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CrunchyMom
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I'm working on my booklist for Third Grade.
I'm emphasizing American History, and I want to assign living books for independent reading to go along with this.
I'm guessing that my son reads at a 5th grade level or so when choosing things on his own.
When looking at preferred resources for ideas at grade level and such (like Sonlight, MA, Jen's booklists, Bethlehem Books, etc...), the independent reads suggested for Third Grade are things my son has already devoured from our shelves, like the Matchlock Gun, most of the Marguerite de Angeli books, etc... If we own a book in this category, he's read it already.
Now, most of the classics I've considered assigning are listed at a 5th grade reading level. Things like The Witch at Blackbird Pond or some of the biographies suggested like Poor Richard... Books on this level seem to be suggested specifically as Read Alouds.
Now, is that because of the obvious reason that most third graders are reading at a third grade level? Or even if your third grader is reading at a 5th grade level in general, such a book would be a bit much for them to absorb (and offer narration) on their own. The length would obviously require more "pages" be assigned.
My first instinct was to assign something of substance like, say, The Matchlock Gun, that would not necessarily be a challenge to read but still has some bite to it, and it would be good for formation in the habit of narration.
But if my third grader is *capable* of reading higher level books, should I be comfortable in assigning those books for independent reading?
And if you agree with my first instinct, any suggestions for how and where to find more books in that category?
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SuzanneG
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| Or even if your third grader is reading at a 5th grade level in general, such a book would be a bit much for them to absorb (and offer narration) on their own. |
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This. It's the subject matter that perhaps would be beyond them without taking it in super small bites and with lots of discussions with mom/dad.
BUT...it IS entirely possible that your son WILL get it....especially with boys and history and action, I think they "get" things a bit more than the girls simply because it's fascinating to them...guns, war, etc.
You could start out with a meaty-book and read it aloud and narrate and discuss. Then, if that's going well, and you think you want to see if he can do more on his own, assign a certain number of pages to him (a small number) and have him narrate----making sure you've read ahead to see what he's narrating, etc. Do this for a week or so and see how it goes.
Quote:
| My first instinct was to assign something of substance like, say, The Matchlock Gun, that would not necessarily be a challenge to read but still has some bite to it, and it would be good for formation in the habit of narration. |
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In this case, he's narrating for the subject matter and the excitement of your studies! Not nec to be challenged in his reading level. There are always different reasons to have a book be a "narrated book."
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| But if my third grader is *capable* of reading higher level books, should I be comfortable in assigning those books for independent reading? |
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Sometimes.....again, you're concerned more about him getting the subject matter. Also, his personality....if he reads a book NOW and then in 3 years you want him to read it AGAIN b/c he will uncover another level of the book, will he balk? If not, then go ahead and have him read it now, and then he can read it again later.
There's nothing WRONG with reading a book over and over, of course!!!! It's just that if he gets to 6th grade and Matchlock Gun is his "meaty savored narrated book" and he's read it already 4 times, then I think Charlotte Mason would do a gigantic eye roll if such a thing existed in Victorian England! 
Because the savored, narrated books "should be" challenging and meaty. Does that make sense? [/QUOTE]
It's been awhile since I read it, but I think The Witch at Blackbird Pond has some content that I'm not sure would be understood by a third grader, but I'm not sure.
*******************
Here's an example:
:: find one meaty-savored-challenging book for you to read aloud and narrate/discuss. This could be a historical fiction book, but it could also be a "spine-type-book" or more informational-book.
:: Find another not-AS-meaty-and-challenging book to begin reading aloud, with the intention of gradually move him to independence as noted above.
:: Rotate through your other living history books that are on the easier level and assign a few for narration, one at a time.
:: And, then let him just read and enjoy the others at his leisure.
Just an example.....you've got different levels of READING and different levels of CONTENT.
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Suzanne in ID
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CrunchyMom
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SuzanneG wrote:
Sometimes.....again, you're concerned more about him getting the subject matter. Also, his personality....if he reads a book NOW and then in 3 years you want him to read it AGAIN b/c he will uncover another level of the book, will he balk? If not, then go ahead and have him read it now, and then he can read it again later. |
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Right. See, my "problem" is that he already read Matchlock Gun, and I WOULD have him read it this year, but I don't want to assign him a book he's already read.
And I did want to assign a novel that went with his history, but I'm not finding a whole lot of options for something at this grade level he hasn't already read.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mackfam
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Agreeing with Suzanne's summary of considering reading level and content. That's pretty much how we do it, too.
This is just me, but I wouldn't put Matchlock Gun back in his schedule. I always, always, always allow a child to voluntarily pull a book off the shelf to re-read as part of independent reading, but I won't put it on the schedule again.
I'm guessing from knowing that you are considering Matchlock Gun that you're addressing French/Indian War? Are you also working through Revolutionary war history? Colonial History? Maybe we could help you come up with a novel to put in his schedule?
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: June 07 2012 at 4:36pm | IP Logged
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You have looked at ALL of these Level 1 and Level 2 books and there are none that he hasn't read???
How about Goerge Washington's World
Would he enjoy This Country of Ours?
:: Bulla?
:: Symne?
:: The Vision Books-saints of early America
:: Calico Bush
:: Priest on Horseback
:: Madeleine Takes Command
:: Cross Among the Tomahawks
:: Indian Captive
Subject matter can be "dark" at times, but as long as he is reading and narrating and discussing, it's they are fine for a third grader. Just make sure you are reading also and know what he's reading independently.
I'm working on early, early American history right now, so these are the ones off the top of my head....haven't gotten to Revolutionary War times, yet.
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Suzanne in ID
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SuzanneG
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Mackfam wrote:
This is just me, but I wouldn't put Matchlock Gun back in his schedule. I always, always, always allow a child to voluntarily pull a book off the shelf to re-read as part of independent reading, but I won't put it on the schedule again.
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What if you think that reading it in the context of "studying this period of history" ..... would add to his understanding of the book and to the historical period???
I think Charlotte would say, no....don't assign it for reading and narration.
But, our NATURE tells us to have him re-read it again while we're studying this time period. It's our desire to "make those connections" for him. kwim?
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CrunchyMom
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Just to clarify, I never assigned it. He just read it on his own. Same with a LOT of the histories I picked up recently 
For history, he's reading the first two volumes of Mara L. Pratt's American History Stories
So, roughly, Term One is Colonial, Two Revolution, Three Post-Revolution (4th Grade, as planned, would be More Post Revolution, War 1812, Civil War)
Since posting this, I'm considering The Courage of Sarah Noble, Toliver's Secret, and Justin Morgan Had a Horse
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Lindsay
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My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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CrunchyMom
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SuzanneG wrote:
You have looked at ALL of these Level 1 and Level 2 books and there are none that he hasn't read???
How about Goerge Washington's World
Would he enjoy This Country of Ours?
:: Bulla?
:: Symne?
:: The Vision Books-saints of early America
:: Calico Bush
:: Priest on Horseback
:: Madeleine Takes Command
:: Cross Among the Tomahawks
:: Indian Captive
Subject matter can be "dark" at times, but as long as he is reading and narrating and discussing, it's they are fine for a third grader. Just make sure you are reading also and know what he's reading independently.
I'm working on early, early American history right now, so these are the ones off the top of my head....haven't gotten to Revolutionary War times, yet.
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No, he hasn't read all those, though some. But many of them are recommended as Read Alouds, not independent reading for 3rd grade, and that's where I guess I'm confused. I was under the impression the Vision books were more along the lines of a 5th grade reading level.
I plan to use some of those AS read alouds, I just wasn't sure if they would be too much for him to read an dnarrate on his own.
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Lindsay
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Mackfam
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SuzanneG wrote:
Mackfam wrote:
This is just me, but I wouldn't put Matchlock Gun back in his schedule. I always, always, always allow a child to voluntarily pull a book off the shelf to re-read as part of independent reading, but I won't put it on the schedule again.
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What if you think that reading it in the context of "studying this period of history" ..... would add to his understanding of the book and to the historical period??? |
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I don't put it in even if it's a great fit for the context of the period being studied...IF....they've already read it or it's been read aloud to them. It's just not an efficient use of my/their time, and I confess, I have never had a shortage of books to choose from so there is always another title to extend the variety of choices in books. That's just me, and it is also what I think CM would do. She would never repeat. It's definitely an option for you though! When did he read it last, Lindsay?
In this case, I'd set up my strewing basket for the term and I'd drop the book in, and for our hour of independent reading time in the afternoon, he would choose something out of that basket to read, and I might even suggest that book be his first. I'd probably invite some informal narrations at my side while I'm cooking, just to invite him to share what he's reading and see if he's uncovering any new layers since he last read the book.
And by the way, I think we're all studying the same period of history next year! And my 3rd grader has Matchlock Gun on his schedule (as a read aloud). Off to check Suzanne's list of recommended books to see if there are any others I could add....
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Mackfam
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| He just read it on his own. Same with a LOT of the histories I picked up recently |
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That's fantastic! And happens a lot here, too! I pick up these great finds and they are inhaled when they arrive! I'm not above hiding some books in my closet so I can plan with them and put them on the reading schedule!
CrunchyMom wrote:
| Since posting this, I'm considering The Courage of Sarah Noble, Toliver's Secret, and Justin Morgan Had a Horse |
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Those are fantastic choices!
Marguerite de Angeli's book, Elin's Amerika is a great fit for this period of history and would work well with his age/reading level.
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Jen Mackintosh
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CrunchyMom
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Mackfam wrote:
Marguerite de Angeli's book, Elin's Amerika is a great fit for this period of history and would work well with his age/reading level. |
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Read that one, too. I picked up a whole stack of six or so of her books, and he read them all! 
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Lindsay
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JennGM
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Mackfam wrote:
Marguerite de Angeli's book, Elin's Amerika is a great fit for this period of history and would work well with his age/reading level. |
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Read that one, too. I picked up a whole stack of six or so of her books, and he read them all! |
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I have to hide books to save them for later. The d'Angeli ones are delightful. Look for Lois Lenski ones and he'll devour those, too.
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JennGM
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And Clyde Robert Bulla. We had a binge of him, too.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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SuzanneG
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| I was under the impression the Vision books were more along the lines of a 5th grade reading level. |
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Well, yes. BUT....if you did the sort of "controlled" program....where you begin with it as a read aloud, then gradually trying it out as an independent read....with you reading along with him (you read the night before so you know exactly what is going on) and so you can SEE and are completely aware if he is understanding well, and if there is content or subjects that he isn't getting. Even if there are, it doesn't mean nec to stop.....it's just time for a re-eval and you have several options.
For example:
I'm in the middle of pre-reading St. Isaac and the Indians (vision book) and I def. think it's a book my next year 3rd grader will read independently, if we can't do it as a family read aloud. I'll read the first couple chapters together and then everyone will go to independent reading. I will "watch" the 3rd grader's narrations much more closely than the 5th and 6th graders, to make sure it's an OK fit for her to read independently. If not....I'll shelve it until the next go around or just let her pick it up from the shelves whenever.
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SuzanneG
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Also, sometimes if there are parts that you need to edit (ie: the gruesome details of St. Isaac's martyrdom) I read those chapters aloud and edit as needed. I keep post-its on the front of the book with a CODE on it.
:: 1-15-21 EX means on page 121 of chapter 15, I need to "explain something" ahead of time.
:: 1-15-21 RA means I need to read aloud chapter 15 and edit something from page 121.
Do I do this with ALL books??? Certainly NOT! This is only for the VERY circumstances taht you are describing....for my 1 child who needs challenging reading but I need to be aware of the content, etc.
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SuzanneG
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How about any of the Ronald Syme books? Dh and I love them and I have several on our reading list for this upcoming year. Your libary probably has a few and used copies aren't too much.
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Suzanne in ID
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Aagot
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Here are some books we have used. Maybe there are some new ones.
D’Aulaire:
Benjamin Franklin
George Washington
Abraham Lincoln
Buffalo Bill
Surviving Jamestown-Karwoski
Squanto, Friend of the Pilgrims --Bulla
Madeline Takes Command- Brill
Father Marquette and the Great Rivers
The Courage of Sarah Noble (PB-Dalgleish
Ben Franklin of Old Philadelphia -Cousins
What’s the Big Idea Ben Franklin? Fritz
And Then What Happened, Paul Revere- Fritz
Will You Sign Here, John Hancock? Fritz
George Washington's Breakfast J. Fritz
Guns for General Washington - Reit
Can’t You Make Them Behave, King George? Fritz
Why Don’t You Get a Horse, Sam Adams? Fritz
Reb and the Redcoats- Constance Savery probably best as a read aloud.
Winter at Valley Forge -Knight
Valley Forge- Ammon
Becky Landers- Skinner
Shh, We’re Writing the Constitution-Fritz
The Lewis and Clark Expedition - Johmann
Lewis and Clark and Me a Dog’s Tale. Myers
Susanna of the Alamo
By the Great Horn Spoon-fleischman
Meet Abe Lincoln -Barbara Cary
Just a Few Words Mr. Lincoln—Fritz
Amos Fortune Freeman—Yates
Robert E. Lee, Gallant Christian Soldier-Roddy
Rifles for Watie- Keith
Wanted, Dead or Alive-Mcgovern
Old Sam, Dakota Trotter-Taylor
Pony Express- Kroll
Bound for Oregon- van leeuwen
Bully For You Teddy Roosevelt-Fritz
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MaryM
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SuzanneG wrote:
| How about any of the Ronald Syme books? Dh and I love them and I have several on our reading list for this upcoming year. Your libary probably has a few and used copies aren't too much. |
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Sounds like someone who needs to be added to the OOP history books - recommended authors? thread. 
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Mackfam
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How about some of the American History oop Landmarks? My kids usually start reading these around 9 or 10, and moving slowly, so I actually like to save them for 4th grade+ reading, but there are enough of them that starting with one now would be fine as long as the reading was ok for him, and he narrated for understanding. The writing is fantastic, and at 5th grade reading level, he ought to be able to handle it. I would probably spread one book out for two terms and approach it as a Read Aloud transition to Independent reading book to see how he does. S-L-O-W reading with a Landmark or Vision because this would probably stretch him a little. I really think they could be ok, judging from your description of his reading ability, but pre-read for him, and don't be afraid to stretch one book out for an entire year if needed. You will probably get the best narrations you've ever heard!
My 3rd grader is at the beginning reading level, but I suspect that at any point he will take off since he's very, very close, so I planned for some back up books in our reading schedule to substitute in for him in that case. I'll list a few of my top picks.
:: Pardon me if these have already been mentioned ::
I was going to suggest the Glory of America books by Ecce Homo Press, but none of them cover colonial periods. Still, keep them in mind as you move forward - they are good books.
The Printer's Apprentice by Stephen Krensky - Colonial America, 1st Amendment, good sense of life of the period, historical fiction
Mr. Revere and I by Robert Lawson - written from the perspective of Paul Revere's horse, excellent writing and illustrations.
Calico Bush by Rachel Field - A Newberry book, excellent writing, tells the story of a young girl who is an indentured servant to a family during the French and Indian War. (this book might be at the top end of his reading ability, but it would be close and it's good enough to see if it's at your library and pre-read)
Justin Morgan Had a Horse by Marguerite Henry - which you've already mentioned
The Courage of Sarah Noble by Alice Dagliesh - which you've already mentioned
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Coming back to re-read your original question:
CrunchyMom wrote:
Now, most of the classics I've considered assigning are listed at a 5th grade reading level. Things like The Witch at Blackbird Pond or some of the biographies suggested like Poor Richard... Books on this level seem to be suggested specifically as Read Alouds.
Now, is that because of the obvious reason that most third graders are reading at a third grade level? Or even if your third grader is reading at a 5th grade level in general, such a book would be a bit much for them to absorb (and offer narration) on their own. The length would obviously require more "pages" be assigned. |
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I think the reason for read aloud designation at this age for a book that is *just within* their reading level is that new, fluent readers can be voracious readers, and they can read hastily, missing good content. And, of course, we know the importance of s-l-o-w savoring, especially when the writing becomes so delightfully lyrical (thinking of Elizabeth Enright's books here...and how her writing is so evocative and enjoyable, but nuanced enough that reading it is a stretch for a new reader).
In these cases, I actually don't pay attention to the read aloud recommendation, and do consider putting these books on the child's reading schedule. (And we're working on the assumption here that book content is fine, writing style is excellent) My strategy is to:
1) Pre-read/heavy skim the book for content and writing style.
2) Schedule the book to be read over a much longer period of time....even for the year, covering 1 - 2 pages a day. (This would be opposed to the alternative which would be to have to assign more pages to fit a meatier book into a term's worth of reading.) This may seem painfully slow, but it's actually one of the best habits we developed. The books we read like this are the favorites here because the child relishes every single moment within the couple of pages assigned, and then delights in retelling. Narrations build enormously, with the child really beginning to add his/her own style and thoughts.
3) Let this be the meaty/stretching book on his schedule - other books are just at his reading level. This will be the book that will become a dear friend because he gives such effort to forming the relationship with it.
I still agree with Suzanne's strategy for Read Aloud --> Independent ideas, and really wanted to throw this take into the mix. Approaching some of this stretching-the-reading-level writing, can be much more doable within a CM schedule because of the pace we are able to set and because of the great value the narrations add to the book, allowing us to see what they're taking from the book, and cementing the relationships formed.
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Jen Mackintosh
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4Real Forums : Living Literature
Topic: Determining Level for Assigned Reading
