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MarilynW
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| Posted: Aug 22 2009 at 5:41pm | IP Logged
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My dd has an Apologetics blog. One of her Presbytarian friends has asked her the following question:
So, when you say that Mary is without sin, does that mean that Jesus actually *wasn't* the only perfect human?
I know the answer is yes - but we need some help in giving more explanation. (my brain is just so tired at the moment that I am struggling)
Thank you!
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Marilyn
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JodieLyn
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Where does the Bible say that Jesus was the only perfect human?
This is a bit of smoke and mirrors.. sounds like what you're saying (that Mary was without sin) is horrible and impinging on what should only be Christ's.
Aren't we all perfectly without sin at the moment of Baptism?
The angel Gabriel greeted Mary "hail, full of grace" to be full of grace is to be without sin.
Luke 1:28
related verses
Ex 25:10-22
Gen 3:15
Luke 1:49
(from Friendly Defenders cards  )
You can also look at it as those old testament prefigures of the new testament.. the new testament ones were always more perfect (Adam to Jesus) And in this case the Ark of the Covenant and Mary.
She still required a savior to keep her from sin, it was just done differently in that sin was not allowed to touch her vs the rest of us who are saved after the fact.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Aug 22 2009 at 6:26pm | IP Logged
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Oh and you could also run into the whole "snow over dungheap" type of thing.. That Jesus/Baptism/etc doesn't actually remove all the sin, but just covers it.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Aug 22 2009 at 6:53pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
| She still required a savior to keep her from sin, it was just done differently in that sin was not allowed to touch her vs the rest of us who are saved after the fact. |
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This is correct. Our Lady still needed a savior, and the Catholic Church doesn't teach that she didn't. By God's grace, she was preserved from sin from the moment of her conception. We are cleansed from sin through baptism after our birth.
Luke 1:37 wrote:
| For with God nothing shall be impossible. |
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She could not be absolutely opposed to sin (Genesis 3:15) if she possessed a sinful nature.
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And some of Jodie's other quotes specifically the one citing Exodus referring to the ark of the covenant and Revelation 11:19-12:1 speak of Our Lady as ark of the new covenant...
Quote:
| Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple...a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet..." |
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The ark of the covenant was purest gold, the ark of the new covenant was of purest flesh.
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As a followup on Jodie's excellent explanation...When St. Paul writes in Romans 3:23...
Quote:
| "ALL HAVE SINNED and are deprived of the glory of God." |
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St. Paul is trying to emphasize that both Gentiles and Jews alike are sinners. There are some obvious exceptions that fall outside of St. Paul's condemnation...
** Babies have not sinned
** Adam and Eve were full of grace and sinless before the fall
** Jesus never sinned
** Our Lady, preserved from sin by God's grace from the moment of her conception, was without sin.
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Jen Mackintosh
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MarilynW
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| Posted: Aug 22 2009 at 7:29pm | IP Logged
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thank you so much - you are the best. dd says to say thanks too - she wants to answer her friend today and has been struggling to come up with a reply.
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Marilyn
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Apologetics question - please help!
