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Kathryn UK
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| Posted: March 25 2006 at 12:27pm | IP Logged
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threesilosfarm wrote:
Monastaries are separate but equal, aren't they?
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Not always. The Church has a long tradition of double monasteries with monks and nuns sharing the same site, and there are still a few. In the middle ages double monasteries were often headed by an Abbess who was responsible for the monks as well as the nuns. St.Hilda of Whitby is a good example.
The Catholic Encyclopedia entry on double monasteries includes this explanation:
"In many double monasteries the supreme rule was in the hands of the abbess, and monks as well as nuns were subject to her authority. This was especially the case in England, e.g. in St. Hilda's at Whitby and St. Etheldreda's at Ely, though elsewhere, but more rarely, it was the abbot who ruled both men and women, and sometimes, more rarely still, each community had its own superior independent of the other. The justification for the anomalous position of a woman acting as the superior of a community of men is usually held to originate from Christ's words from the Cross, "Woman, behold thy son; Son, behold thy mother"; and it is still further urged that maternity is a form of authority dereved from nature, whilst that which is paternal is merely legal. But, whatever may be its origin, the supreme rule of an abbess over both men and women was deliberately revived, and sanctioned by the Church, in two of the three medieval orders that consisted of double monasteries. At Fontevrault (founded 1099) and with the Bridgettines (1346), the abbess was the superior of monks as well as nuns, though with the Gilbertines (1146) it was the prior who ruled over both."
Sorry, I digress ... but I'm rather partial to St.Hilda 
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Dh Michael,  Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06)  (11/07)
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Maddie
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I'm not clear, did they live together or were they near each other, but in separate buildings? Were their days, meals, etc. taken in common? This would be interesting to know.
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Kathryn UK
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| Posted: March 25 2006 at 4:33pm | IP Logged
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I think they lived separately, in separate buildings, but shared one Church and worshipped together. We have a nearby Benedictine monastery that has both monks and nuns and this is the arrangement there. They do have occasional shared meals, but I doubt they did this in the middle ages!
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Kathryn
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JennGM
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I remember reading in passing about men and women in monasteries...I didn't quite understand until I read Regine Pernoud's book Women in the Days of Cathedrals. I loved that book! I learned so many things new on the aspect of women during those times. The double monasteries aspect was fascinating, and she has several examples.
Since Middle Ages is your forte, I was wondering if you reccommend her works? I'm reading Those Terrible Middle Ages now, and saw that Ignatius has some newer titles, including one on Martin of Tours that I'm eager to read.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Kathryn UK
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| Posted: March 26 2006 at 10:01am | IP Logged
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Sorry Jenn, I haven't read any of her books. Our library has a few, so I'll check them out. Don't hold your breath, though . I'm better at sleeping than reading at the moment!
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Kathryn
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JennGM
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Women in the Days of the Cathedrals I can't recommend highly enough. I know some parts are dry, but it was an eye opener as to how much freedom, responsiblity, and respect females had in society and the Church. Women lost many freedoms during classical times with the implementation of the Napoleonic Code. So many things that our feminist culture has tried to "buck" come from Classical Times and not Biblical or the Middle Ages.
Pernoud really does a great job in toppling the misconceptions that women were subservient beings during the Middles ages, and smashes the present thought that the Church treated women as less than a man.
I do understand about the lack of reading energy...Just take care of yourself and that baby!
Once I read about the double monasteries, I wondered why St Benedict didn't have one with Scholastica. Or Francis with St. Clare?
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Kathryn UK
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Jenn, guess what I found on my bookshelves last night, sitting unread for so long I forgot I had it ... Those Terrible Middle Ages . I skimmed through last night and thought it was good at doing what it set out to do - debunk French prejudice against the Middle Ages - but didn't particularly translate well for a British (or I should think, American) reader. The general view of the Middle Ages tends to be much less jaundiced in the English speaking world, and more romanticised - Robin Hood, King Arthur, Ivanhoe and so on. Also, her style wasn't the easiest to read. I felt it needed a more Anglicized translation.
The best book I know for getting a feel for the Middle Ages is
The Making of the Middle Ages by R.W.Southern. It is still in print after fifty years, which is in itself a pretty good recommendation. It isn't an introductory, what-happened-when sort of book, so might be a bit hard to get into without any background knowledge, but it is beautifully written and well worth the effort to read. It focuses on the eleventh and twelfth centuries and really brings them to life. Southern's book on medieval Church history, Western Society and the Church in the Middle Ages is also excellent.
Women in the Age of the Cathedrals does sound good. Her conclusions would not come as a surprise to any medievalist, but most of the "women's history" books on the period are written from an irritatingly feminist perspective.
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JennGM
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kathryn uk wrote:
| Also, her style wasn't the easiest to read. I felt it needed a more Anglicized translation. |
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Her perspective/expertise is medieval France. I didn't mind it, but I'm across the pond, so maybe that's why.
I'll look into the other books you mention.
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Kathryn UK
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| Posted: March 28 2006 at 2:29am | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
kathryn uk wrote:
| Also, her style wasn't the easiest to read. I felt it needed a more Anglicized translation. |
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Her perspective/expertise is medieval France. I didn't mind it, but I'm across the pond, so maybe that's why.
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I wasn't very clear, but I meant the actual French-English translation. It read to me as a very literal translation, which could have been made easier for English speakers to read with a bit of rearrangement of sentence structure.
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JennGM
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Kathryn UK wrote:
JennGM wrote:
kathryn uk wrote:
| Also, her style wasn't the easiest to read. I felt it needed a more Anglicized translation. |
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Her perspective/expertise is medieval France. I didn't mind it, but I'm across the pond, so maybe that's why.
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I wasn't very clear, but I meant the actual French-English translation. It read to me as a very literal translation, which could have been made easier for English speakers to read with a bit of rearrangement of sentence structure. |
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 My first reading that's what I thought you meant...it is a translation, and you probably can read the original. But my second readings I interpreted your words differently.
Now you see I have a problem with just understanding my own native tongue! Shameful!
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Double Monasteries
