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1floridamom
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| Posted: Dec 11 2006 at 9:29am | IP Logged
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I need help, I guess justifying using this book. Someone from my local homeschool group has asked me how I explain Strega Nona to my kids as she is of the "all witches are bad" camp. I'm not sure what to say that is tactful, because I have such a hard time with throwing out the baby with the bathwater! :) Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Blessings,
Monica
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Marybeth
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| Posted: Dec 11 2006 at 12:30pm | IP Logged
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Are you sure she isn't from my local homeschooling group? 
I just say how much we enjoy the Wizard of Oz and that has witches. Pretty poor explanation, but I always think of things to say when I am driving home. 
Looking forward to other responses.
Marybeth
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1floridamom
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| Posted: Dec 11 2006 at 12:44pm | IP Logged
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Truthfully, it's a giant reason that I haven't been as active in it.
Wikipedia had this to offer for Strega Nona:
"In real life, the word "strega" in Italian means something like that of a witch and "nona" means grandmother- hence Strega Nona, grandmother witch. The Italian also have stories about a witch that brings presents to good children on the epiphany (January 6th), their version of a Santa Claus (who is also celebrated)."
So, I passed that on the group; this was a topic on our email list. I told her that even though things seem very black and white, they aren't always. Homeschooling and following rabbit trails is so great and has increased my curiosity about a great many subjects. I encouraged her to continue to drop or include whatever she felt comfortable with but be open to looking a little closer. She was very upset that a "supposedly Catholic author" would have books with witches. The fact that his heritage was such a big part of his childhood and adulthood is where he draws his stories from. Fantastic!
Blessings,
Monica
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JennGM
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| Posted: Dec 11 2006 at 12:55pm | IP Logged
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She's called "Grandma Witch" but it was typical in the past when there was the village herbalist, who could work "magic" -- because it seemed so miraculous the cures, the label "witch" could be used. I guess I view her in that light, a specialized herbalist. And there was so much superstition in medieval times (and now) that there is a crossover into that.
Even some of the old traditions related to saints were superstitious...the Church has always had to correct some abuses. Here's an example: On the eve of St. Agnes, a maiden would eat a "dumb cake" (mostly salt) without water, before bedtime, walking backwards to bed and not saying a word until morning. Doing that St. Agnes will show in her dreams her intended husband. Definitely superstitious.
But witch, dealing with black powers? I think it's a mislabel, and I explain in the above vein when I read the book to kids.
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1floridamom
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| Posted: Dec 11 2006 at 1:12pm | IP Logged
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Oh, Jenn, that is fascinating. I never would have thought about that. Thank you for pointing out the superstition, too.
I think these kinds of misunderstandings happen a lot when the idea is sort of taken out of context. It really is important to consider other cultures and time periods to get a sense of the norms for the setting.
Thanks!
Blessings,
Monica
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Jen L.
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| Posted: Dec 13 2006 at 9:22am | IP Logged
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I don't hate this book, but I admit it is not my favorite. I'll read it to my kids and I don't worry about others reading it but....
Do you think I'm crazy when I skip the part about "the nuns and priests" going to her for advice and healing too?
(I get that she traditionally would be an herbalist, but the book definitly is about the magic - don't you think?)
Please don't lump me in with "those other moms" -- I really want to hear from you all!
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Lisbet
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| Posted: Dec 13 2006 at 9:28am | IP Logged
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Jen, My take on it (and we LOVE the book here!) is that she is kind of the town 'doctor'. Nuns and Priests have warts too!  The 'magic' part is what makes is a great childrens story.
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1floridamom
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| Posted: Dec 13 2006 at 9:42am | IP Logged
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Jen, I agree with you. Sometimes the way things are phrased makes me a little uncomfortable.
What drove me crazy was how this kept going on the local list. Another mom wrote in the following:
I realize that there are differing views on the issue of witches among good faithful Catholics.
Aside from the theological and moral reasons for avoiding all witches cited in the Catechism of the Catholic Church which states that there is no such thing as a “good” witch or wizard, I have two major practical concerns with witches.
First, that my children should not be de-sensitized to the evil that witches represent by seeing them portrayed as benign or friendly in books, TV, movies, figurines or otherwise. If they ever are invited into any occult type activity as teenagers or adults, I want them to recognize clearly that if it’s a witch we don’t want anything to do with it. I don’t want them feel they must discern whether the witch is good or bad. Now a days there is a lot of occult activity that goes on around us, as can be verified by talking with local law enforcement people.
Second, I have learned from the books and interviews I’ve read given by Catholic priests who are exorcists and practice actively that ministry, that having objects depicting witches and other occult symbols around us is enough to attract demons and cause infestation of demons around a person or in the home.
So I am firmly convinced such things are not healthy and for this reason I don’t allow any of it in my home or around us if possible.
Then she sent the following to back up her point:
I need to correct myself here … the catechism does not say “that there is no such thing as a “good” witch or wizard”, rather it states we are not to partake in sorcery, witchcraft or magic.
2116All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
2117All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity.
Fr Fr. Gabriele Amorth, an exorcist of the Diocese of Rome, and author of An Exorcist Tells His Story says that there is no distinction over “white” magic and black magic and says that “,,, magic is always a recourse to the devil.” From this I gather that there also is no distinction between good and bad witches.
Mainly, I decided that I won't carry on the discussion with the local group. I just don't like being made to feel that my choices are leading my children to evil as well as when I suggest something like this unit study to other moms in the group, kwim?
Blessings,
Monica
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Jen L.
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| Posted: Dec 13 2006 at 4:36pm | IP Logged
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I definitely get what you mean about those never-ending discussions that make you feel judged. I wouldn't continue the discussion with your hs group either!
I am very grateful for this group -- i never see the discussions spiral here.
The kids have heard me say many times that "in real life, there are no such thing as good witches". So as far as Strega Nona, using brief explanation of the times, the tradition, the supersitition as age appropriate is perfect as far as I'm concerned.
Good discussion - thanks for starting it!
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Rachel May
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| Posted: Dec 14 2006 at 3:55pm | IP Logged
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Jen L. wrote:
(I get that she traditionally would be an herbalist, but the book definitly is about the magic - don't you think?)
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Yes, but the "magic" is love (is that explicitly stated in a different Strega Nona book?). I like that. 
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onemoretracy
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| Posted: Dec 16 2006 at 1:53pm | IP Logged
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I have a friend who thinks the same thing, not about Strega Nona in particular, but about certain children's stuff. She said she doesn't like Pokemon for kids. Not that I love it, but not bc I think it is spiritually harmful, just annoying! My boys love it though.
At the time of the conversation I didn't have a really good answer, but that all fairy tales have witches and magic etc, so should we throw out all of them? It had stemmed from a discussion where I was explaining why our kids don't watch sitcoms 'for kids' because for one reason, typically they are discussing comepletly age inappropriate topics. Then she said what about Pokemon, Star Wars etc...
I have given this whole conversation lots of thought and I knew what I was ok with and what I was not, but it has been hard for me to formulate clear and articulate ways to express my guidelines. We have been listening to the Chronicles of Narnia and we are now on Prince Caspian. I never read these as a child and it is just so exciting to be experiencing them along with my kids for the first time. I can totally see how the wonder and magic of these tales will equip them with the imagination and openess to the supernatural as they get older. I think someone called this pre-Christian imagination (Lewis maybe?) There is a personal, supernatural drama unfolding around us all the time and I want my kids to have the creative capacity to accept that when they become adults, perhaps bypassing the cynical skeptism many fall into in early adulthood.
I know Strega Nona is not quite the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, but it is similar in that it maybe somehow prepares the child for the 'well, you never know, it could happen' thinking. Plus it is just a sweet story!
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Sarah
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| Posted: Dec 16 2006 at 7:39pm | IP Logged
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Fr. Amorth also writes in his book that well-meaning people seeking relief from spiritual problems (epecially in his area and in Europe) seek "white magic" which is nothing more than "black magic" in disguise and he states that they end up in worse shape because they have further opened themselves up to the occult.
Just thought I'd share that.
However, I don't forbid "white magic" type things. My kids love the Sleeping Beauty movie where the fairies use good magic. We love Mary Poppins who teaches everyone with magic. Etc. Etc.
I do however, remind my children, especially my older children, that God should be who we are always calling upon. This is a bit much for my young ones.
I don't think they're confused. Now if I lived somewhere where good people regularly visited "white magic" healers as Fr. Amorth talks about, I might have a different view. In his book he says that these healers can have pictures of the Sacred Heart, Crucifixes, etc.
BTW, reading his book is an eye opener.
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doris
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I'm hypersensitive to fears about occultism etc because my eldest dd went through a sticky patch of being very fascinated (and terrified by) 'evil spirits'. We don't read 'fun' books about witches or have any 'witchy' dressing up clothes. But for some reason neither I nor the dc have had any problem about Strega Nona -- probably because she's basically just a wise woman, isn't she, nothing more.
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Erin
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Well to chime with a conversation ds7 had with me in Advent that has me now pondering
I concur with Monica's explanation and it is what I have explained to the dc when asked but still...Ds said to me "mum this is a book about witches!?" even though I explained it all to him it still sounded confusing to a 7yr old and he wasn't convinced. I'm now re-thinking from a child's viewpoint.
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4Real Forums : Picture Book Discoveries
Topic: Tomie de Paola - Strega Nona
