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Donna Marie
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| Posted: July 02 2006 at 8:07pm | IP Logged
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Can someone please point me to the Catholic rebuttal for the phrase "Judge not lest ye be judged" when someone is using it to support their own mortal sin? I know in essence what it really is...I just need a reasonable explanation to give to a non-practicing Catholic that is interested in learning more....
I hope I make sense...allergies really bad today!
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Donna Marie from NJ
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Finding Elegant Simplicity
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Jen L.
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| Posted: July 02 2006 at 9:35pm | IP Logged
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I think the main point is that we are not to judge PEOPLE but they we are to judge ACTIONS.
Here are some other New Testament quotes about judging...
Jesus said "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment" (John 7:24).
St. Paul wrote: "Judge everything, hang on to what is good" (1 Thess. 5:21).
I don't know if this is a great article, but it does have some points...Judge Not
I know that you are going to get some great answers to this question -- I look forward to reading them!
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aussieannie
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Dear Donna Marie,
There was slightly similar discussion along these lines here Dawnie and I were discussing it. I did use biblical quotes in helping explain how we are to view people when we ARE making a judgement but I think you are looking for something a little different there.
When I was at school and was appt to stand up a bit and defend my faith when teachers were making outrageous statements, they ALWAYS threw that one at me. So I went home and said to Mum and Dad, "What do you say?" "By your fruits you will know them." was their reply, I don't remember now what the book, chapter or verse was, but if you have an online bible you could put it through it's search engine.
May Holy Spirit inspire you in your charitable work (because it IS one of the spiritual works of Mercy!)
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Karen T
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I wasn't sure, but the Gospel of Matthew popped into my head, and sure enough, here it is
ch. 7
16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.
karen T
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aussieannie
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Thanks Karen! It's great to see the whole quote in context too.
While I think of it, what about the one, somewhere in the books after the 4 gospels, where they talk of approaching someone in sin and talking to him, maybe a second time you approach him with 2 others (I think- maybe they are elders of the church) and if all else fails, he is declared to be in heresy.
What a shocking recall of it all!  -sorry  - but someone is bound to recognise it and may know the source of it. It certainly is an example of the early church in practical action(when the apostles were still alive)anyone can see judgements MUST be made and it is a new-testament biblical example of it.
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Karen T
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| Posted: July 03 2006 at 8:36am | IP Logged
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Also in Matthew, although I was thinking it was in one of Paul's letters.
Mt ch. 18
15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.
16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
this one I found using a handy little laminated card I got (from Emmanuel I think?) for a couple dollars - it's a quickie reference for when people come knocking on your door asking if you are saved LOL! It has all the Scripture verses that respond to their claims, like authority of the Church, apostolic succession, faith plus works, etc.
The very next verse after the above quote is the one saying whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven, etc.
Here are some verses they list about being judged according to deeds:
Romans 2:5-8 God will repay each man according to his works
2Cor 5:10 recompense accord to what did in body
2 Cor 11:15 their end will correspond to their deeds
1 Pet 1:17 God judges impartially according to one's works
Rev. 20:12-13 dead judged according to their deeds
Col 3:24-25 will receive due payment for whatever you do
hth,
karen
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Karen T
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| Posted: July 03 2006 at 8:40am | IP Logged
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forgot to add. This is the link I use most often when checking things online - you can use the English version or click on Latin Vulgate
Douay-Rheims
karen
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Donna Marie
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| Posted: July 03 2006 at 9:47am | IP Logged
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Wow! Thank you so much Jen, Anne and Karen! I remembered that it was all about ACTIONS and not the person, but I found it awkward to come up with the right words..."by their fruits"...was in my head at the time. I just hate it when persons mis-quote the bible to support their own mis-deeds.
This one person I was thinking of has the mistaken notion that as long as "x" is ok with his deeds then we have no right to tell him any different, even when "x" makes his deeds known and challenges us openly to validate his behavior. Why do persons get the mistaken notion that if it looks like we are living our lives rightly we have to give our seal of approval to those that don't live their lives in the light...and if we don't (even when done in a kind and quiet manner) then we are the immoral and intolerant ones?
Boy, talk about scrambled eggs theology.
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Donna Marie from NJ
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Finding Elegant Simplicity
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Judge not....
