| Author | |
Vanna
Forum Pro
Joined: May 09 2008
Location: Kansas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 331
|
| Posted: July 18 2008 at 10:13am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
I have a friend who is very close to leaving her husband. Very close. He is a functional alcoholic. He drinks every day and gets really, really drunk about once every month or so. He's never hit her but he does scare her when he's like this. He doesn't think he has a problem because he holds down a job and does what he's supposed to do around the house.
I pray for her but as far as advice, I don't know what to say. She is miserable. She goes to couseling by herself because he refuses to go. She fears that his drinking is a horrible influence on the kids.
Anyone know what the church says on this? Is divorce ever the answer?
__________________
Wife to K  Mommy to B (ds18) and G (ds8)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: July 18 2008 at 10:32am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Vanna,
The Church's teaching is that a sacramental marriage validly contracted cannot be dissolved.
As far as civil divorce, it's a secular judgment that does not dissolve a sacramental marriage. That being said, there is no sin in contracting a divorce for legal or protective reasons. The sin involved is gaining a divorce and then remarrying. I'm just clarifying that, because there are some Catholic couples who have a divorce (one-sided) and they are still allowed to go to communion as long as they didn't remarry or aren't living in sin in another situation.
Sometimes for very specific reasons stated by Church law a marriage was never contracted, therefore it's an invalid marriage. That's what an annulment is. It's not a Catholic divorce, but just an official ruling that a marriage never existed before.
So, I'm answering in a roundabout way. Your friend's case is very hard and sad. It's good she's seeking counseling, and perhaps spiritual direction would be a real added bonus. Her priest might be able to help her discern if it's better for the children for her stay together or to leave him. And separation would be the first step. Sometimes legal separation is all one need to do, and sometimes situations can work out.
If she needed to apply for a civil divorce for legal and protective reasons, the divorce doesn't mean the marriage is over. It would merely be a legal document explaining rights and custody and money situations, and perhaps a change of name, declaring the marriage over in a secular sense, but in the eyes of God she will always be married to him if it was a legal sacramental marriage.
Does that make sense? As the question is broad, I wanted to hit a few points. I will pray for her situation. I know of many, many couples who went through some rocky times, with separations, even divorce, but then returned back to the marriage and the sacraments and are doing well.
God works in mysterious and wonderful ways. Your friend's best ally is being open and working with His Will.
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
DominaCaeli
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
|
| Posted: July 18 2008 at 10:32am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Here is what the Catechism has to say (emphasis mine):
Quote:
Divorce
2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble.174 He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.175
Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."176
2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.177
If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.
2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:
If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another's husband to herself.178
2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.
2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.179 |
|
|
In an abusive situation, the Church recognizes that separation may be best for the health of the spouses or children. I would suggest that she consult a holy priest.
__________________
Blessings,
Celeste
Joyous Lessons
Mommy to six: three boys (8, 4, newborn) and four girls (7, 5, 2, and 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: July 18 2008 at 10:33am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh, thanks, Celeste! Having the exact quotes from Canon Law does help!
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
folklaur
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2816
|
| Posted: July 18 2008 at 10:33am | IP Logged
|
|
|
The way I understand it - and others may be able to better explain it, or fix my answer if it is wrong - is that divorce is never really an option. If you can show that the marriage has never been valid, then an annullment is possible. A "legal" divorce (or separation) may be necessary to keep both parties safe, but understand that you are not now free to marry anyone else, as you are still "married" in the eyes of God.
Many prayers for your friend.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
folklaur
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2816
|
| Posted: July 18 2008 at 10:35am | IP Logged
|
|
|
whoops - seems everyone else was posting much more helpful stuff while I was typing  !
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
guitarnan
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Maryland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10883
|
| Posted: July 18 2008 at 10:45am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Yes, I will add my prayers...my s-i-l is divorcing her husband because of abuse/alcohol issues, and she was very confused about her status in the Church. Canon law is very clear. (Thanks, Celeste!)
Even so, civil divorce is sometimes not only necessary but the only way to protect yourself, your children and your future. Otherwise an abusive spouse can ruin you financially and poison your children's minds - abuse is a cycle that has to be broken, or the next generation has an increased tendency to be abusive.
If your friend meets with a wise priest, she will feel much better about taking control of the situation. In the best case, of course, leaving would induce the husband to face his issues and he might finally seek help.
I've watched my sister-in-law struggle with financial ruin, unruly kids (she waited a long time to leave) and lots of personal issues that relate to the abuse she endured. IMHO it would have been far better for her to leave years ago.
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MaryM
Board Moderator
Joined: Feb 11 2005
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13104
|
| Posted: July 18 2008 at 11:04am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Jenn, what a solid explanation along with the CCC quotes from Celeste.
I'll include another article from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
Quote:
| 1649 Yet there are some situations in which living together becomes practically impossible for a variety of reasons. In such cases the Church permits the physical separation of the couple and their living apart. The spouses do not cease to be husband and wife before God and so are not free to contract a new union. In this difficult situation, the best solution would be, if possible, reconciliation. The Christian community is called to help these persons live out their situation in a Christian manner and in fidelity to their marriage bond which remains indissoluble. |
|
|
Since these articles quoted from the Catechism have references to specific codes of Canon Law, I'm linking the applicable section of Canon Law.
Separation With the Bond Remaining
-A very hard and sad situation. I'll pray for them.
__________________
Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Vanna
Forum Pro
Joined: May 09 2008
Location: Kansas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 331
|
| Posted: July 18 2008 at 11:12am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks everyone. This makes much more sense to me now.
It is a very difficult situation. 
__________________
Wife to K Mommy to B (ds18) and G (ds8)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Angie Mc
Board Moderator
Joined: Jan 31 2005
Location: Arizona
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11400
|
| Posted: July 18 2008 at 11:27am | IP Logged
|
|
|
In addition to personal counseling and working with a holy priest, Al-Anon can be very helpful in discerning how to approach such a difficult living situation.
I am praying for your friend, her dh, and their whole family. Alcohol abuse and addiction is such a cross to carry, yet there is hope. Paraphrasing Gerald May from his book Addiction and Grace, addiction and all of its misery is often a very direct and intense path to God.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
About Me
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Jenn Sal
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 897
|
| Posted: July 18 2008 at 3:14pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Reading this post and don't have information to offer.
I will offer prayers asking for the intercession of St. Monica. I always knew about her troubles with her son, the wonderful St. Augustine, but then found out that her husband was abusive but because of her prayers converted on his death bed. Power of prayer and the virtue of HOPE! I go to her with any spouse issues.
__________________
Jennifer, Texas
Wife to Mark, Mom to Cora 13,Kade 10, Sarah in Heaven 12/05, Colette 7, Corin 5, & Kieran 2
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ladybugs
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3732
|
| Posted: July 19 2008 at 5:00pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Vanna,
I'm praying here, too!
__________________
Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mama251ders
Forum All-Star
Joined: Oct 21 2007
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 508
|
| Posted: July 21 2008 at 7:54am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi! I just wanted to chime in, having been divorced and having received an annulment. My first husband was an alcoholic and a drug addict and I found it necessary to leave for my child's safety. I obtained an annulment a few years later on the grounds of "conditions set upon the marriage." Basically that our marriage was not sacramental because I set the condition of being "clean and sober" upon our marriage at the get-go.
Anyway, I wanted to offer my prayers and support. Alcoholism is terrible and really wrecks a family. I can totally understand her feelings of wanting/needing to break out, I have been there and it is a dark and lonely place.
Also, I just wanted to correct something that Jenn wrote above (I mean no offense, I am just a little sensitive about this subject ). Jenn said that an annulment is an official ruling that the marriage never existed before. This is not exactly true. When an annulment is granted it means that the marriage was never sacramental, but that it did still exist. The children of the marriage are not then considered illegitimate. This was explained very carefully and many times to me. A civil annulment is the one that totally banishes any record of the marriage. My first marriage is still there on my church record, it just says "annulled" now.
I just wanted to make that clarification because the thought of the marriage never existing is sometimes the reason people stay in an unsafe marriage. If there is a question of safety for anyone, her best bet is to remover herself and her children (at least temporarily) and seek council.
Sorry this ended up being so long, it just struck a chord with me and I felt that I needed to respond. I don't have any quotes or official stuff, just own experience. I hope it helps in some way. I'm praying.
Blessings,
Betsie
__________________
Wife to Oliver
Mama to 5 Wonders
Benny, Braidon, Olivia, Anna and Saragh
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
insegnante
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 07 2006
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1143
|
| Posted: July 21 2008 at 6:45pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well, the Catechism actually says this: "1629 For this reason (or for other reasons that render the marriage null and void) the Church, after an examination of the situation by the competent ecclesiastical tribunal, can declare the nullity of a marriage, i.e., that the marriage never existed." (From http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm)
Non-sacramental marriages, involving one or two unbaptized parties, also need to be presumed to be valid "natural" marriages and examined for invalidity, although it is possible to dissolve them under some circumstances without saying they never validly existed. Here's a page that addresses that issue: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9312qq.asp
Any valid marriage between two baptized Christians is sacramental. A consummated sacramental marriage is absolutely indissoluble except by death.
But children are not considered "illegitimate" if there was a "putative" marriage, meaning at least one party in good faith believed they were validly married (Canon 1061 §3: "An invalid marriage is called putative if at least one party celebrated it in good faith, until both parties become certain of its nullity." From http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3V.HTM)
"Illegitimate" has such a negative emotional connotation but wherever it DOES apply, I think it's purely a legal term with legal ramifications, not saying "false" or "bad" like if someone were to say, I don't know, a bad argument or a college degree from a diploma mill is not "legitimate."
__________________
Theresa
mommy to three boys, 3/02, 8/04, and 9/10, and a girl, 8/08
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MaryM
Board Moderator
Joined: Feb 11 2005
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13104
|
| Posted: July 22 2008 at 5:19pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
A situation like you are describing, Vanna, is really hard and clearly the whole topic that surrounds this is sensitivie as well. The annulment process itself is complex and the associated legal/canonical language is tough to understand. Without the benefits of a canon lawyer to clarify and guide discussion  , it seems best to focus on the original question - for which there have been many resources given. And of course continued prayer for the involved parties and all families facing the effects of alcohol abuse.
__________________
Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Is Divorce ever an option??
