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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: June 22 2010 at 8:01pm | IP Logged
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I watched the movie...took me three tries cause of content...but once I got thru it I was convicted that Evelyn Waugh did not write warm fuzzies about people living their Catholic faith in a real world but, rather, he wrote cold, hard facts about Catholic people living in a real world.
I was warily intrigued. As the weeks go by this is one story I cannot get out of my mind. The deathbed scene of the father was something I need to read and see how Waugh handled it. It cried out everything I have ever believed about God's mercy.
So I'm attempting to get a copy. In the meantime...
My question is who has read this book? What did you think? How did it direct your spiritual walk? How did it make you feel?
I would love to discuss this book...if only for a short spell...if only for your insight.
Thank you!
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Cay Gibson
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guitarnan
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I probably should not be the first to comment, because I thought the book was well-written and intriguing but not inspiring (in a spiritual sense). I do think that Waugh captured very well the situations everyday people find themselves in, and the sometimes agonizing thought processes they endure in an effort to determine which path to take. Life isn't easy, nor is "being good," and Waugh doesn't sugarcoat the struggle.
I have not seen the movie (I don't like movies based on books I've already read - I am always, always disappointed).
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: June 22 2010 at 11:02pm | IP Logged
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guitarnan wrote:
I have not seen the movie (I don't like movies based on books I've already read - I am always, always disappointed). |
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Thank you for your input, Nancy. That's pretty much what I gathered from the movie but I know the book is often different.
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like the movie. I didn't but it had me wondering how Waugh handled these real life situations so well w/out the sugar coating.
Like Flannery O'Connor and Caryl Houselander, it seems he writes to the folks who don't (or can't) find spiritual connections in their life.
I was wondering if I made the proper assumption.
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Erin
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I read the book many years ago as a teenager and it stuck in my head for years as being exceptionally well written.
I actually have a couple of copies sitting on my shelves. I was toying with dd reading it (when a little older) after I re-read it. It do remember it dealt with some adult topics.
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CrunchyMom
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Which movie did you watch, Cay? The older BBC one or the newer Hollywood one? I've heard the older one is one of the most faithful adaptations of a book to film, but the newer one was written by anti-Catholics to be anti-Catholic.
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St. Ann
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I wanted to mention the same point as Lindsay.
I have the Jeremy Irons (BBC) production and have read the book. The first time I read it and saw the movie on PBS I was 20 years old. Then, I loved the movie! Back then I never even considered homose#uality as being an issue with the 2 main characters. I really don't know what Waugh really intended. Even after reading the book.
I reread the book 2 years ago and it was totally new to me. In the book we learn much more detail about Sebastian's life after leaving England. In the movie we only get bits of it which is unfortunate, because we really miss out on Sebastian's faith journey.
I would recommend the book for adults. I was very intrigued by the different faces of Catholocism...almost every character is influenced in one way or another by Catholocism either as a Catholic trying to find one's way in or out or round about, or as a non-Catholic trying to figur it all out.
Cay, I did read somewhere , that in later years Waugh was very unhappy with Brideshead. I think he wrote it at the beginning of his journey to Catholocism???
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CrunchyMom
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I have friends who insist that their friendship seems especially strange to American sensibilities, but really, it wasn't homose#ual--certainly not physically. It might just be ambiguous, but sense the blatantly homose#ual character is an obvious villain of sorts, and there are no words minced regarding his relationship with Julia, it would seem that was not the intent.
I really don't know, and I'm not knowledgeable in this regard, this is just what I recall from questioning a knowledgeable friend. 
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 23 2010 at 10:53am | IP Logged
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You might enjoy this radio interview where Father John McCloskey discusses Evelyn Waugh and Brideshead.
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Lindsay
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SusanJ
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This is probably mine and dh's favorite book--definitely top five, anyway. He actually uses it in one of his moral theology classes as sort of a narrative they can all commonly refer back to throughout the course.
I have not seen the newer movie and have no plans to. But the older BBC version is, without a doubt, the best book-to-movie I have ever seen. We found that the movie enhanced our appreciation and understanding of the book.
The relationships Charles has with Sebastian and Julia are of a piece with his conversion. He moves from less perfect to more perfect loves ending up, finally, single and in love with God. I'm not sure it's important to what extent his relationship with Sebastian was out-and-out homose*ual but that there was a kind of love there that was important to Charles's ultimate conversion. The book makes it clear that they did plenty of naughty stuff but doesn't give details. Then Julia, is, though married, at least female and there is something more real about that. It can't last, of course.
I disagree with Lindsay that Anthony Blanche (the obvious homose*ual) is a villain of sorts. My husband and I both think (and I don't think we came up with this on our own) that he always speaks the truth. He and Cordelia. He's certainly not someone I'd want to be friends with but he does speak truth. His warnings against getting caught up in charm are good. Cordelia's monologues at the halfway point and at the end of the book are very good. A lot of good stuff there about holiness and finding it in unexpected places i.e. she argues that Sebastian was holy. "When people wanted to hate God, they hated Mummy" because, I think, she had the appearance of sanctity.
Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Dh has our copy in his office at school so I can't pull it out. Love that book!
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CrunchyMom
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Great thoughts, Susan. You know FAR more about this than myself. I'm so glad you chimed in!
My gut reaction was to be repulsed by Anthony Blanche, and my reactions were off the top of my head from my vague memory of the story. Your insights given your intimate knowledge of the book are wonderful!
Villain is probably the wrong word. Instead of that, I almost wrote that his lifestyle is presented in a negative way. It is not portrayed attractively at all. I suppose being disgusted by a person is not the same as their representing all disgusting things, and perhaps that was part of the point of his speaking truth in the way you describe.
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SusanJ
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Right. I don't think we are supposed to be attracted to Anthony. But I think that is part of Waugh's point.
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JennGM
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Love, love, love this book! I remember reading a quote from my old Daughters of St. Paul Weekday Missal and it started my long love of this book (and Evelyn Waugh).
Here it is, Living in Sin.
Dh and I watched both the latest movie and the BBC version. I followed along the book while we watched the series, and it really did keep closely to the book.
My MIL get the magazine Vanity Fair and recently it had an excerpt from a new book on Evelyn Waugh, Mad World: Evelyn Waugh and the Secrets of Brideshead by Paula Byrne. I promise I do not read this on a regular basis, but this article was interesting.
The article: Waugh and Brideshead
It addresses some of the questions raised in this thread. While I was uncomfortable with that relationship, it does seem that was a problem that happened with the young men at Oxford, but most "outgrew" it over time. It was different than what is posed these days.
But the point is what Susan says, it's part of his conversion. I think Waugh uses a little shock in his writing, kind of like Flannery O'Connor.
Handful of Dust has a really surprising and shocking ending!
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: June 23 2010 at 6:05pm | IP Logged
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Susan, your input has been invaluable. Thank you!!!
CrunchyMom wrote:
| Which movie did you watch, Cay? |
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I'm pretty sure it was the newer version. Probably why it took me 3 tries to watch it. It took awhile for me to get into it. Our video stores are going out of business (which prompted us to get Netflix  ) so I bought the movie at 60% off and can now go find the BBC version on Netflix...I hope.
I'm anxious to get the book and watch the older version. I'm glad to hear y'all bravo-ing the BBC version. Can't wait to see it.
Think I'll follow the book while I watch the movie like Jenn mentioned. I like that idea.
JennGM wrote:
| Love, love, love this book! |
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Then I'm sure I will. 
Thank you, ladies. You've given me more info on this book than I had hoped for. I'm enthralled.
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Cay Gibson
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Natalia
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I read the books many years ago and I remember thinking it was just plain weird. I think it is the expectations I went in with. I picked it up because it is in every single Catholic novel list I've ever seen. I was expecting a book of another sort-maybe dealing with other aspects of Catholicism.Instead it is a book not about Catholicism per ser but abounding on Catholic themes, some of which were not always apparent -at least to me.
I do remember thinking that this books is one of those books that begs to be discussed once you read it.Recently I picked up a used copy and plan to re-read it soon.
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Karen T
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Oh, yes, definitely see the older version. I had gotten it from our library last summer and watched the first few hours (it's long), stopped and read the book, and then finished watching. I think it is a very good adaptation of the book overall.
I have not seen the newer one b/c people warned me of the differences in it and I knew I would not like it. I had been a bit puzzled about Charles and Sebastian's relationship in the beginning also, but came to similar conclusions as Susan and Lindsay. I've also read in other places that deep same-gender relationships were not only common but almost universal in that era, in the prep-school and/or university settings.
I think of Anthony as more tragic than a villain. he's flamboyant IMO b/c he knows he is an object of ridicule regardless, so he chooses not to hide it.
I loved Anthony Andrews playing Sebastian in the old version.
Karen
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I loved the BBC miniseries when it first came out....in 1981. I remember it was quite shocking for tv at the time. I need to rewatch it one of these days when I have some free time. I think I will pull the book out and reread it too. It has been 25 years.
Yes, Anthony Andrews was Sebastian. Jeremy Irons was Charles. And one of my favorites was Sir John Gielgud as his father. And Claire Bloom and Sir Lawrence Olivier as the Marchmains.
Thanks for the links!
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Cay Gibson
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I appreciate the links too. Got the book today cause I'm anxious to start reading and my girls have classes at the local college tomorrow and I need new reading material.
But... it was the only copy our bookstore had and it has the movie-cover on the front.
Which is another thing...
I've become a bit of a book snob.  When I go shopping for a book to read (primarily the classics) I want the cover to look a certain way, the print to be a certain size and font and I've even gotten picky about having the most notes, study guides, letters, footnotes and author notes in the book as possible. It's getting ridiculous.
So can anyone...perhaps Susan's dh...suggest what would be the best edition of this book? This copy just has the text. I want notes and study guide, etc.
Tnx!
Wanted to share this found in the back of the book I got today: "In fifteen novels of cunning construction and lapidary eloquence," Time summarized later, "Evelyn Waugh developed a wickedly hilarious yet fundamentally religious assault on a century that, in his opinion, had ripped up the nourishing taproot of tradition and let wither all the dear things of the world."
This was an eye-opener to me. Waugh's books were written beginning in 1928 and he died in 1966...long before the effects of Vatican II were known (ie: tradition, to focus on a small part). Was he already fretting about the lack of respect and assault on "nourishing taproot of tradition" in the Church that is happening today?
Surely people and times change little in the grand scheme of the world. And God knows this! Each generation walks down the same circular path. It's a constant Birth-Living-Dying-Death-Resurrection that is shown in the Paschal Mystery!
With the redirection Pope Benedict XVI is guiding the Church in, I'm anticipating the revelations found in this book to be especially interesting.
I'm rambling...is anyone following me?
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Natalia
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Do you like to read reviews? There is a thoughtful review of BR at Catholic Fiction
Brideshead Revisited
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Cay Gibson
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What a wonderful review, Natalia. I loved it! Thank you for sending me there.
It confirms what I suspected was Waugh's intent all along.
"Waugh never blinks at the idiosyncrasies—even outright hypocrisies—of individual members of the Church of Rome, and yet no novel is more thoroughly Catholic than this. Catholicism is the ever-present theme—and atmosphere, and identity, and mystery—of this world. Faith is the double-edged sword, the stumbling-block, the life and death, the fear and desire, of the novel’s main characters. Nor does Waugh seem to claim that Catholics are, humanly-speaking, any happier than anyone else. Indeed, most of the main characters are in some degree miserable and desperate for happiness. As St. Augustine says better than anyone, “our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee.” "
"Brideshead Revisited offers a quietly powerful reflection on faith, on holiness, on modernity, and on the timeless pursuit of happiness, which might be better termed “peace”. "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you,” says Christ. “Not as the world gives do I give it to you.” (John 14:27) For that mysterious Chapel that Blake speaks of in the poem, built upon the playground of childhood, has perhaps, unseen and unsuspected, been there all along, whether we see it or not, like it or not."
I'm just now getting around to checking out each link and I appreciate them all.
This is going to be my 4th of July indulgence.
I've put the BBC-showing in my Netflix queue but the rest of the fmaily doesn't like me "cutting in line" so I didn't move it into spot #1...especially since there is more than one disc.  Guess I'll have to wait my turn.
I'm fixing to head to bed...where most of my reading takes place...with my new book.
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LeeAnn
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Maybe I'll give this book a try. I watched the newer movie version of it last night and thought it was pretty interesting...the comments on this thread were very helpful in figuring out what was going on! I have only finished one Waugh novel, "Helena," which I really liked. I tried "Vile Bodies" and really *didn't* like that one. Too...Gatsby-ish or something for me. I've enjoyed the discussion. :)
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4Real Forums : Book Club
Topic: Brideshead Revisited
