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Barbara C.
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| Posted: March 01 2010 at 12:47pm | IP Logged
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I know that Sundays don't count during Lent when they are counting up the 40 days, because each Sunday is considered a "mini-Easter".
However, is there an OFFICIAL ruling on whether one is given an exemption from their Lenten observance on Sundays.
Everything I can find basically says that according to the letter of the law Sundays don't count, but in the spirit of the law one should count Sundays. I was just wondering if there is anything OFFICIAL. I'm terrible at searching the catechism.
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JodieLyn
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Off the top of my head.. what I've learned is that because Sundays are a mini-Easter and so a "feast" day that fasting is inappropriate.. but that neither would an all out FEAST be completely appropriate during the season of Lent.
And I can't find my Catechism.  or I'd try looking things up.. I know there's one online but I really like holding it in my hands. 
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Kathryn
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I remember our priest mentioning one year that the things we have chosen to abstain from during Lent are permitted on Sundays. I know that's not officially what you were looking for but that's what we were told. ?!
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LucyP
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I usually let the children relax their observances on a Sunday but I stick to mine...but officially I don;t know. A friend who is a better and more experienced catholic than me was quite shocked to find out that we relax the penances on a Sunday so I don't know....
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LeeAnn
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I think it's up to the individual to decide whether to continue the various penitential practices they're doing for Lent on Sundays. Some people give up meat entirely for Lent, not just on Fridays. It depends on the temptation and purpose of your fasting as well.
I allow my kids to have their Sunday donuts and a dessert on Sundays even though we've given up sweets during Lent. Also we have a family movie (or watch the Olympics) on Sunday although we're not watching tv during the week. And so on. But still we keep the things we allow on Sundays to be more restrained...not a full-out feast like you would for Easter or a party (unless your birthday happens to fall in Lent, I guess!).
Other people though might want their families to keep the fast for the whole week including Sundays. I don't want my kids to get too discouraged though. They give up things more willingly when they know there is a reward at the end. Don't we take that tack at life too? Heaven is our ultimate reward and our sacrifices here help us get there. Baby steps for the kids...a week of penance at a time will do. Practice makes perfect!
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folklaur
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okay, New Advent's Catholic Encyclopedia says this:
Quote:
| But, what more particularly regards Lent, successive indults have been granted by the Holy See allowing meat at the principal meal, first on Sundays, and then on two, three, four, and five weekdays, throughout nearly the whole of Lent. Quite recently, Maundy Thursday, upon which meat was hitherto always forbidden, has come to share in the same indulgence. In the United States, the Holy See grants faculties whereby working men and their families may use flesh meat once a day throughout the year, except Fridays, Ash Wednesday, Holy Saturday, and the vigil of Christmas. The only compensation imposed for all these mitigations is the prohibition during Lent against partaking of both fish and flesh at the same repast. |
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so - since they are indults, they aren't going to be in the catechism, i don't think.
just as in interesting note, i did also find the American regulations as of 1913:
Quote:
| Diversity in customs, in climate, and in prices of food have gradually paved the way for modifications of the law of abstinence. Throughout the United States the ordinary Saturday is no longer a day of abstinence. During Lent, in virtue of an indult, the faithful are allowed to eat meat at their principal meal on Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, the second and last Saturdays excepted. The use of meat on such days is not restricted to the principal meal for such as are exempt from fasting by reason of ill health, age, or laborious occupations. Eggs, milk, butter, and cheese, formerly prohibited, are now permitted without restriction as far as the day of the week is concerned. The use of lard or dripping in preparing fish and vegetables at all meals and on all days is allowed by an indult issued 3 August, 1887. It is never lawful to take fish with flesh, at the same meal, during Lent, Sundays included (Benedict XIV, Litt. ad Archiep. Compostel., 10 June, 1745, ap. Bucceroni, Enchiridion Morale, 147). At other times this is not prohibited (Bucceroni, ib.). On Wednesdays and Fridays, as well as on the second and last Saturdays of Lent, flesh meat is not permitted. Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays during Ember Week are still days of abstinence and fasting. The vigils of Christmas, Pentecost, Assumption, and All Saints are also days of abstinence and fasting. In virtue of faculties granted by the Holy See, workingmen, and their families as well, may use flesh meat once a day on all abstinence days throughout the year except Fridays, Ash Wednesday, Holy Saturday, and the vigil of Christmas. This indult was issued for ten years, 15 March 1895, and renewed for another decade on 25 February, 1905. (See "Exposition of Christian Doctrine", Philadelphia, 1899, II, 528-529 Spirago-Clarke, "The Catechism Explained", New York, 1900; Diocesan Regulations for Lent.) |
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and some is probably up to your Bishop too. again - that won't be in the catechism....
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JennGM
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I don't think this will fall in the Catechism directly, because these are personal practices and penances, so how you interpret when or how to implement them is just you, not affecting the whole Church, nor binding.
What Laura refers to is a good indicator of how the Church viewed Sundays historically. My MIL was just telling us how they definitely did not have have to fast on Sundays. And what a good Mother the Church is, to allow the faithful to gain some strength. With the strict fasts, it seems that there wasn't enough fat or protein to keep up energy for long!
But looking at today's Church, the focus on how Sundays are a little Easter. Sundays point to the Paschal Mystery, reinforcing that we are celebrating the Resurrection again every Sunday. Never has the Church imposed fasting or penitential regulations on Solemnities or Sundays.
So, in a roundabout way, yes, Sundays are a little Easter and not penitential in nature. But it's up to you how you want to relax or not relax your own penances.
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hylabrook1
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And you know, when my Lenten sacrifice is to give up ice cream, I absolutely CANNOT let myself relax the rules on Sunday, because letting me have ANY ice cream will make the difficulty of going without SO MUCH GREATER!
Another question: What do all do when there are family birthdays during Lent? We go ahead and have cake and ice cream for our two March birthday girls, because we wouldn't want them to have a bitter reaction to Lenten fasting practices just because they would have never celebrated their birthdays as children.
Peace,
Nancy
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JodieLyn
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We have the parties on a day other than Friday.. and treat it like any other feast day during Lent and have their special meal and cake etc.
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JennGM
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JodieLyn wrote:
| We have the parties on a day other than Friday.. and treat it like any other feast day during Lent and have their special meal and cake etc. |
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Ditto. Although the only feasts we celebrate with treats are the solemnities, St. Joseph and Annunciation. We do tend to move it to Sundays.
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folklaur
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hylabrook1 wrote:
Another question: What do all do when there are family birthdays during Lent? We go ahead and have cake and ice cream for our two March birthday girls, because we wouldn't want them to have a bitter reaction to Lenten fasting practices just because they would have never celebrated their birthdays as children.
Peace,
Nancy |
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we celebrate on their birthday, no matter what day it is.
but we do a more strict fast for the rest of Lent anyway, like the Eastern rites or the Orthodox.
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ekbell
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What I've told my children is that we can word our private 'giving ups' to allow for such things as Sundays or birthdays during Lent if it seems appropriate (as an example "I am giving up sweets for lent except for dessert on Sundays & Solemnities and cake & icecream on family celebrations of birthdays").
We moved the birthday celebration completely when one daughter's birthday fell on Good Friday! Not just no cake and special meal but everything to do with a birthday. She thought it neat to celebrate her birthday during the Easter season, something that won't happen very often.
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Carole N.
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As a family, we tend to relax a bit on Sunday keeping in mind that you should never fast on a feast day. But as stated, it is a personal decision. I have many friends who fast throughout Lent including Sundays. I admire them for it, but I think that for us, it is nice to have a sweet or a glass of wine along with a nice meal.
We also have a birthday and sometimes our wedding anniversary falls during Lent. We tend to feast on these days as well; however, our anniversary has fallen on Holy Thursday/Good Friday, so when this occurs, we move the celebration to a later date.
Trying to observe the liturgical year, we tend to celebrate the feast days. Observing St. Patrick's day, St. Joseph and the Annunciation is part of our Lenten tradition.
But I wonder about St. Joseph's feast this year since it falls on a Friday. We will be visiting with brother (who is not Catholic) for the day. I was just wondering how do we handle this feast? I remember a few years ago, the bishops gave permission to celebrate St. Patrick's feast on a Friday. So what do we do this year?
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JennGM
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Carole N. wrote:
We also have a birthday and sometimes our wedding anniversary falls during Lent. We tend to feast on these days as well; however, our anniversary has fallen on Holy Thursday/Good Friday, so when this occurs, we move the celebration to a later date.
Trying to observe the liturgical year, we tend to celebrate the feast days. Observing St. Patrick's day, St. Joseph and the Annunciation is part of our Lenten tradition.
But I wonder about St. Joseph's feast this year since it falls on a Friday. We will be visiting with brother (who is not Catholic) for the day. I was just wondering how do we handle this feast? I remember a few years ago, the bishops gave permission to celebrate St. Patrick's feast on a Friday. So what do we do this year?
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Hi Carole! I know whose birthday is in Lent. 
Eat your meat on St. Joseph's day without guilt.
As regards to St. Patrick and St. Joseph, the difference is the ranking of their feast. In the USA, St. Patrick is only an Optional Memorial, the lowest rank for the Universal Calendar. And since his feast always falls in Lent, the liturgical vestments will still be violet/purple because Lent weekday liturgy "trumps" optional memorials. So the color will be violet, the readings will be for the Lent weekday, but the Mass prayers can be for St. Patrick, but it is optional, so some priests might not.
I know, the Irish are gasping in horror.  But believe it or not, St. Patrick doesn't always have universal significance. I know in Ireland it is a solemnity, and there they wear white and everything regarding St. Joseph and his solemnity is applied in Ireland. But not in the US.)
If St. Patrick's Day falls on a Friday it would need an episcopal dispensation from abstinence. The bishop has to give that permission because it is outside the norm.
Now St. Joseph is on the universal calendar as a Solemnity. That means in all countries his day is white vestments, the Gloria is said, the Creed is recited, there are special readings for his feast, with a second, Epistle, reading, and the prayers are for St. Joseph. This isn't an option; it is universal in the Church. There are some countries that make this a holy day of obligation (but it's still a solemnity), but in USA diocese it is not a holy day of obligation.
On Solemnities and Sundays no fasting or abstinence is the norm. You do not have to wait for diocesan rulings on this. (One year I called to verify and asked if the bishop was going to lift the abstinence and it was explained to me that it's not necessary; it's automatic.)
You can still abstain from meat; there's no obligation to NOT eat meat
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I know I went on and on explaining above, but here's the Canon with that ruling:
Code of Canon Law wrote:
| Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. |
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Martha in VA
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JennGM wrote:
I know I went on and on explaining above, but here's the Canon with that ruling:
Code of Canon Law wrote:
| Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. |
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Jenn,
This is so great to know as we have a BIRTHDAY on St. Joseph's day as well. Thanks!
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And of course you know that solemnities begin the evening before and run through midnight of the next day.
My kids always seem to feel compelled to point that out.
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MicheleQ
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Oh and I just wanted to reiterate what Jenn said in that there is no official ruling on whether one is given an exemption from their Lenten observance on Sundays because there's no official requirement in terms of personal Lenten observances. It's a question I often get in RCIA.
I read recently that the ancient fathers forbade fasting on Sundays. We don't do it here and Lenten observances are also lifted (with restraint --if you gave up videos games you don't get to play all day on Sunday). Yes it can make it harder during the week but I think that's kind of a good thing. Yes, I'm mean. 
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: March 02 2010 at 5:44pm | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
| You can still abstain from meat; there's no obligation to NOT eat meat |
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But this would be a Lenten Friday when it would be perfectly appropriate to go out to dinner at Red Lobster!
I'm just sayin'. . .
Actually I am going to try and sell that to my dh. 
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Carole N.
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MicheleQ wrote:
JennGM wrote:
| You can still abstain from meat; there's no obligation to NOT eat meat |
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But this would be a Lenten Friday when it would be perfectly appropriate to go out to dinner at Red Lobster!
I'm just sayin'. . .
Actually I am going to try and sell that to my dh. |
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We don't have Red Lobster, but we have an ocean on three sides, so fish is no problem for us! In fact, my dh and I really enjoy having a fish meal...makes abstaining on Friday a challenge since we enjoy fish so much.
Thanks for responding Jenn. I seem to remember some of what you wrote since some dioceses had the dispensation and some did not regarding St. Patrick's Day. I suspose it depended on where you lived in the States. And yes, it is a big celebration over here whether you are Irish or not!
And I also know of someone who has a Lenten birthday as well...
ETA: And I can be mean as well, Michele! It is a bit tougher with teens, but I think it is important to set the standard.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Sundays in Lent Don't Count?
