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amyable
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| Posted: Jan 07 2011 at 11:10am | IP Logged
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I wasn't sure where to put this. I think we need a "silly and embarrassing questions" forum. 
Is it a sin to harm the environment? I mean, I'm sure it's not a mortal sin, but I feel this incredible sense of guilt when I'm throwing out my 100th paper towel in a day or throwing out my recyclable items because I'm tired and don't want to wash them.
I definitely grew up in the "save the rainforest or we will all die in a heap" generation of environmental education in school. I'm sure that has some influence on my thought process.
For my own mental health right now, however, I need to focus on eradicating REAL sin...and ignoring areas that are not of sinful concern. So, what do you think...and what have good priests or saints said? Thanks for humoring me. 
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JennGM
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It's not a silly question, Amy. I think it's quite appropriate. I think the guilt laid on by the green pushers is quite overwhelming. In short, it's not a sin. What is important is that we practice prudence, pursue balance in all areas. We strive for stewardship of God's creation.
The paper towels thing -- well, one thing outweighs another. I use paper towels extensively because of food allergies. Having contact with allergens on a kitchen towel -- I would have to change and wash a lot of towels. I use kitchen towels, but I do use paper towels more. It's a trade off. Another friend of mine uses the paper towels because of allergies, too.
Pope Benedict has written and spoken a few times on taking care of the environment. That link isn't the one I was looking for. I know elsewhere he talked about prudence here. We have to make sure that their is a balance and a hierarchy. Taking care of the environment isn't the same as putting the earth back so that there should be no people. People do come first, but since we were entrusted with creation and taking care of it, that is still necessary for us.
But you don't have to confess a sin by throwing away paper towels. I think this would fall under habits and wastefulness. Just examine if you need or have room to change. If there is, try to establish a different habit. If this is a necessity, by all means, don't give it another thought!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Betsy
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| Posted: Jan 07 2011 at 11:38am | IP Logged
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Well said, Jennifer!!!!!!!!
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hylabrook1
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Amy -
I think it can become kind of confusing to consider what is a better or more responsible choice, vs. what is just plain wrong. I try to live an *examined life*, meaning I don't just do every consumerist thing willy-nilly, try to respect environmental impact, wise stewardship of all things (money, health, stuff like that). But, there are plenty of good ways to do things and plenty of things that people choose to do for their own good reasons that are just choices, that's all. Nothing deeper. Jenn's example of using paper towels is a great example - should she place the environmental concerns above her children's health? Of course not. She should be thankful that paper towels are available as an option to help her care for her children. Fortunately, life isn't black and white. 
Peace,
Nancy
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organiclilac
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I struggled with this, too, as our recycling options are terrible where we live. We had the option of paying extra to the trash company to come and take a relatively small portion of what could be recycled, or we could collect it all (and, in our small house, that meant bags and bags overflowing in my kitchen!) and drive it half an hour to the recycling center... constant stress for me. Then the recycling center just closed, and I've heard that a new one is coming, but it won't be free. That, and reading several articles about how most of what we recycle goes in the trash anyway, ended it for me. All the recycling in my home goes in the trash, every bit. I have enough trouble keeping my house clean and not being overwhelmed by things like recycling piling up... and up... It was such a relief to feel like our circumstances gave me permission to stop, and it really has made a difference! I'm sure that seems so silly, but I'm just a happier homemaker without piles of recycling needing to be rinsed out or even washed with the dishes, and then stored until we can make a dropoff run. I actually feel a tiny sense of triumph when I carelessly drop each unwashed container into the trash bin!
We do keep a compost bin, but that actually makes me happy. I love that all of our scraps will be put to good use in our garden. 
The day may come when I am on top of things enough that I can add recycling back into the mix, but right now, my family needs to come first, and recycling is just not compatible with that goal!
Boy, that felt like a major confession! Maybe I should have put that in the "would you think less of me" thread!
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Grace&Chaos
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Thanks Jennifer! Well put. We try very hard around here to be eco conscience and with so many littles sometimes I cringe when I see all the paper towels in the trash daily  . So I take a deep breath and tell myself I'm glad they're cleaning up the mess; partly for the amount of laundry that would accumulate and because with little boys I'm never quiet sure where the towels were used  . Then I praise them when they make sure things like lights are turned off that aren'y in use or every time they recycle with out being told. We try very hard to do our best in this area
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amyable
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| Posted: Jan 07 2011 at 12:50pm | IP Logged
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hylabrook1 wrote:
Amy -
I think it can become kind of confusing to consider what is a better or more responsible choice, vs. what is just plain wrong.
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This is definitely where I am. Guess I am so black and white, though, that in the moment I have trouble discerning the difference, hence my question.
To take Jenn's example, I *do* use paper towels to wipe up milk or egg spills (allergens) and don't feel one bit guilty when I do that. But then all those handy paper towels are just sitting there...and I use them. Not excessively (like 10 when 2 would do), and yet I still feel guilty.
Also, it is quite easy to recycle here. We've recently gone "single stream" so every week they will pick it all up at our house. But I have to wash it and take it out...so it often sits around the sink looking ugly for a day (or 3). Maybe I feel the sin is just that I'm lazy, not so much that I tossed a can?
This is probably outside the scope of my original question, but I feel like it's a catch 22... I either am wasteful (possibly sinning?) or I am an overwhelmed shrew to my family (definitely sinning). I wish this was easier. It's hard enough that most people think I'm ruining the earth just by my family's existence (never mind the fact that our neighbor who live 1-3 people in a house all toss out more cans of garbage than we do, LOL!)
Sorry to ramble.
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amyable
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| Posted: Jan 07 2011 at 12:56pm | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
I think this would fall under habits and wastefulness. Just examine if you need or have room to change. If there is, try to establish a different habit. If this is a necessity, by all means, don't give it another thought! |
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I missed "or have room to change" the first time around. Very wise! Maybe that is where I personally belong. "No room." Sometimes I just can't do "one more thing." But then the perfectionism rears it's ugly head. OF COURSE you can do one more thing, Amy, just get to it and stop whining! To which I usually answer by bursting into tears and saying, "No, I can't." Then I think God is mad. All because of recycling.
Do I sound crazy to you? Why don't other people worry about this stuff?
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JodieLyn
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Sooooooo Which of your children are you going to pass this relatively simple job to? I have several younger ones that would be great at rinsing things out. 
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LucyP
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I don't think it is a sin, but we do teach our dc that care for mother earth is important and that when we care for God's creation we are respecting God and honouring Him. If we were all more careful and respectful of the Creation, there would be more food and resources to share among the people God has made, so our "greeness" is aimed at honouring God through honouring people also.
So I do "tell the children off" (and myself) for wasting things and we are always looking for ways to reduce consumption, re-use and recycle, but I would only confess/urge the children to confess something that was deliberate and malicious - like pouring poison into water because I couldn't be bothered to go to the tip, or dropping litter because they couldn't be bothered to find a bin.
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amyable
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JodieLyn wrote:
| Sooooooo Which of your children are you going to pass this relatively simple job to? I have several younger ones that would be great at rinsing things out. |
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LOL, that sounds great in theory, but we are already struggling here with getting them to do the few tasks they already have! 
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MaryM
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| Posted: Jan 07 2011 at 1:38pm | IP Logged
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amyable wrote:
| but I feel this incredible sense of guilt when I'm throwing out my 100th paper towel in a day |
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My dad was an ardent conservationist who cared deeply about the environment and our role as stewards of creation...and was a big user of paper towels, too... Which had to be hidden from him by my mom - not for environmental sake, but cost...
I'm enjoying this conversation and don't have time now, but will comment more later.
Amy, don't stress  .
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Lara Sauer
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As the daughter of a paper industry worker from Wisconsin, I would like to remind you that trees are a RENEWABLE resource! They are a crop, like any other living thing...they just have a longer life cycle!
So, as far as I am concerned, you should happily reach for those paper towels, and remind yourself that when you do, you are keeping a great many people employed...from the tree farmer, to the mill worker, to the paper distributor!
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Amanda
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When it's weighing on my heart that I really haven't been doing as well as I could have in this area, I usually confess it under the heading of not having been the best steward I could be. (Of course, I'm usually less conservationist during the times when when I'm feeling overwhelmed in general, so I've likely been a poor steward of our financial resources, too).
I don't consider it a sin to have failed to implement every possible "green" strategy in our lives, but if I have a system set up and I'm just feeling too lazy to follow through, that's different. This is just my personal take on this, though!
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JennGM
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Well, Amy, I'm a failure in a whole lot of areas. Some things are more important than others. This falls into the lesser area, and the last I'm going to confess. The bigger important areas are the ones that need attention.
I have those "guilt" pangs, but as Lara kindly pointed out, this is renewable, and also paper towels break down. So, don't give it another thought.
Another plus on paper towels is less germs during the flu season. That's another reason I like to use them here.
Sometimes the poster projects for the "green" effort aren't always that effective, but as mothers we're easily convinced we have to save the world one jar and paper towel at a time. The recycling is such a good idea, but I've read several places that it isn't as effective and some places it's all going to the same place.
For me, my family comes first. If you know your triggers, Amy, don't give it another thought by putting that jar in the can. If it makes you feel better, tell yourself you can't waste the water to wash it clean. You need to feel in control. You're in the process of working on other habits. When these are tackled, the job of recycling can be brought back.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Oh, I meant to add what I do. I'm no person to imitate, but just as an example. We have our recycle bin in the garage, so it's the extra step to take the things out. The things do clutter up the counter until they go out. I prefer to put them in a plastic grocery bag and then bring a bunch out, but dh hates that method. And sending out my son to put it in the bin we keep having a problem with him moving the bin and my dh can't put the car in. So, I choose my battles. When I don't have the time to follow through with my son, and I can't bring them out without ease (making dinner on time, other time constraints), I will throw them away.
Sometimes I feel guilty, but I dismiss it. I do other small things, I'm not a big waster, and I am going to do small steps -- I don't need to save the whole world at all once.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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MaryM
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Lara Sauer wrote:
| As the daughter of a paper industry worker from Wisconsin, I would like to remind you that trees are a RENEWABLE resource! They are a crop, like any other living thing...they just have a longer life cycle! |
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 That's right. And paper towels biodegrade quickly.
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Mary M. in Denver
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Silly question
