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St. Ann
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| Posted: March 12 2014 at 6:02am | IP Logged
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Aunt Leila
has a new post on this topic. It has always been a "mystery" to me what this really means for us today and is it really Catholic? I remember hearing it among my Catholic friends in the States more or less used as a synonym for "stop complaining" or "buck up"... using a pious phrase instead. Hmmmm.
Now, a very lutheran friend of mine, who also reads and cherishes Aunt Leila, looked up the bible quotes and told me these quotes are very heavily disputed in biblical scholarship...I replied that many texts are disputed and she promptly stated : "NEIN!" (meaning, and I believe her, that this is an exception. She studied and reads theology and her dh translates biblical texts from the original for his job) I honestly have nothing to say in reply or defense of the whole practice of offering it up, only to say that it is a tradition of the Church?!?!
I have never heard this said in German in the last 20 years. My dh said a Priest friend of his used to say it on occasion in a similar vein as noted above.......
I hope I haven't confused anyone , because I certainly am confused. And although Leila writes clearly, I still don't have a grasp on the whole concept. My mother converted to the Faith with marraige (1962) and I know that plays a major role as to why in our home many traditions did not exist.*
Thanks for any assistance.
*eta: not because she is a convert per se, but that she was a convert in the 60's and was busy immediately with babies until the mid 70's. Where and how should she have learned about the lovely traditions of the Church! I thank God that she took us to Mass every Sunday - alone! My dad always met us there(directly from the office)
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St. Ann
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| Posted: March 12 2014 at 8:01am | IP Logged
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back again.
Melinda just "offered her day" for Pilgrim which is beautiful. And I know that I have "offered" my Communion for someone or some intention.
hmmmmm.?
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Stephanie
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 12 2014 at 8:28am | IP Logged
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Stephanie, I am grasping for the right words, so I will ponder on this today. But I was going to start with the whole idea of the "Morning Offering" prayer which offers up all our day with Christ.
Quote:
O Jesus,
through the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
I offer You my prayers, works,
joys and sufferings
of this day for all the intentions
of Your Sacred Heart,
in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass
throughout the world,
in reparation for my sins,
for the intentions of all my relatives and friends,
and in particular
for the intentions of the Holy Father. Amen |
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This is all linked with the Mystical Body of Christ and Christ's Pashal Mystery and the Eucharistic Sacrifice.
A few CCC quotes:
Quote:
1368 The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the Church. The Church which is the Body of Christ participates in the offering of her Head. With him, she herself is offered whole and entire. She unites herself to his intercession with the Father for all men. In the Eucharist the sacrifice of Christ becomes also the sacrifice of the members of his Body. The lives of the faithful, their praise, sufferings, prayer, and work, are united with those of Christ and with his total offering, and so acquire a new value. Christ's sacrifice present on the altar makes it possible for all generations of Christians to be united with his offering.
In the catacombs the Church is often represented as a woman in prayer, arms outstretched in the praying position. Like Christ who stretched out his arms on the cross, through him, with him, and in him, she offers herself and intercedes for all men. |
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Quote:
| 2648 Every joy and suffering, every event and need can become the matter for thanksgiving which, sharing in that of Christ, should fill one's whole life: "Give thanks in all circumstances" (1 Thess 5:18). |
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Quote:
| 806 In the unity of this Body, there is a diversity of members and functions. All members are linked to one another, especially to those who are suffering, to the poor and persecuted. |
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Quote:
| 1521 Union with the passion of Christ. By the grace of this sacrament the sick person receives the strength and the gift of uniting himself more closely to Christ's Passion: in a certain way he is consecrated to bear fruit by configuration to the Savior's redemptive Passion. Suffering, a consequence of original sin, acquires a new meaning; it becomes a participation in the saving work of Jesus. |
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Quote:
The sick person before God
1502 The man of the Old Testament lives his sickness in the presence of God. It is before God that he laments his illness, and it is of God, Master of life and death, that he implores healing.99 Illness becomes a way to conversion; God's forgiveness initiates the healing.100 It is the experience of Israel that illness is mysteriously linked to sin and evil, and that faithfulness to God according to his law restores life: "For I am the Lord, your healer."101 The prophet intuits that suffering can also have a redemptive meaning for the sins of others.102 Finally Isaiah announces that God will usher in a time for Zion when he will pardon every offense and heal every illness.103...
1505 Moved by so much suffering Christ not only allows himself to be touched by the sick, but he makes their miseries his own: "He took our infirmities and bore our diseases.".112 But he did not heal all the sick. His healings were signs of the coming of the Kingdom of God. They announced a more radical healing: the victory over sin and death through his Passover. On the cross Christ took upon himself the whole weight of evil and took away the "sin of the world,".113 of which illness is only a consequence. By his passion and death on the cross Christ has given a new meaning to suffering: it can henceforth configure us to him and unite us with his redemptive Passion. |
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These do not provide complete answers, but they are the beginning of the conversation.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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guitarnan
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I knew Jenn would have some great quotes from Church documents to share! (Thanks!)
I was taught to offer up sufferings as a young child, both at home and in Catholic school. We children weren't given a big theological explanation; rather, we were told that our sufferings, if endured as Jesus endured His Passion, could be offered in reparation or for specific prayer intention(s).
In a world where a large number of people reject God because they see suffering and can't understand (who can?) why God would allow that suffering to exist, it is an enormous comfort to know that suffering can be offered up for something worthwhile - for the poor souls in Purgatory, for a friend who's going through chemo, for Pilgrim and her baby. When it's impossible to offer material help, we always have something we can give.
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St. Ann
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| Posted: March 12 2014 at 9:12am | IP Logged
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Jenn, I pray the Morning Offering everyday with the girls. I want to pray this with my whole heart and while praying this beautiful prayer I pray for understanding.
...pondering...
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Stephanie
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: March 12 2014 at 9:37am | IP Logged
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I can see how the passages quoted by Auntie Leila and the concept in general is especially difficult or disputed by Lutherans. The idea is very tied up in our own efforts and their role in our sanctification, and this dichotomy of faith versus works is at the heart of the difference between Lutheran and Catholic theology.
I am currently reading through 33 Days to Morning Glory to renew my Marian consecration, and one of the questions addressed by St. Louis de Montfort is, "Why should I give my offerings to Mary? Won't this mean I cannot offer them for whomever I wish?" Now whether one chooses de Montfort's way or not isn't the point, but the fact remains that there are these things we have available to us to offer in some way. If we can offer our praises, our thoughts, our hopes, and our joy to God, why not our pain?
It is a hard idea, and I think it is one that even faithful, practicing Catholics can misunderstand. I think that Nancy's simple "if endured as Jesus endured His passion," is important. It isn't just that we have pain we fling flippantly and remain grumpy and angry and nasty (though we might, of course, be grumpy and try to stop over and over again!). Rather, we are asked to unite our suffering with Christ and bear it patiently. It is our efforts to be patient and at peace that we can willfully give and offer as prayer, not necessarily the pain itself. Perhaps we are hurting so much we can barely think of words as we might in traditional prayer, but if we can makes the bearing of pain a prayer, we can give it meaning.
Also, the saints suffered so much, often to a much greater extent than others. In all their writings, this suffering has meaning and plays a roll in their sanctification. While scripture may be more vague, I wonder what the early church Fathers had to say on this topic.
Just some rambling thoughts. It is an interesting question, and it is of course the time of year when it is most on our minds.
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JennGM
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Scott Hahn has a wonderful chapter in his "Signs of Life" on the Morning Offering, and this is one of the key passages he uses. I also found this referenced several other places.
Lumen Gentium, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church
Quote:
34. The supreme and eternal Priest, Christ Jesus, since he wills to continue his witness and service also through the laity, vivifies them in this Spirit and increasingly urges them on to every good and perfect work.
For besides intimately linking them to His life and His mission, He also gives them a sharing in His priestly function of offering spiritual worship for the glory of God and the salvation of men. For this reason the laity, dedicated to Christ and anointed by the Holy Spirit, are marvelously called and wonderfully prepared so that ever more abundant fruits of the Spirit may be produced in them. For all their works, prayers and apostolic endeavors, their ordinary married and family life, their daily occupations, their physical and mental relaxation, if carried out in the Spirit, and even the hardships of life, if patiently borne-all these become "spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ".199 Together with the offering of the Lord's body, they are most fittingly offered in the celebration of the Eucharist. Thus, as those everywhere who adore in holy activity, the laity consecrate the world itself to God. |
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Scott Hahn lays the OT scriptural foundation, but also the above text uses 2 Peter 2:5 as basis:
Quote:
| and, like living stones, let yourselves be built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. |
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St. Ann
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| Posted: March 12 2014 at 4:12pm | IP Logged
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(sorry Melinda)
So, when Melinda offers her day for Pilgrim , then Melinda is more aware of what she says and does during the day, how she prays and what she thinks - not for her own gain, but because of Pilgrim and her baby. Naturally, this will be beneficial to Melinda and her own family, but the intention is directed outwards - to build up the Church.
The connection is the Church. In the big picture it has to be to build up Holy Mother Church, not an institution but the Kingdom. The Communion of Saints and those of us who aren't so saintly - The Church Militant.(I really don't know the terms)
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SeaStar
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| Posted: March 12 2014 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
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The good news is I've had quite a day with ds- lots to offer up  .
At this rate Pilgrim should have had a 20 minute labor...
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 12 2014 at 5:14pm | IP Logged
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Just a minute here...I'll have to come back, but I've been thinking of Col 1:24 in context. That letter is so key to the teachings of the Mystical Body of Christ. How we are all one body, a part of Christ. He is the Head, we are the members. We keep our distinct separateness, yet we are all together. The Vine and the Branches is another visual, also the Communion of Saints. It is deep, and a mystery.
The Navarre Bible Commentary has this to say about this "disputed" passage:
Quote:
Jesus Christ our Lord perfectly accomplished the work the Father gave him to do (cf. Jn. 17:4); as he said himself when he was about to die, "It is finished", it is accomplished (Jn 19:30).
From that point onwards objective redemption is an accomplished fact. Al men have been saved by the redemptive death of Christ. However, St. Paul says, that he completes in his flesh "what is lacking in Christ's afflictions"; what does he mean by this? The most common explanation of this statement is summarized by St. Alphonsus as follows: "Can it be that Christ's passion alone was insufficient to save us? It left nothing more to be done, it was entirely sufficient to save all men. However, for the merits of the Passion to be applied to us, according to St. Thomas (Summa theologiae, III, q. 49, a. 3), we need to cooperate (subjective redemption) by patiently bearing the trials God sends us, so as to become like our head, Christ" (St. Alphonsus, Thoughts on the Passion, 10).
St. Paul is applying this truth to himself. Jesus Christ worked and strove in all kinds of ways to communicate his message of salvation and then he accomplished the redemption by dying on the Cross. The Apostle is mindful of the Master's teaching and so he follows in his footsteps (cf. 1 Pet 2:21), takes up his cross (cf. Mt. 10:38) and continues the task of bringing Christ's teaching to all men.
Faith in the fact that we are sharing in the sufferings of Christ, John Paul II says, gives a person "the certainty that in the spiritual dimension of the work of Redemption he is serving, like Christ, the salvation of his brothers and sisters. Therefore he is carrying out an irreplaceable service. In the Body of Christ, which is ceaselessly born of the cross of the Redeemer, it is precisely suffering permeated by the spirit of Christ's sacrifice that is the irreplaceable mediator and author of the good things which are indispensable for the world's salvation. It is suffering, more than anything else, which clears the way for the grace which transforms human souls. Suffering, more than anything else, makes present in the history of humanity the force of the Redemption." (Salvifici doloris, 27). |
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It is easy to see why this would be disputed, because the discussion of being saved and good works. But it is Scripturally based, even though it is a "Catholic" tradition.
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 12 2014 at 7:43pm | IP Logged
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St. Ann wrote:
(sorry Melinda)
So, when Melinda offers her day for Pilgrim , then Melinda is more aware of what she says and does during the day, how she prays and what she thinks - not for her own gain, but because of Pilgrim and her baby. Naturally, this will be beneficial to Melinda and her own family, but the intention is directed outwards - to build up the Church.
The connection is the Church. In the big picture it has to be to build up Holy Mother Church, not an institution but the Kingdom. The Communion of Saints and those of us who aren't so saintly - The Church Militant.(I really don't know the terms) |
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Well, when you offer up in the Morning your day, even if you forget throughout the day, that original intention is known and recognized by God.
The case of Melinda, she made that intention, and she might not have remembered through every agonizing moment, but God remembered.
Just a little interruption touching on the Communion of Saints.
The Communion of Saints is the whole Mystical Body, everyone who is on earth, heaven, or purgatory. Within the Communion of Saints is the breakdown of
1) Church Militant -- those on earth, us, who are soldiering on to get to heaven
2) Church Suffering -- those in Purgatory, who are suffering their punishment due to sin and then gain heaven
3) Church Triumphant -- all those who have reached heaven, canonized and non-canonized saints
We as the Church Militant can still offer and unite our prayers and sufferings for others who are living and for those in Purgatory. The Church Triumphant can also intercede for the Church Militant.
The Church Suffering cannot help those on earth in their state.
Back to the original conversation.
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St. Ann
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Leila says
March 12, 2014 at 7:24 pm
Oh, Donna — you don’t have to use the particular words “offer it up”! Say it any way you want to. The point is to unite our sufferings with Christ’s on the cross, for the intentions of his heart. Teaching this to our children will help them so.
I hope you read the little story I linked to about St. Patrick. It’s so edifying that he was horrified that he had hurt Aengus.
Christ’s heart is human and divine. He weeps with his friends, you know? This is how we have to be — not coldly telling each other to offer it up, but helping them to do it while feeling loved and sympathized with."
I hope it is ok to copy this comment here. Apologies if not.
My point is the use of the phrase "offer it up". Not that most people use it coldly, but often jokingly. Sometimes I think it is an inside Catholic Club language that lost its meaning with time.
In conversation with my dh, he says that he cannot say those words in German, it has negative connotations for him. But he believes that this is all true. The question for him is what is the intention? I guess this is when we should pray at the same time "non nobis"!?
I turned on ewtn and there was a children's show "My Heavenly Family" , it was on St. Catherine of Siena. Talk about offering prayers and sufferings...
It is so funny, that I would turn on the tv to exactly this program.
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St. Ann
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JennGM wrote:
Just a little interruption touching on the Communion of Saints.
The Communion of Saints is the whole Mystical Body, everyone who is on earth, heaven, or purgatory. Within the Communion of Saints is the breakdown of
1) Church Militant -- those on earth, us, who are soldiering on to get to heaven
2) Church Suffering -- those in Purgatory, who are suffering their punishment due to sin and then gain heaven
3) Church Triumphant -- all those who have reached heaven, canonized and non-canonized saints
We as the Church Militant can still offer and unite our prayers and sufferings for others who are living and for those in Purgatory. The Church Triumphant can also intercede for the Church Militant.
The Church Suffering cannot help those on earth in their state.
Back to the original conversation. |
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Thank you, Jenn! This again reinforces the importance of our prayers for the suffering souls in Purgatory.
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SallyT
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I always think of St. Therese and her sacrifice beads -- making little presents of her sacrifices to God and pulling a bead, so that she can gather them in her prayers as an offering at the end of the day. I've just been talking this over with my FHC children as we've moved into Lent -- in fact, we're making sacrifice beads this Sunday. The idea that you can take something that is a hardship (in our case right now, our Lenten fasts and sacrifices) and offer it to God as a gift of love is a good starting point for children, I think.
I'm a convert, and one of the things that attracted me powerfully to Catholicism was that suggestion that our suffering is *for* something -- not that God visits bad things on us, but that He turns those things to our good, with our cooperation. It was a revelation to me that pain (large or small) could become a prayer for someone else, as well as a call to holiness for me. It's a concrete moment in which I'm called, forcefully, to surrender my will to God's and let Him do with me what He will -- to let Him be Himself in me.
Sally
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JennGM
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Like Sally said, the phrasing can be different. Give as a gift back to God. "Give that suffering as a gift to help the Poor Souls."
Another way we talk is earning jewels in our heavenly crown. It's not exactly the same concept to the children, but it is the same action and intention. "Earn another jewel for your crown."
I also think of the straws in the manger in Advent or removing thorns from the crown when doing good deeds in Lent. Thus again is uniting our sufferings with Jesus.
Ultimately, this whole self-denial is in imitation of Christ, and necessary for our sanctity. We cannot get yo heaven without the cross.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Offering it up
