.
But I'm weird anyways. I don't own any gates, playpens, cabinet locks or anything else like that. Never have so we never had the option of using such things and had to make do without. 
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Martha
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folklaur
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| Posted: July 01 2008 at 3:27pm | IP Logged
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Hi,
Well, we don't spank, we never have. We will hold a child hands and firmly say "no".
We just never thought it made much sense to teach "no hitting" by...hitting.
BUT. I do have to add... I never had kids that hit or kicked. I am not sure what I would do if I did.
All my kids have spent time in "time out." Oldest dd could be put in "time out" anywhere. You just told her she was in time out, and she would sit there (and sometimes cry - this was usually on the couch or recliner) As soon as you said, "okay, time-out is up" she wouldn't even need to leave the time-out spot, but she would be happy again. I know she is an anomaly in this respect . Other dd (who is our youngest) would sit very unhappily in time out, but will stay put also (time outs are usually in a chair facing the wall in a corner.) I think she has only needed time-outs a few times in her life, though, as that is just her temperment. She just is a really, really well behaved munchkin, and wants to please.
Now - my ds. He NEVER stayed in time out (he is also the only of my children who has ever thrown an actual tantrum.) He would work himself up so much though that I would hold him in time out, as he wouldn't stay when he was little. BUT - there is a disclaimer here - this child is on the autistic spectrum (he has gotten dual diagnosis as Asperger's or High Functioning Autism.) He didn't listen as well, but he doesn't understand body language or tone - and didn't AT ALL when he was little. It's better now.
But still, no hitting or kicking from the kids.
My Mom said I only went to hit her one time when I was little - and I thought I was "defending" my older, handicapped brother - all she did was LOOK at me wit THAT LOOK (my mom is an expert on THE LOOK) and I just dissolved into tears (I was about 3 at the time.) Both my girls stopped dead with THE LOOK too. Jaiden never did. It was one of my first thoughts that something was amiss with him. He was never defiant - he was just oblivious to it. (he also never, ever, ever put things into his mouth, ever. Never gummed on stuff, like babies do. That was another thing that had my Mom radar up even when he was an infant....)
anyway. sorry this got a little rambley. 
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K&Rs Mom
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| Posted: July 02 2008 at 9:44am | IP Logged
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cactus mouse wrote:
Well, we don't spank, we never have. We will hold a child hands and firmly say "no".
We just never thought it made much sense to teach "no hitting" by...hitting.
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Same here. Mine do this occasionally, more the 3yo than the 5yo, but 5yo did more a couple years ago. Usually by the time it gets to that, I'm close to losing my temper and need a separation, so the offender is sent to her room until she can apologize and act civilized. We don't do "time-out" in the sense of minute-per-age or a special spot, but when they (or I) need time to cool off they are sent away from everyone until they can control their behavior better. With my older, I did lock her bedroom door about 3 times (a complicated setup with bungee cords because there's no actual lock), but then she learned that running back out of there wasn't going to get her anywhere and I didn't have to anymore. HTH!
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Sparrow
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| Posted: July 02 2008 at 2:35pm | IP Logged
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I wouldn't suggest spanking or hand-smacking, because I think striking a child who has hit or kicked someone is counterintuitive. How does it teach them not to hit if you are hitting them? Particularly for very young children, it's confusing on a number of levels. A firm "No, we do not hit, that is not nice" usually works for us, though hitting hasn't really been an issue in our home. It's important to model loving behavior, that's how children learn it.
For our family, I think at 4 and 2 time-outs (as in removing them from the situation and giving them time to cool down) and redirection are most helpful. I've never heard of locking children in a room, I wouldn't do that myself, seems terribly unnecessary and scary for the child. I usually just have them go to their rooms and calm down. A young child who is acting out and needs to be alone but won't necessarily stay put, I would just put up a baby gate so they can get space safely.
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Katie, blessed wife to Tyson and mom to all girls! Bailey (7) Riley (3) and Rory (3/17)
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mama251ders
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| Posted: July 02 2008 at 2:39pm | IP Logged
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Of course, this is my own opinion, but since you asked. I don't believe in spanking or time outs. I think if a child is acting out, that is a sign that there is a disconnection between the parent and the child and what really needs to happen is some reconnection time-in. In response to defiance and/or disobedience I usually say something like "It seems to me that you are angry/hurt/upset about something. Can you tell me what that might be so we can fix it together?" Once the child and I have had some reconnecting time, we will discuss the infraction and what my expectations are. They are very familiar with "Obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right" and "Do everything without complaining or arguing" We also discuss honoring your father and mother.
I really feel like to teach children about compassion and respect, we need to make a big effort to model that same behavior. If we want our children to respond to the pain of others, we need to make sure we are responding to their pain, be it emotional of physical pain.
A really good book on this subject is "Connection Parenting" by Pam Leo. Anyway, I hope that helps!
Blessings,
Betsie
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Willa
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| Posted: July 02 2008 at 4:54pm | IP Logged
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Becky J wrote:
I am afraid that if I took the standard advice to NOT restrain the child, I would only get angrier and angrier with her as I continually returned her to the time-out place. |
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I think you have to protect yourself from near occasion of sin. I have a flashpoint temper so definitely several of my discipline methods are geared towards shifting the situation so my triggers don't go off. It may not be the best but it's better than a boiling mom.
When I have to isolate a child because of MY temper I make sure they know it's just a cool-down mechanism for both of us, and not "punishment". Then when we're both cool, we can do the "collecting" thing and talk about what to do better next time. I have never had to put up a gate because I tell them that as soon as he's calm, he can come out.
If I HAD to put up a gate I would, but it would be a symptom, to me, that the time-out method should be used sparingly. The way I see time-outs, they are for cool-downs only, to keep a situation from escalating or for keeping a child from persisting in something after he's been told not to. I usually let them out as soon as they are ready to listen again. As punishments, time-outs don't really work very well IMO. I know I'm probably subverting conventional wisdom! I usually think making amends is the best "punishment" especially for little kids who aren't experienced or controlled enough to really have a sense of why things are wrong.
Giggling and kicking out of defiance sounds like a mixture of fear and overstimulation to me. My five year old does that too. He's scared of himself; it's like a form of tantrum. Yelling, scolding, anything that raises the emotional temperature is counter-productive and he can get thoroughly freaked out and still giggle and struggle so it looks like he's just being defiant. But it's a coping mechanism of spirited, sensitive children.
If you can see it starting to escalate, before it gets to the power-struggle stage and you are angry, you might want to try sensory-seeker type methods with your daughter. Rolling in a blanket, wrestling, a crawling game. ... that kind of thing. This is training the will by redirection BEFORE the crisis, and eventually they can learn to redirect themselves this way. They also see that you have control over the situation and are proactive rather than reactive, which is very reassuring to young children.
Sorry, way too long
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Willa
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Two discipline questions
