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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Sept 26 2007 at 10:24am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
| I'm working on writing a fairy tale unit for bigger kids. |
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Speaking of fairy tales (and I know this would be a completely new thread but...) I wanted to mention that three years ago MacBeth and I both did a fairy tale unit with our 9th grade daughters. The conversations are logged at Literature Alive! and MacBeth has an opinion on older children and fairy tales. 
Perhaps this will entice MacBeth to resurface again. 
Also, Regina Doman spent time at Literature Alive! answering lots of fairy tale questions. She's is an amazing source and the ultimate guru of fairy tale knowledge.
[Edited to add: Oh, and she's Catholic. ]
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CKwasniewski
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A couple side notes:
Fairy tales as we have them originated in the 17th century. The oral culture before that was legends and myths--definitely NOT the same thing. There may have been a root for a story older, but it definitely took a turn after the renaissance. So, I don't think its accurate to say "thousands of years."
I'm going to be a party pooper and say that I did NOT like Regina Doman's older kids fairy tales. I thought they were rather dark--like a nightmare. Anyone who has been trying to keep their kids away from modern teen culture will NOT want their kids to read them.
The simplicity and clarity with which something can be presented in a fairy tale is completely lost when transferring the format to a novel.
At least, read before you buy--or give to your kids.
my party pooping .02,
 ck
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: Sept 26 2007 at 11:23am | IP Logged
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Wow,ck. I had no idea they were that. I haven't read any of them yet, though I've got one sitting here waiting for quiet time today.
Please pardon my lack of clarity in delineating between oral tradition and the stories written from that tradition.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bridget
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CKwasniewski wrote:
In fact, I thought they were rather dark and ugly--like a nightmare. Anyone who has been trying to keep their kids away from modern pop culture will NOT want their kids to read them. 
ck
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They are intense, and not for young children. But I guess you wouldn't have much of a plot without the antagonist.
I thought R. D. did a beautiful job of weaving the faith into her stories and they make a clear contrast between the rich life of the faithful and the ugly culture at large. And how hard it is to live in the culture but not be part of it.
I don't really care about the fairy tale part. It's just a fairy tale, you could chop it up however you want. 
I let my oldest (14) read them because he is asking more and more questions about how to do battle in the culture. And because I like the example of the chaste relationship.
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Mary G
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I haven't read them but Catie (she was 15 at the time and got the first two from St. Nick) has and LOVED them! She was really looking forward to getting the third (guess I should go order it, huh?) I've noticed that my judgement on books and their suitability is colored by the audience I'm looking to: for my littles, I wouldn't read Doman's books (because of their intensity that Bridget mentioned and Catie did too), but for my teens, it's way different. But we all would still have very different opinions of what is a "good story" and what isn't. (Just look at the controversy surround the Harry Potter books! ).
Fairy tales as a story-telling tradition have a plethora of proponents ... many of whom are good orthodox Catholics. Tolkein wrote/spoke extensively on fairy tales -- here's an article from the EWTN site that gives an overview. And here's the full text of an essay he wrote called "On Fairy Stories".
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CKwasniewski
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Elizabeth, sorry if I was curt.
I've only read the first 2.
Don't get me wrong, they are not gross or like a horror novel. But why would I want my kid thinking about street crimes, drugs, proms, and being stalked???
Entering the world of those novels is like entering a smoke filled tunnel. If there had been more LIGHT from Catholicism: Mass, confession, priestly advice, etc. I would have been less against them. But I did not even feel that the characters were STRONG in their faith.
There ARE some really wonderful fairy tale retellings that have been done in the last 10 years. Beauty, by Robin McKinley was a gem! Ella Enchanted by Gail Carson Levine and Bella at Midnight by Diane Stanley (not a retelling) I give  .
I think it is a great idea to study the genre further. (I was actually thinking about it a few weeks ago.)
If you have the Princess Bride, it would be fun to watch it and at the end identify the fairy tale elements at work in the film... (The commentary on the 2-disc set really got me thinking about the topic.)
Hope that clarifies.
Blessings,
CK
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CKwasniewski
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Bridget,
I just wanted to clarify what I meant when I said:
"The simplicity and clarity with which something can be presented in a fairy tale is completely lost when transferring the format to a novel."
I wasn't talking about the story line (which Doman adapts cleverly), but rather about the battle between good and evil.
In a fairy tale, good and evil are clearly delineated and presented SYMBOLICALLY or allegorically. You can't do that (as well) in a novel, with all the psychological details and so on.
I didn't even like the boy and girl in the Doman novels! How can they be symbols of good to me?
Does this make any sense?
ck
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Mary G
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CK, I apologize if you thought I meant you were the only one that didn't like them ... I'm sure there are lots of folks out their who don't. Besides which, I can't talk to the content as I haven't read them ....
So, I sincerely apologize if I muddied the waters further. I think it's great to get both sides of opinion on books -- the good and bad .. and I think you have a good point to pre-read or at least be pre-warned. 
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Elizabeth
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I can't talk to the content either but I do want to remind you all as you review any book that this is a public forum. If we are reviewing a book here, there is a very good chance the author will stumble on that review sooner or later. Please remember that whether you like a book or not, someone poured herself or himself into authoring it. We need to speak about resources as if the author were int he room.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Leonie
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CKwasniewski wrote:
If you have the Princess Bride, it would be fun to watch it and at the end identify the fairy tale elements at work in the film... (The commentary on the 2-disc set really got me thinking about the topic.)
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Love that movie - and it really does lead to good discussions on elements of fairy tales....
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Natalia
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I read the first two books and really liked them. I let my dd read them she was 12 at the time. I am not very good at remembering what I read but it seems to me that the kids, especially the girls were strong in their faith, there were visits to a church, friars, masses, prayers said by the characters. My dd is now reading the third book and really liking it. I have not read it myself yet (maybe I should have) but, she has been awaiting for this book for a couple of years and I didn't see myself making her wait some more
To this day she says that the first two books are her favorite books.
Natalia
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Kristie 4
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The George MacDonald Princess books are excellent- 9 and upwards
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Patty LeVasseur
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CKwasniewski wrote:
If you have the Princess Bride, it would be fun to watch it and at the end identify the fairy tale elements at work in the film... (The commentary on the 2-disc set really got me thinking about the topic.) |
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The Princess Bride is also a wonderful book. It has so much more detail. Love it!!!
We already have the movie on tape and DVD, but now you make me wonder if I should go get the 2-disc set. 
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chicken lady
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I second Kristie with the George MacDonald books. Quite good reads.
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cathhomeschool
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And I'll third the George MacDonald books.
We love The Princess Bride movie and I had no idea that it was also a book! Can't wait to check it out.
Another nice book and movie is The Neverending Story. I guess it would fall under the category of fairy tale, but I'm not positive.
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CKwasniewski
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Patty,
Don't buy another one!
If you're interested, I can watch that section again (its only 15 minutes) and tell you what the "elements" identified were. You could plan to cover those earlier accordingly....
The book is very funny too. But the good thing about the movie is, again, it has the simplicity of a child's story. Besides, who doesn't like to have a movie at the end of their literature unit??!
Let me know if you want me to give you that list.
I Fourth George MacDonald! His book Lilith, while somewhat weird, did help me to understand Mary when coming into the Church. He's also very prophetic about the anti-life character of modern culture. That's definitely only for older kids. Tales of the Child Christ is a big collection of stories. There are so many lovely things in there!
blessings
ck
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Oct 23 2007 at 9:53pm | IP Logged
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Since Regina Doman's books were mentioned on this thread...
Here's a recent Review of Regina Doman's fairy tale books by a 19 yr old hsed girl who began reading them at the age of 13.
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Cay Gibson
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4Real Forums : Living Literature
Topic: Fairy Tales for Big Kids
