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JennGM
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I just received today a copy of The Kitchen Madonna by Rumer Godden. I just gobbled it up. It's such a delightful story, and I was just thrilled that the main character's name is Gregory.
This book could be used as a springboard or part of a rabbit trail in so many ways -- Maytime and Mary, making Madonnas; art study of icons and home traditions, Ukraine, link in pysanky eggs and Easter and other traditions. I just wanted to sit down and start making a madonna like Gregory did in the book, it sounded so wonderful.
I have a quick question, and it's more geographic and cultural. Rumer Godden identifies Marta as from the Polish Ukraine. This is the first time I've heard of such combination. Can anyone fill me on on whether there is such a place? I understand there is a shared border. Do they speak Polish but live in Ukraine? Do they follow the Polish rites or Ukrainian rites?
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MaryM
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Wow, right now I'm preparing to do this book for our 'tween girl's book club on Friday. We've just started and this is the first book we are doing. My daughter loved it and I am hearing the same from all the other mothers. I just started it last night (so I can be ready  ). We are using the awesome resources that Matilda put together and posted on her blog here. Your questions are interesting, Jenn. I don't know but am intrigued as well.
EDITED: to add Matilda's follow-up posts.
Beautiful examples of the icon madonnas they made.
Post with links to the downloadable templates.
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Mary M. in Denver
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lapazfarm
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I just finished In this House of Brede by the same author. I found it fascinating and totally engrossing, but way too mature for my middle schooler. How does the Kitchen Madonna compare, reading level-wise?
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JennGM
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lapazfarm wrote:
| I just finished In this House of Brede by the same author. I found it fascinating and totally engrossing, but way too mature for my middle schooler. How does the Kitchen Madonna compare, reading level-wise? |
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I'm not good at picking reading level, but it is not written for adults, although adults would enjoy it. It's much shorter than House of Brede, too, and no shock factors or anything.
I was estimating that I could read it to my son when he's 6 or 7. He might have some struggles with vocabulary but we could discuss.
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Cay Gibson
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lapazfarm wrote:
| How does the Kitchen Madonna compare, reading level-wise? |
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Perfect fit for middle-schoolers.  It isn't a long read at all.
And don't you just love House of Brede?
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JennGM
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MaryM wrote:
| Wow, right now I'm preparing to do this book for our 'tween girl's book club on Friday. We've just started and this is the first book we are doing. My daughter loved it and I am hearing the same from all the other mothers. I just started it last night (so I can be ready ). We are using the awesome resources that Matilda put together and posted on her blog here. Your questions are interesting, Jenn. I don't know but am intrigued as well. |
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Wow! I had no idea. I've just been waiting to get some money to buy the book for so long. What a Godincidence with my timing!
Love that blog post, Matilda!
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MaryM
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JennGM wrote:
| I have a quick question, and it's more geographic and cultural. Rumer Godden identifies Marta as from the Polish Ukraine. This is the first time I've heard of such combination. Can anyone fill me on on whether there is such a place? I understand there is a shared border. Do they speak Polish but live in Ukraine? Do they follow the Polish rites or Ukrainian rites? |
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Okay Jenn, now that I spent most of the weekend obsessed about learning more on this topic  . I knew that the Polish borders had changed much over the centuries – that part of the world has always been subject to much invasion and rule from various powers at various times, so I figured that the cultures probably often overlap.
I saw you also posted on Catholic History group and Katherine gave the brief history of Polish rule of that area up to the 1600s. But before that I did find enough to recall also that before World War II, Poland was geographically located more to the east, occupying lands of what is now Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine which it lost to the USSR after the war. And I did find references to the area of western Ukraine being called Polish Ukraine between the world wars.
The area that is western Ukraine (Halych-Volhynia) and its people came under Polish rule in the 14th century. It was part of what was the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for a couple hundred years. Part of it called Galicia (now eastern Poland & Western Ukraine), then was under the Austria-Hungary rule for a couple hundred years. Then between the world wars it went back to Poland, then German, then Russia (USSR). It is so confusing.
There are a significant number of Ukrainians in what is now SW Poland and there are Poles in Western Ukraine. They share some common customs and there is cultural influence of the other in each culture. Parts of the language are similar. In the book when Marta exclaims "Maty Bozha" from what I could find she is speaking Ukrainian but is somewhat similar to the Polish.
The majority of Ukrainians in Poland belong to the Greek Catholic Church. The majority of people in Ukraine belong to the Russian Orthodox Church, but there are also a large number that belong to the Greek Catholic Church - that whole western Ukrainian area bordering Poland is predominately Greek Catholic. So it is likely that Marta would have been Greek Catholic, but she also could have been Latin rite. I found that currently there are "863 Roman Catholic (Latin or Western Rite) communities, and 474 clergy members serving some one million Roman Catholics in Ukraine." So imagine that at the time the book was written there were also a significant number of Latin Rite Ukrainians there as well.
After reading your post yesterday, I got to the section in the book where Marta's town is mentioned (Lutynka) as well as the story about the wolves and the image of Mary with a candle among the wolves. This was so interesting to me and really said to me that no matter where Marta actually was from she was very much influenced by the Polish traditions and stories. Last year at Candlemas I discovered and blogged about the Polish "Matka Boska Gromnicza" - Our Lady of the Thunder Candles (there is also a close equivalent in Ukrainian). There are legends about her keeping away the wolves. I have only been able to find those stories associated with Poland so far.
In regards to the town of Lutynka if you google that you get lots of sites written in Polish . But from what I can figure through some translation is that it is a small town on the SE Poland border with Germany. First I thought it had to be there but it appears that lots of Ukrainians were displaced to SE Poland after WWI and maybe the town is named for another Ukrainian town. Through a Mormon genealogy site we found this reference to another town, at one time named Lutynka when it was part of Galicia Austria and of Stanislawów Poland, but now has a Ukrainian name which I can't write here because I can't get the Ukrainian characters to come up. It is in L'viv, Ukraine (western Ukraine). The reference is to records in the Metrical books of the Greek Catholic Church for that town. It must be where she is from.
This is very interesting to read about the Ukrainian people and Church - referred here to as Ruthenians. It is from the old Catholic Encyclopedia (New Advent), copyright 1907, so it is while that area is still part of the Austria-Hungary Empire. Really interesting. But it gives a history of the Church in that region and how and when the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church came under Rome and split with the Russian Orthodox with the Council of Brest-Litovsk.
Okay, so that is my detective work for the weekend. Sorry it so long. Anyone not interested, please disregard.
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MaryM
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An image of the Polish "Matka Boska Gromnicza" - Our Lady of the Thunder Candles, with the wolves. Probably similar to the card Marta had and showed the children.
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chicken lady
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lapazfarm wrote:
| I just finished In this House of Brede by the same author. I found it fascinating and totally engrossing, but way too mature for my middle schooler. How does the Kitchen Madonna compare, reading level-wise? |
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Theresa, if you liked In this House of Brede, you must read Five for Sorrow Ten for Joy! It is captivating, but defiantly an adult book.
As for the Kitchen Madonna, it is a standard First Communuion gift we give. Easy read, yet parents enjoy it as much as children. As I do all her childrens
books!!!!
Nice job Matilda, we too made a Kitchen Icon after reading this book for the first time. I wish I had your template and help back then 
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chicken lady wrote:
As for the Kitchen Madonna, it is a standard First Communuion gift we give. Easy read, yet parents enjoy it as much as children. As I do all her childrens
books!!!!
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Are the only copies available from Amazon? I might just have to get it from them.
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chicken lady
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I snatch them up from used Catholic bookstores. We are fortunate enough to have a great one in PGh. The owners now call me when they get any Rumer Godden books in.
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Matilda
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JennGM wrote:
I just wanted to sit down and start making a madonna like Gregory did in the book, it sounded so wonderful.
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For anyone interested in doing the Kitchen Madonna craft that our book club did, I have fixed the links in this post so that you can print the templates easily. Mary alerted me to the fact that the old links had died. The children really did have fun with it and just like Jenn, some of them had already sat down and started figuring out how to make their own when they came to the discussion!
The history lesson was great Mary!
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JennGM
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MaryM wrote:
Okay, so that is my detective work for the weekend. Sorry it's so long. Anyone not interested, please disregard.
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Fabulous, fabulous, fabulous! I don't know it bugged me. I have this love of all things Polish and Ukrainian, and that phrase just struck me, as I had never seen the combination. And I just kept wondering is she Polish living in the Ukraine, or vice versa. And I was going to type in her prayer to see if it was Polish or Ukrainian.
I just kept wondering is Marta Ukrainian or Polish. And the question came up again because they were looking at Our Lady of Czestochowa, and I was wondering would Marta appreciate that or not, especially if she wasn't Polish! As you can see, I think too much off tangent!
It is news to me that many Ukrainians follow the Greek Orthodox rite. What I've found unique to Poland and Ukrainian rites is that united with Rome (and the pope). I know there is such animosity toward the Russians that it never occurred to me that instead of the Russian Orthodox that they might follow the Greek Orthodox. Silly, I know.
Thanks, Mary, for your awesome detective work!
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JennGM
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And I'll add that I think my main reason why I was wondering if whether she made Polish pisanki or Ukrainian Pysanky. See Polish Art Center and Wikipedia for some differences.
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SallyT
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Wow, this is all wonderful. We have LOVED that book, and I can't wait for my littles to be old enough to enjoy it for another go-round.
Sally
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MaryM
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Well, we had our book club discussion of the book last week. Thanks again Matilda for all your resources! It was a big help.
Jenn, I know on The History Place Yahoo group discussion you were asking about finding images of the typical icon shrines/corners that would have been present in Ukrainian homes. Something that came to me during this discussion and while prepping was the Patricia Polacco books. In all the books where she is sharing about her Ukrainian ancestors there are the little shelves on the wall with icons. Some are adorned with decorative cloths - though I've not seen any with candles/votives. It made me think that what you are looking for would probably be something like what is pictured. The two books I can think of off the top of my head are Rechenka's Eggs and Thunder Cake. Thunder Cake especially hit me because it is about thunder and it reminded me of Our Lady of the Thunder Candles (see above) and wondered if there was some family connection with this book and to the old beliefs about thunder and overcoming that fear.
I also think we should also see if we can include here the helpful info regarding this region of the Western Ukraine from the Yahoo groups discussion.
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teachingmom
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I just wanted to pop in and say thanks to Jenn for starting this thread. I picked up "The Kitchen Madonna" from the holds shelf of the library just this afternoon. (Along with "Five for Sorrow, Ten for Joy" for me. It sounds like a beautiful story. I cannot wait to begin!) "In This House of Brede" is one of my very favorite books, so I'm sure these will be great.
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Bumping this thread to make note that The Kitchen Madonna has recently been reprinted by Bethlehem Books.
I loved reading Melissa Wiley's review of the book, also!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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cvbmom
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JennGM wrote:
Bumping this thread to make note that The Kitchen Madonna has recently been reprinted by Bethlehem Books.
I loved reading Melissa Wiley's review of the book, also! |
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That just makes my day! I LOVE that book My daughter read it and gave me a picture she drew of a Kitchen Madonna for Christmas 2 years ago. BEAUTIFUL!
Thanks again for posting about this,
God bless,
Christine
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: The Kitchen Madonna
