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Syncletica
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| Posted: June 05 2008 at 11:17pm | IP Logged
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Do any of you have an extremely stubborn child who just does not listen? Mine is 2, and no, it's not just because he's 2. He was a screamer from the word go. The screaming has finally subsided except when he's trying to get someone else's toy, then it also includes hitting. He will not shut up. A Rosary can take 45 minutes, b/c he decides to talk, interrupt the prayers, stand up and pick something up, leave the room, be goofy, bug a sibling, fight over a rosary, get a kleenex, complain about his finger, and on and on. I might send him to his room, but then he'll 'insist' on coming out, or else lock his door, make a bunch of noise or make a mess. I would be happy if he could just sit quiet and still for a few moments. Everything is a fight. He won't stay seated at the table. He gets into so much mischief. (He always has. Except when he couldn't crawl. He was screaming by then, though.) A week ago he dumped the whole bottle of Greek dressing on his plate. I had left to nurse the baby in the liv. rm. All the other children were there though. It drives me nuts! How do you channel a stubborn child's stubborness to positive things? Any specific examples?
I go through my day thinking something's got to change or I'll go crazy. I think I'm failing in raising them. I wish I were no longer here many times.
Bedtime is always awful. I've had enough of them having been with them all day long,no break and no help received, and I want them in bed and staying there. They find all sorts of reasons to get out. They actually used to be really good about going to bed. They'd only come out for a genuine reason and rarely. But now, bedtime is always on a bad note. Too much crying and yelling going on. I get no help in putting them to bed and my tolerance is at 0. Then, just when I need some time to myself I get interrupted numerous times. I can't handle it!
Another problem is circle time. I read about that on a thread here a few weeks ago, and decided to try it out. It went great! On day 1. Ever since then, it's a fight b/c said 2 year old won't sit still or shut up. I can read 2 sentences of a story, he'll interrupt for some reason, fight will ensue, and I might be able to read a few more sentences 5 minutes from then. My husband jokingly said, "Can we put him up for adoption?" Anyway, if you have any thoughts, I'd love to hear them.
eta: My other children are not near as stubborn as my 2 year old, nor were they at that age. And I will get help putting them to bed once in awhile, but very rare...just want to clarify.
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lilac hill
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| Posted: June 06 2008 at 5:51am | IP Logged
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Praying for peace in your evenings.
I can appreciate your need for peace in the evenings.
How old are your other children?
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Viv
Wife to Rick (7/83), Mom to dd#1(6/87), dd#2(1/90), and dd#3(6/94) in central PA.
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Syncletica
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| Posted: June 06 2008 at 12:07pm | IP Logged
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My others are 7, 5 1/2, 3 3/4, and baby is 7 1/2 mos.
Just tried circle time again. What a miserable time. I mean, it's supposed to be fun, right? Stories, songs and finger games, etc. Yet I have to get mad at them for them to finally sit down where they're supposed to. (They all contribute to the unhappiness with their disobedience and inappropriate or untimely silliness, not just 2 year old.)
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: June 06 2008 at 9:10pm | IP Logged
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Syncletica, I am praying for you and your children!
My thoughts (and please know that I say all of this with love and hoping that you will take it that way): I think that acting up in this way is a plea for love and attention. I am sure that your attention is diverted in many different directions -- school, housework, children's needs, etc. For whatever reason, the 2yo needs you more right now (or at least expresses his need more visibly) than the other children. So I would let him be your helper. Keep him with you and lavish him with attention and praise when he helps you with little things. (Hand me this, help me push things in to the dryer, take something to the hamper, get the baby's XYZ.) Demonstrate with your words and attitude that you *need* him and that you love him and know he can do a great job.
My 2nd son was very strong willed/stubborn. I learned very early on to pick my fights, to question myself as to whether or not what I wanted to require of him was *really* necessary. Then when it was, I used a gentle tone to let him know. If he said no, I "helped" him say yes. For example, bedtime. If it was bedtime or naptime and he or his brother would not stay in bed, I sat in there with them until they fell asleep. I did this every day. I took the opportunity to pray the rosary aloud (not requiring participation) while I was in there. They wanted to be close to me. They wanted my attention. I made sure that the attention I gave them was frequent and positive. (If I was busy and couldn't stay in there with them, I'd let them know that if they stayed in bed I'd be back to check on them every few minutes.)
If the rosary or circle time or anything else aren't going well, then *don't do them.* Are the kids truly developing a love of their faith or a love of learning if the experience is negative and miserable or if they can tell that Mom is upset, angry, frustrated? It's not worth it. Instead, pray the rosary on your own. Let them see you praying but don't force all of them to sit and participate. If the 2yo is the only problem, then I would suggest that you pray the rosary and have circle time *only* with him for a while. Or at minimum give him his own special time with you first, and then tell him that you are going to have circle time/rosary with everyone else and that he's welcome to participate too.
I can only imagine how hard this is with so many littles and no big helpers. (I remember well how exhausted I was when mine were 8, 7, 1 and newborn.) I am praying that Mary will give you the strength you need. When I feel especially inadequate as a mother, I pray to Mary, asking her to be my children's mother. Her prayers and aid can help heal and make up for all of the things that I've not done well in raising them. I also pray to her that she will inspire me and show me how to be the mother that she would be to my kids.
I would drop all expectations about school. At this age, they don't need anything formal anyway -- just read alouds (and if that's not possible because of the 2yo, then do only books on tape). Go easy on yourself and on your children. Remember that Love comes first. Work on good habits for yourself, and then for them. Starting with a loving attitude and patience. It's going to be okay. God never lets us struggle without also giving us the grace to follow Him.
I hope that this has helped. You're in my prayers.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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melanie
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| Posted: June 10 2008 at 2:18pm | IP Logged
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(hug)
I have a 3yo boy...and he's been pretty laid back and easy to handle. Then he turned 3.  Yikes,,,
First, I agree with what Janette said about prayer time and all. My 3yo will *not* sit still for prayers either. We don't even try the rosary anymore unless we are in the car (captive audience, haha!). At bedtime, we have trimmed prayers way down...Act of Contrition, Guardian Angel prayer, St. Michael prayer, blessings with holy water all around...even with that the 3yo kind of wanders in and out. If it's his turn to blow out the candle, he'll do that, and he loves to do the holy water...  I just ignore it right now. He's been a bit slow to develop verbal skills compared to my daughter, and so I tend to expect less of him, which may or may not be a good idea...but in any case, I figure it'll be much easier to tackle some of these issues when he's a little older and out of this negative stage.
I totally sympathize with your bedtime issues though. Bedtime has become hellish with him. He takes forever to settle down, and so does the 8yo. They were going to bed in the same room, which became a 2 hour playfest, so we separated them, but it's not much better. My dh works weird hours and is often not there at bedtime, and I am so tired and frustrated by the end of the day, especially now that we have a new baby. I wish they would just SLEEP!!!
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Melanie
homeschooling Maria (13yo), Kain (10yo), Jack (5yo), Tess (2yo), and our newest blessing, Henry Robert, born 4/23!
slightlycrunchycatholic.blogspot.com
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LLR4
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| Posted: June 10 2008 at 3:20pm | IP Logged
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You keep saying you get no help. Do you have no help? Or are you saying your husband won't help?? That keeps striking me - and bothering me, if the father is just not helping, and letting you deal with it always. Some may disagree - but my husband and I are a team with everything -- and when you are at your wits end, or even not-I feel like the father of the children should jump in out of compassion, and parental obligation. We are a very Catholic practicing family here, but we don't really have those wife/husband dutiful roles here in every way. There is nothing my husband, who is such a man of God, doesn't do that needs to be done if I can't get to it.
I really hope that does not come across as overly critical, but hearing stories of Dads like that really gets my goat, when the mother is on the brink especially. So I will pray for you for strength and him for..an awakening of all sorts. I just really feel for you!!
All that aside --- Your 2 year old son just sounds very spirited! I know how it is frustrating when you see that none of the others were ever like THAT! lol. I have one too. I have 4 children, and my spirited one is 5, and a triplet. But he is surely....DIFFERENT than the others. He is the one whom I feel God is using to strengthen me and build my patience. He is also so beautiful and special in so many ways. He had some issues in his first year, and it was in that year that I believe he became a true fighter. Well, I believe that is part of the reason. It's a BLESSING in so many ways. True gifts come of a child who has been through so much. He is 100% healthy now, but I believe he gained a fighting spirit that will actually be very beneficial in his life. But as a child with such a spirit, they are a handful, and take more of you than your other children some days. Sometimes more of you than all of the other put together!
You know, children are born with their own personality too. Some are just stronger spirited than others. I can't say I have any answers, but to just keep trying to find what you need to do differently, to REACH that child. You may be hard pressed to find it. Change your routine. Give him one on one with you. Talk to him differently. Sometimes they need different reactions to their poor choices. Ones they don't expect, to break the cycle. Someone has to do something differently, to possibly change the same old cycle. And of course you can always pray for strength, patience, and for your son...that he will respond to you. Even pray for the Holy Spirit to bring him some peace and calm him down. Some behavioral intercession, of sorts.
I'm a little afraid to post. I hope I offended no one, but I am so blessed and I don;t always understand these marital circumstances. But I do understand about spirited children. People think my 4 are angels, and they generally are very good. But in my world of my expectations (and I do believe children will usually rise to your clear and firm expectations of them), my one son is the most difficult. But I love him so much, and I won't give up on him. God gave him a fighting spirit for a reason, and it saved his life. Now we just need to figure out what to do with that extra energy and spontaneous spunk in our boys, huh??? I just want you to know I HEAR YOU, and I WILL PRAY WITH YOU, and to not feel alone. They are blessings, and this time of their childhood is fleeting....even when one night can sometimes feel like a lifetime. Remember, God knit that boy JUST FOR YOU---He chose YOU to be his mother!!! There is His divine purpose in it all....just as there is in everything.
Blessings and hugs to you....
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~ Laura
Blessed: Mama to dd{A}13 y.o., and 7 y.o. triplets ds{J}, dd{O}, ds{S} and wife to Michael
Our House of Joyful Noise
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Leonie
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| Posted: June 11 2008 at 6:29am | IP Logged
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I am with Janette - I'd drop th circle time for now and wouldn't make the 2 year sit throughb the Rosary. Either pray it when he is asleep or just do a decade or some short prayers for now...For some children, sitting through a rosary or through circle time is too much to ask. But they do grow out of it! 
I've had several who would't go to sleep - for me, it was best just to put them down on the floor with a rug and toys and books and CDs or DVD/video. And sippy cups. They'd fall asleep in th midst of playing/listening/watching - and manyb times yhis woyld be a rest time for me, to just sit with them all, too, and rest.
My younger four didn't have nap times or bed times  - just these "quieter" times that eventually lead to sleep.
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: stubborn child/bedtime chaos
