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RA's Mom
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| Posted: June 24 2009 at 10:16pm | IP Logged
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What are your behavioral expectations for circa two-year-olds during mass? How long should they keep quiet and what do you do with them the rest of the time? We don't have access to a nursery. If we're in the vestibule and I can still hear the priest than everyone else can hear us. The good thing is that we're in a small international community and everyone has been very patient with us.
After a miserable crying, shouting, no-praying, "why don't we get a sitter Sunday evenings?" mass, my husband and I have started making more of an effort to involve my little daughter. We lift her to the font to bless herself, help her distribute hymnals, give her a little money for the collection basket, hold hands for the Our Father and encourage her to shake hands with others during the passing of the peace. Last week and yesterday I tried talking to her about the readings and giving her a kind of key word to listen for "water" "John". She can't handle the verbiage of the responses.
The biggest sanity saver so far is that we take the homily off and go out then so she can nurse or run-around. I don't know what this does for her expectations but it makes holding a struggling toddler during the rest of the mass bearable for me. Still I miss the days of pious reflections. I want my daughter to learn some stillness and respect but not associate church with chastising. I'm interested in more suggestions and strategies for helping us both stay a little closer to God during mass.
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LeeAnn
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| Posted: June 24 2009 at 10:46pm | IP Logged
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I think you're doing all the right things. My 3yo son is just getting to the point where he can make it through the entire Mass about once or twice a month. Our parish has a live-feed video of the Mass going on in the parish hall, and previously we took turns sitting in there with him. Now we usually can make it at least through the Gospel before having to take him for a walk. Sometimes he is as good as gold and makes it through the entire thing. Yeah, there is not much stillness and quiet either physically or mentally for pious reflection. But it's not forever that it's going to be this way, you know? I tend not to bring too much to entertain the little ones. Sometimes a book or a little toy--although mostly he likes to play with the missal--and in very desperate situations, a little snack.  Some people like to bring holy cards on a keychain or special things that are only brought out on Sunday mornings. My husband and I very occasionally go to different Masses and once a month we go to another parish where they have babysitting, so that can be a welcome respite. Don't feel guilty about missing the homily though--you might be feeling left out or regret missing it, but it isn't the most important part of the Mass, after all. There will be plenty more homilies and Masses in your life after the chasing-toddlers phase is over.
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KauaiCatholic
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| Posted: June 24 2009 at 11:05pm | IP Logged
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LeeAnn wrote:
| There will be plenty more homilies and Masses in your life after the chasing-toddlers phase is over. |
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Amen! as someone who is just past those days (and some Sundays we relapse a tad, to be perfectly honest) I don't have any different advice, but just wanted to chime in with support and second these great suggestions. when they are too little to pay attention for the whole Mass, I am happy to have them quietly looking at Bible stories as a second best. (my DD loves toting around those little New Testaments printed up by the Gideons, and my DS loved the Rosemarie Gortler books. Bible lift-the-flap books were also a big hit.) small, church-only toys help; we pack them in a special purse with lots of flaps and pockets (no zippers!).
and remember, as someone kindly told me after a particularly trying Mass, God smiles on the frazzled mothers in the back just as much as the pious folks in the front. 
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LucyP
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My daughter is 2. I remember with our son, the 18 month -3 year phase was worst. By 3, our son knew what was expected and could connect to a consequence of being made to stand in silence in the hallway if he was disruptive. AT the point we didn't go to a Catholic church, as we are converts - and we were the only people often with children in the service.
For our two year old, our expectation is that she not scream, cry or speak above a whisper, except during hymns when she warbles away. We are working on standing still and silent for gospel, and during the consecration she is expected to be silent - we sit up front and I will whisper "look the miracle is happening" - and she knows the bread and wine become Jesus, but unfortunately that means once or twice she has said loudly "Jesus on a table?" Both children have mass books and a book of saints to look at, as well as holy cards on a key ring, and DD is allowed to look through my bag when she gets restless. Basically we try to keep her engaged, but when that would provoke noise or kerfuffle we let her sit on the floor and fiddle quietly. the only bit we insist on her looking forward and paying attention for is the consecration.
I always find that we will get to the end of a Mass and think "goodness how naughty she has been" only to have an elderly lady sitting behind us comment on how good the children are. And DS, 5, genuinely is very good and very focussed - DD, well she is getting there. We practise church manners on an (almost!) twice daily basis at family prayers and rosary - right now we are really working on not fooling about for the gospel reading.
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mary
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my youngest just turned 3 and i'm finally ahhhh at mass. i'll add a few suggestions. sit as close to the front as you can. bring a church bag with crayons, a coloring book (mine loves the noah's ark coloring books), a knotted rosary, and a mass book. ours has a page of search and find on one of the pages but we also use it to search and find in our church. i also provide fruit leather for snacking. i know that some pple really dislike toddlers "picnicking" during mass but i'm not one of them! speaking of food, my kid will work for donuts. if she's good at mass, there will be donuts after mass. good luck and remember that it will pass.
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jdostalik
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The only thing I can add to all the words of wisdom above are words given to me by a veteran mother when I had my oldest daughter turn 2. Don't let them play when you take them to the vestibule or outside. The little smarties will pick up on the fact that all the running and playing and fun happens outside of Mass and they will get the wiggles a lot sooner!
So, when I grab a kid and run for the hills, I insist on holding them or making them stay close to my side the whole time...no running and playing with all the other wild kiddos in the narthex or outside...Sometimes, this is so exhausting--after all a 2 year old is HEAVY, but my dh manages way better than I do... 
And when your little one has older brothers or sisters who are reverent at Mass, things will progress a bit quicker (though all our 2 year olds end up in the vestibule for a period of time!)...
Hugs to you! 
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CrunchyMom
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jdostalik wrote:
The only thing I can add to all the words of wisdom above are words given to me by a veteran mother when I had my oldest daughter turn 2. Don't let them play when you take them to the vestibule or outside. The little smarties will pick up on the fact that all the running and playing and fun happens outside of Mass and they will get the wiggles a lot sooner!
So, when I grab a kid and run for the hills, I insist on holding them or making them stay close to my side the whole time...no running and playing with all the other wild kiddos in the narthex or outside...Sometimes, this is so exhausting--after all a 2 year old is HEAVY, but my dh manages way better than I do...
And when your little one has older brothers or sisters who are reverent at Mass, things will progress a bit quicker (though all our 2 year olds end up in the vestibule for a period of time!)...
Hugs to you! |
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Yes, this! My husband and I call it the "their feet can't touch the floor" rule. It is tough with a squirmy, heavy toddler, but if you get taken out, you have to be held, and they don't like it nearly as much as their little friends who get to run around in the back of church! Fortunately, my husband is usually able to take holding duty since he is stronger than myself.
ETA: We joke that once their feet hit the floor, it is all over. If you have let them walk around and that is their expectation, it takes a month or more to get them "trained" again to not expect it. So, if that isn't what you've been doing, it might be extra hard at first!
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SuzanneG
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jdostalik wrote:
Don't let them play when you take them to the vestibule or outside.........
So, when I grab a kid and run for the hills, I insist on holding them or making them stay close to my side the whole time...no running and playing |
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We do this too....thanks to another daddy/mommy telling us this about 8 years ago. I think it makes a huge difference. And it usually is dh who is doing it, as I'm usually pregnant and  by the time we have a toddler in the back. He does whatever he can with them to distract, etc......but just doesn't let them down. BEFORE going in the vestibule, we can usually "buy" about 5-10 minutes walking back and forth in the back of the church, THEN go to the back. Then come back in, etc.....just the change of scenery helps. We sometimes take the backpack too....as sometimes they are much happier on the back than being held. If they scream and throw a fit, we just simply walk outside, and the change of scenery usually calms them down, OR it's fine if they're "fitting"....no one can hear them.
I'm doing it now with the 14-month-old and he asked the other day, why we aren't "taking turns".....I replied, "I'm front-loading." He slowly replied......"Oh......riiighhhhtt."
A mom-of-11 gave a talk at our local HS conference a couple months ago, and she wrote in her notes/handout:
Quote:
| Mom's job during family prayer time, as with meals, is to guide and nurture, NOT to be fed. |
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There is a certain extent to this with Mass too.....although OF COURSE we are being fed by just BEING PRESENT at this holy sacrifice. But, we are proabably not being prayerful all the time We're being fed by being obedient, and just being present.
She also mentioned that because of this, it's so important to make time for that prayer and recollected moments at other times. In this case, maybe the night before Mass, getting up 10 minutes early, or taking 5-10 minutes after you get home. We are being fed, and not getting frustrated.
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DominaCaeli
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I have a just-turned-3yo son and an almost 3yo daughter, and we attend the Traditional Latin Mass. Before my youngest daughter was born a few months ago, my husband and I each worked on training one child. My daughter is the more strong-willed one, so my husband had the responsibility for her. He expected her to stay quiet and obey during Mass. If she ever needed to be taken in back, he would hold her the entire time--we had the same "feet never hit the floor" rule that others have mentioned. We also made the point never to bring any toys or snacks and never to be afraid of putting her in time-out when necessary (she is very quick to misbehave when she knows we are hesitant to respond). My husband's hard work paid off: she hasn't needed to be taken out in about six months, I think.
My son is the more docile one, so he was under my care. I have higher expectations for him than for my daughter. He is expected to stay very quiet, mimic my postures, and keep his attention on the priest. Toward the middle of Mass (we go to High Mass, so it's quite long), his attention often starts to drift, but I call him back to looking at the altar during the consecration. He is very open to keeping his focus on the Mass but often needs to be reminded.
Praying the Rosary at home and talking with the kids about what they saw or are going to see at Mass has really helped their attention span too, I think.
The hardest stage for us so far has been the 6mo-2yo stage, when they're just too young for us to have any expectations at all for behavior during Mass. Now that I am spending most Masses in the back with my 5mo daughter...any advice for keeping a baby from shrieking and blowing raspberries during the homily?
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SuzanneG
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DominaCaeli wrote:
| Praying the Rosary at home and talking with the kids about what they saw or are going to see at Mass has really helped their attention span too, I think. |
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Up until a couple years ago, we spent about 5-10 min "playing Mass" each week.....role playing what we do and don't do during Mass.....as well as just talking about a particular part of the Mass. Just a little every week. We don't "need" to do it anymore, as the little ones have the example of the older ones now, but we still do it, just not as often and not exactly for the same reasons.
Quote:
| Now that I am spending most Masses in the back with my 5mo daughter...any advice for keeping a baby from shrieking and blowing raspberries during the homily? |
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Nope...no advice here....it's their way of saying "Amen!"
Also, linking to Helen's Mass Preparation for Children.
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CatholicMommy
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Forget the toddler age! My son was GREAT! It's NOW at age 5 when everyone (including HIM) knows that he knows better and he can be atrocious!
He can be the greatest kid in the whole world but if we are sitting in the wrong pew or someone tall is in front of him, or someone that smells funny (he has a very sensitive nose), or he is tired, or whatever - he'll block me from kneeling, from sitting on the pew, drop things from my purse to the pew ahead or behind us, lay under the pew and push the backs of people's shoes or knock over the kneeler behind us....
I'm reading all the ideas from above....
With all that said, he ALWAYS does better (usually not "perfect" but definitely acceptable and most welcome behavior) at the Traditional Latin Mass.... not sure why, other than it is so obviously different from the rest of the world where the Novus Ordo is harder for him to differentiate from other meetings we have in the church (until we get the Eucharist of course).
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JennGM
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CatholicMommy wrote:
| Forget the toddler age! My son was GREAT! It's NOW at age 5 when everyone (including HIM) knows that he knows better and he can be atrocious! |
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That's exactly what we have here. It's a new stage...and new challenges.
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Sharyn
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We find going to the earliest mass possible is helpful. So do about 4 other families in our parish with lots of little ones, and God bless everyone else at that mass because it certainly isn't quiet.
They are often still a bit sleepy and so calmer. Later in the day, even as late as 9am I find that they are more ready for play.
With my 2mnth old I just stand up the back when she's bored of all the little things I do to make her happy.
Which at that age just consist of swapping positions, peak a boo, sisterly/brotherly amusement.
It helps lots when you have older role models, my 3 yr old is quite good at mass because he sees from his sisters and brother how to behave.
I try to involve them in the mass in little ways like you are too. The important thing is they aren't disturbing others. There have been times when I've just had to go to the car with them and call it a day. But I always aim to allow this to happen as little as possible, and we don't play while we wait for Papa and the others to come out from mass. It's not punishment but it isn't exciting either, they usually opt to go back into the mass.
We don't encourage toilet trips during mass either. Otherwise this gets used as an excuse to have a half-time excursion too. This can be a tough one and they know it The question is do they really need to go and you are going to end up with a puddle if you don't go, or is it an excuse to go outside whereupon sitting on the toilet they will tell you with a beaming smile 'nothing there Mummy'. We get them to go before mass, and say little things like 'the toilet is broken' You usually know if it's serious if they can't be distracted from it.
Whatever they get used to is what they will expect. Our church is very small and old, it doesn't have a room at the back for children to play in. On those occassions where we have attended a church that does have one the childrens behaviour, even up to the older ones, is quite different, they can see other children playing and they loose their usual reasonable behaviour. But don't take this as a 'those rooms are bad'. Do what fits with you and your family.
It seems to me that you are doing just great, consider this a time to cultivate the virtue of great patience , and don't be hard on yourself if you don't seem to be attending mass quite in the way you might like. This is all part of being a mother.
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Kathryn UK
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Melanie Bettinelli just wrote a lovely blog post on this subject:
20 things you can do to help your toddler behave at Mass
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RA's Mom
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Thanks for the responses. We do need to train RA's expectations some, but it's interesting to reflect on how my expectations also need to change to accommodate a more elemental less verbal time in my spiritual life.
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: July 06 2009 at 5:21pm | IP Logged
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Linking Bridget's recent post:
Small Children at Mass
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Suzanne in ID
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Mass Expectations for Toddlers
