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teachingmyown
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This is the title of a new book coming out. Apparently it is an off-shoot of another book that targets children in general, How to talk so kids will listen.
I have an awful time talking to my teenage son. I come from a long line of non-communicators. I find myself stumbling over words, while he looks at me with a condescending look. I end up mad and preachy and usually it ends up with me walking away. I try to explain why something is wrong or bad but I think my tone turns him off.
I am just so disappointed that he doesn't seem to be embracing all that we believe, and that he scoffs at my opinions. There is no open dialog here. I don't do much yelling, or even scolding, but I think he senses my disappointment and I just can't make myself speak in more pleasant tones. And I TRY so hard to!
Any tips? Have you read the first book? Do you think that this particular book will be helpful?
I want so much for my husband to have deep, thoughtful discussions with him. All they talk about is sports. I am so afraid there is so much that needs to be said and we are running out of time.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Anne Marie M
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Molly,
The original book is very good - lots of helpful ideas. (It's been quite a while since I read it and I don't remember if there was anything I disagreed with.) The original book may be available from your library - it would be worth reading until the new one is out.
Anne Marie in NM
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Leonie
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Molly,
I really like the original book and re-read it every now and then. I hope the new one will be as good! 
I think its okay to talk about sports - sometimes the sports talk touches on things like perseverence, what makes a good sport, that kind of thing. And its the sharing of interests that makes a relationship - your dh and son may have a bond through sports talk that will help them in their communication over something more serious , in the future.
I really think the sharing of interests is the key.  I know it can be different to relate to teens but I would start where they are at before moving onto more in depth or serious discussions.
I have one son (12), who has always been a bit of a challenge. But I notice this year that he is happy to share more with me, to not lose it all the time when things get tough, and will even accept a cuddle in public! lol!
What I think has helped is my sharing in his interests - I have played games on the Game Cube and Playstation with him, had light sabre fights with him ( and the others!), am trying skateboarding and asking him for tips, read the fantasy novels he recommended and then talked about them.
Hope I am not rambling here!lol!
Leonie in Sydney
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teachingmyown
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Leonie,
Do you allow violent video games? This is the main choice of my son, some are worse than others, but almost everything is a fighting game. It was a slippery slope (like so many parenting battles). I would approve one game, then he would ask for one a little closer to the limit and so on.
So, I would have a hard time sitting and playing those games. His other main interest is hard rock music. Again, that is something I just cannot like. But you are right, I am sure if I found something to play with him he wouldn't see me as so uptight or judgmental and maybe we could enter into a closer relationship.
I guess I could TRY to like fantasy novels. 
Can you tell we don't have much in common?
Thanks for the book remcommendation. I will check it out.
I used to be so cool, I can't figure out what happened! LOL!
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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momwise
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Hi Molly,
I haven't read the book (probably should). But I agree with Leonie, talking with Dad about sports is *great*. Thanks be to God they are both interested in it and are establishing a strong bond with it. It may not be until later that ds will need to trust Dad with a spiritual issue and that line will be well tended and trustworthy.
One thing I can highly recommend that has brought so much peace this past year is the power of the Holy Spirit. I can't tell you how much I wish I had been more prayerful and more at peace (but you can only have the gift of faith if you've been given it  )with my older boys.
I pray to the Holy Spirit in any situation where I need to know what to say. Sometimes words come quickly, sometimes they don't; it's o.k. because I know God is in charge and maybe there's a need for me to shut-up  .
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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stefoodie
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I haven't read a book, but a few things have helped us here:
a) hug them while you talk to them. Sometimes that's too difficult, but if it's at all possible, it makes a difference in how you convey your message, and how the message is perceived. I read this somewhere before but I forget where. But you can't yell when you're hugging someone, and you're forced to choose your words carefully simply by the simple physical contact you have.
b) think of how you were as a teenager and see if you can figure out how you would have liked to hear the "lecture".
also, don't worry when your hubby can only talk about sports. it may be good that your child can talk non-threatening stuff with another parent. perhaps you could ask your husband to talk to him about other stuff in a casual way, or ask what's bothering him, or why he had an argument with you. your hubby doesn't have to give him a lecture, sometimes all they need is another person that's just listening and not judging at all.
c) in our family, sometimes we have arguments that don't end prettily -- BUT the big thing is we never keep grudges and we don't let 24 hours pass before we speak again. if we have an argument and it's near bedtime, i make it a point to go to my daughter's room before bed, and give her a hug and tell her i'm still mad but i love her anyway.
d) one-on-one time is SOOO important at this age. have a date with your child once a month if you can. let him decide what he wants to do - could be as simple as taking a walk around your block, going to the library, having coffee together, etc. if you have a common interest have at least an hour a month where you can work on something. you don't have to force any conversation about issues, etc. just *be there*. have you read "7 habits of highly effective families"? great read.
oh, and pray, pray, pray. i know you know this, but anytime we have stuff between us that can't seem to be resolved, i always ask the Holy Spirit to enlighten her *and* me. sometimes it's enough. and i always remember that column that i read somewhere (Our Sunday Visitor?) about praying to God that He fills in whatever gaps we miss (or something like that). and He does.
will be praying for you and yours.
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Leonie
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Like Stef, I think the date thing is a good idea. To weeks ago, when we finally got rid of the chicken pox in our house  , I took two teens to Gloria Jeans for coffee/smoothies and a treat. Dh stayed home with the others. I just felt that the teens and I needed to re-connect - no, we didn't talk heavy stuff but just being together helps.
Molly, can you reach past your likes and dislikes, to get into your ds's interests - just because he is your ds and you love him? Not meaning to sound harsh , but its kind of like when we honour our dhs or dated our soon to be dh - we trid new things because they loved the food/activity/whatever and we loved the them.
The current game I am playing with my sons is Avalanche on the Gamecube - a snowboarding game. And because they have skateboard lessons and I am learning to skateboard, I was thinking of getting some Tony Hawke skateboarding games. If you look around, you may find games that would interest your ds and you. 
I don't know why but I *do find that a relationship built on shared time and interests can lead to talking about values.
When was the last time you laughed with this ds? Over a funny movie or whatever suits your humour? Probably pretty recent. Build on this laughter. Laughter/humour helps with discussing values and more intense issues, I find.
I am sure that you and your ds have lots of good experiences to build on and perhaps what you are feeling is not really a problem with talking about things but more a mum's mental adjustment, to being a mum of teens and thus talking and relating to teens.
I found that, in the end, I had to be me. I just had to be me while acknowledging that being a mother of teen sons was new to me. And acknowledging that being a teen was new for my ds - I had to respect them and expect the same respect in turn.
As Gwen and Stef said, pray! St John Bosco and St Anthony of Padua have been good intercessory saints for me for teens and good role models.
Leonie in Sydney
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juliecinci
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Hugs Molly.
I love the original book so I am sure I'll snap up the new one.
Also, a really great parenting book that I use just came out with a version for kids! Yes, Your Teen is Crazy (by Dr. Michael Bradley) and it's teen version Yes Your Parent is Crazy! are terrific. Those books have helped me get back my memories of what it's like to be a teen.
My son is into video games and metal music too. One way he and I connect over the music is to look a the lyrics together. I don't judge the lyrics as in "How immoral!" but rather read them for writing quality, imagination, creativity in associations (how they link up one image with another), trying to detect the message and so on. I will say whether or not I like them too, but usually always try to find something worth praising, even if it's tough to do. We've had great conversations about life and love, choices etc. through lyrics by metal bands, amazingly enough!
It's not so much that my son (18) needs me to tell him stuff before he leaves home (in fact, in my case, I probably should just shut up!), but that he needs me to be interested in his developing thought world and imagination so that he has time to bounce off his emerging self on someone who loves him so totally. I'm FOR him. That's what I want him to know, more than how to be a "good citizen" or "good person" or "godly man."
Those are for him to sort out. I just don't want him to feel he's doing all that sorting alone, without a supportive presence in his life.
We used to limit music when he was younger. We discovered that it turned into a way to know more of what made my son who he was. At 16, my husband took him to a Metallica concert and that memory stands out for my son as one of the coolest most intimate times he's had with his dad.
So no real answers, just hope that you can find a way to connect over what he loves even if you don't also love it. See if you can get inside one aspect of gaming or sports or music that you can affirm and investigate together.
Julie
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Willa
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Molly, I liked the original book -- I read it several years ago and still have it around the house. I think the main message is about increasing your own and your kids' awareness that you are on their team, not fighting them. After all, we wouldn't be concerned about behavior if we didn't care about our kids, but they sometimes seem to see it as the opposite. So it presents various tools you can use listen and talk more effectively.
Gwen advised praying to the Holy Spirit. I did this a lot when struggling with one of my children who has now gotten past that stage and is quite agreeable to live with. I would fight with this child, then go off almost in tears because I had MEANT to be patient. THis child knew how to push all my insecure buttons.
But I found that when praying in tears, I often got some insight into HOW I had gone wrong and how I could do better next time. I believe the Holy Spirit gave me insight into how to heal and upgrade my relationship with my child. I didn't always WANT to follow the insight, because I had some pride and resentment and fear wrapped up in the whole thing. And even if I tried to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit, sometimes my nature rebelled. I learned quite a bit about myself and kept falling and getting back up and over time I DID do better and so did this child.
I was myself a rather rebellious teenager and can still remember feeling irritated and resistant every time I talked to my mom. She didn't even lecture much, but I think just being around her made me feel a bit guilty because I knew I wasn't doing right.
Yet, my parents, the home they made, the example they gave and the books I read had a huge impact on me, which in the end outweighed the negatives of rock music, a horribly secular school, and other unwholesome influences. My dad and I still talked, not about how to act but about other things that interested both of us, and that allowed me to "connect" and stayed tied to my upbringing even though I was on the surface rebelling. So I think the sports conversations between your dh and son are a good thing.
I guess I think that your son is inhaling what you believe and the atmosphere of your life, but of course teenagers are at the stage where they have to consciously decide and evaluate -- and that is often painful for everyone concerned
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Willa
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teachingmyown
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Have you all found that you relaxed after your first teen? I know that I am fearful and resentful when it comes to my son. Fearful that he will go astray and make mistakes that cannot be undone. Resentful that he doesn't respect our opinions and that he brings garbage into our home.
I was a horrible teen. I think that is definitely part of the problem. My parents were too lenient when it came to enforcing limits, but at the same time my dad would lecture and preach to the point that I didn't like him. Of course, looking back I can see that he too was fearful but did not know how to connect to me and my brothers. My mother just always tried to keep peace. And we all ran wild.
So I know only too well what an ugly world it is, and it is worse now. I want to lock him away until he agrees with me. 
I know too that we are missing out on something. If I could relax and communicate with him, then we could have fun together and he would probably listen more openly to what I say. I know we aren't supposed to try to be their friends, per se, but right now we definitely are not on the same side even.
Thank you all for your input. I think I will reserve a copy of the book. And I will pray specifically to the Holy Spirit for the words that I need to reach him.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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juliecinci
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Hey Molly.
One of the things I had to make peace with is that my kids will make choices they regret (like we all did) and that I must trust that they will find their way (just like I did). My job isn't to "force" them to find the "right" way, nor is it to enforce my way as their way, nor is it either to anticipate all the ways they might go and hide those options from them.
My oldest (now 18) told me recently that what he appreciates about us is that he knew that no matter what choices he makes, we wouldn't freak out when he shared them with us. We'd listen and help, we'd always figure out how he can cope with whatever the results are of his choices.
That isn't always easy (I'm fairly neurotic when it comes to worrying). But I have found that we've alredy invested our values. We've shared, we've modeled, we've prayed, we've lived what we believe. It really is up to him, now, to make choices and test those ideas out. If he does the testing while we're still close to him, we get to continue to have input (the kind that offers love and support, honest reactions and opinions, not the kind that is repulsed or freaked out).
If we frown on his lifestyle and the things that speak to him, he stops talking. When he stops talking, his world and life are closed to us and all iinfluence is already gone.
It does get easier. My second one is almost 16 and her 13th year almost buried me. So I hear you.
Julie
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Julie
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Cay Gibson
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The others have given some great info. My 2 cents, fwiw...
teachingmyown wrote:
| Have you all found that you relaxed after your first teen? |
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I'm going on my third teen and find they are all so different that each one presents a new experience. Relax? No, it's never a dull moment. But you have to think of the experience as a roller coast ride instead of being shot out of a cannon. 
teachingmyown wrote:
| I know too that we are missing out on something. If I could relax and communicate with him, then we could have fun together and he would probably listen more openly to what I say. |
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You're right, Molly. ANd you have to set yourself up for hte fact that out of 10 things your ds does you probably won't agree or like 9 of the things. It's the 1 thing he did right that you need to lift up and praise.
We also need to be able to ask our dc for their forgiveness when we are sharp-tempered.
teachingmyown wrote:
I know we aren't supposed to try to be their friends, per se, but right now we definitely are not on the same side even.
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Not their buddies...but forever their friends...I think.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
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momwise
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teachingmyown wrote:
| Have you all found that you relaxed after your first teen? |
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I know I did. Actually, relaxed may not be the right word but I know I trust God more and am able to put difficulties on His Shoulders. One thing I haven't relaxed is my standards for our home. For instance I'm still very vigilant about music because we've had some music come through here that definitely put our younger children's souls in jeopardy. But everyone here knows those standards well before they're teens.
So was I Molly. In fact beyond horrible. When my conversion started growing really strong, my oldest ds was just becoming a teenager (poor kid). Fortunately his conversion was strong also but it wasn't due to me; God gave him the gift of faith. Now he has left the faith for a time and I am so much more prepared now to let Mary and Jesus help carry this cross.
teachingmyown wrote:
| If I could relax and communicate with him, then we could have fun together and he would probably listen more openly to what I say. |
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There is also the dynamic between a boy growing into a young man and needing to put distance between mom and him. In our experience making Dad the primary influence sometimes helps (not that dad always gets this; sometimes mom has to work really hard and pray a lot to make this happen ). I think if there were a society where learning was real and not artificially consigned to school buildings for 12 years, some boys his age would be ready to start learning a trade, combined with physical work and hobbies.
You might also like the [/QUOTE] Ask Rita page at CHC. Going through some of her Q&A pages gives me a lot of reassurance and guidance. Frequent confession for young teens is soooo full of grace.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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esperanza
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Cay wrote..
"Relax? No, it's never a dull moment. But you have to think of the experience as a roller coast ride instead of being shot out of a cannon."
I like this...I have tried to be so patient and let God work in His own time with my teens. Watching them turn their backs on their faith is painful. I have a teen that claims agnostic to some peers and doesn't receive the sacraments...but she is reverent at Mass and voluntarily helps her little brothers with prayer time. Life with her has been a roller coaster ride for the last 4 yrs! I remain hopeful...We share many beautiful moments
and for now...I'll thank God for the both of us.
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In His Peace,
Tammy Gonzalez in VA
dh-Johnny
mom to Tara-'85, Noelle-'88, Jeremy-'91, Elizabeth-'93, Emma-'96, Dominic-'99, Gabriel-'01, Elijah-03
and Jacinta-06
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Cay Gibson
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esperanza wrote:
| I have tried to be so patient and let God work in His own time with my teens. |
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I second Gwen's suggestion to check out Rita Munn's page at CHC. I heard her talk at this year's LA conference and she reminds me of one of the Steel Magnolia ladies.
A couple of points that stayed with me from her talk are:
* your child is right where God desires him/her to be at this moment (even if you think he should be in someplace better)
* we cannot avoid the challenges that come with raising children (especially older dc), because the challenges will surely come; we can only learn to embrace them
* the challenges do not define our parenting; it is the way we react to those challenges that define our parenting.
esperanza wrote:
| I'll thank God for the both of us. |
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Definitely...thank Him for each precious moment.
Here's a couple of links that might help your parenting outlook:
St. Don Bosco's Christlike Discipline by Katherine O'Brien Johnston
Educating and Guiding Our Children ~ Letter by St. John Bosco
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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teachingmyown
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I just got How to Talk So Kids Will Listen from the library. The first few pages have been enough to really open my eyes to the way I speak and listen to my children. I am really looking forward to reading it and I am very excited about the teen book.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Leonie
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I really like How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, too, Molly.
I hope the new one is good!
Leonie in Sydney
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esperanza
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Cay,
Thank you for the links...Rita Munn has solid advice. I've been to chc numerous times and have never gone to her page. I read and copied the letter by St John Bosco and ordered a back issue of Heart and Mind. I couldn't read that article that well online and I want to share this with my dh.
I remembered the first biography of a saint I read years ago...It was about St. Dominic Savio written by St John Bosco.
you said "* the challenges do not define our parenting; it is the way we react to those challenges that define our parenting."
..this was comforting to read as well...I have been grappling with such thoughts for the past couple of years. I knew God allowed certain things to take place and I needed to focus on my relationship with Him and respond lovingly to my teens. It's just nice to receive affirmations
__________________
In His Peace,
Tammy Gonzalez in VA
dh-Johnny
mom to Tara-'85, Noelle-'88, Jeremy-'91, Elizabeth-'93, Emma-'96, Dominic-'99, Gabriel-'01, Elijah-03
and Jacinta-06
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Willa
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Cay,
I loved those John Bosco links.
I have been reading a book called
The Difficult Child
It's targeted towards younger kids and kids who are temperamentally difficult -- who have low sensory thresholds, irregular biorhythms, high activity level, that kind of thing. But some of the methods seem useful for ANY kind of child.
One thing it recommends is studying the child for a few days and making a list of things that are bothersome to the parents and then trying to whittle down and define the list according to whether it's a temperamental issue or an actual misbehavior issue. For example, hitting siblings is misbehavior, while complaining about new things may be more attributable to temperament -- I have a child who has always hated changes of any sort, for example, so preparing him ahead of time, and expecting him to be a little stressed and negative about new things have been worthwhile.
When the list of bothersome behavior has been divided up this way, it is further whittled down to the more important issues. For example, liking to wear the same clothes all the time may be less serious an issue than throwing tantrums in the store, or whatever. The author recommends "objectifying" and differentiating real moral issues from just "irritation" issues that aren't really as significant in the long run.
Once the parents have a short list of key things to work on, they can make a plan of action for those things. It's best to work it out in a neutral time, NOT when there is an actual conflict going on.
"Difficult" children are often quite sensitive and are already discouraged by their parents' disappointment in them so the book says positive discipline -- affirmations and positive consequences -- are more effective than negative discipline -- punishments and lectures and the like. That seems to fit in with some of what John Bosco says about the discipline of love.
The book says it's best to keep disciplinary consequences very flat and businesslike not emotionally loaded....it uses the term "neutralizing" I think -- and try to save the emotions for the positive moments. Sometimes kids, especially "difficult" ones, prefer negative attention to no attention. I know I have one child who likes to say things just to get a reaction, so I try to let the "negative" things he says just pass off lightly, and pay more attention to him when he's trying to be constructive.
Anyway, Molly -- perhaps none of this is at all targeted towards your situation but I wanted to write it out because a few of the ideas seemed like they would be helpful for ME and it helps me to remember things when I have written them out
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Mary G
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Cay:
These are awesome links -- I love the letter by Don Bosco -- I think I had saved it last year (when you must have mentioned on another list) but I have since misplaced it ! The H&M link is to a wonderful review that also really speaks to me.
This is one of those that I'll keep near me as my 16 yos begins driving and my 14 yod comes home for homeschooling......
Thanks too for the summary points of Rita's talk -- but are you sure we can't abdicate when they get bigger than us
__________________
MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: How to talk so teens will listen
