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Lisbet
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I have no idea if this is the proper forum for this. 
Most Catholics I know (myself wholly included!  ) Don't consider alcohol 'taboo'. I've served wine to many priests and seminarians at our home. (the seminarians seem to prefer beer though...  )
My dad is not Catholic, he is Baptist (sorta) and he is adamently opposed to any alcohol. He thinks we're drinking our way to hell...but he has yet to give me any concrete reason why. He says the wine at Cana was nothing more than grape juice. I know many other protestants that take a similiar stance on alcohol. Where does this tiny division come from? I once had a conversation with a Protestant woman that was horrified with our diocision "Theology on Tap" program. Do any of you know of Catholics that are morally (or theologically) opposed to drinking?
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Michaela
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Here's an article from Catholic Answers that you may find informative, Lisa.
The Grapes of Wrath
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mom3aut1not
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Lisbet,
If I understand the Church's teaching correctly, it prohibits excessive drinking or drinking by anyone who might find it a temptation. I remember an Irish priest who had taken "the Pledge", but it was a private matter. I personally do not drink because I am a Celt and the chances are too high (1 in 4) that I am predisposed to alcoholism. However, the Italian side of my dh's family sees wine and beer as food -- something you have with dinner, not to get drunk. That is quite appropriate and healthy imo for those people who are not at high risk for alcoholism.
I have a lot of Baptist and Presbyterian relatives. They won't even cook with wine even though the alcohol burns off. They regard alcohol on a par with heroin and cocaine -- absolutely evil, and believe the Bible supports their view. Their position doesn't make sense tho' -- does one really reserve the poorer quality *grape juice* until people have had a few?? Snort. If you ask Jews about the "fruit of the vine", it 's normally wine, not grape juice. And that's in addition to the difficulty of keeping wine from fermenting without refrigeration.
There is a way in which their position is comprehensible. Many of the Baptists and Presbyterians in this country have a lot of Celtic blood -- like my relatives. For them, with their relatively high risk, alcohol *is* evil. The same is true for many people of African or American Indian descent.
The important thing in my view is charity. I have no trouble with other people drinking in moderation -- nor does the Bible or the Church. For anyone for whom it is an issue, it is kind not to press or to embarrass them. (I remember one woman who was adamant that any guest should have a glass of wine -- I find that offensive and uncharitable. I shouldn't have to fend off alcohol.) Drinking in excess is a sin -- a mortal sin if deliberate. Drinking in moderation is fine.
FWIW...
In Christ,
Deborah
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JennGM
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I just want to comment on the grape juice idea. Logistically I can't see that there is ANY WAY that it could have been grape juice. Let's see, the land of Israel with a desert climate with no refrigeration or canning or preserving possibilities? Unless someone was crushing fresh grapes (and if they weren't in season, that's not a possibility either) any grape juice would be fermented...hence it would have been either wine or vinegar.
Maybe I'm being naive?
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MaryM
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Thanks, Michaela, I thought there was an explanation at Catholic Answers but wasn't finding it. And it took me awhile but I did find the one I was looking for at Catholics United for the Faith (CUF).
Just Grape Juice: The Sober Truth About Biblical Wine
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JennGM
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| Posted: Feb 25 2008 at 2:43pm | IP Logged
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And here's the section from the Catechism:
Catechism of the Catholic Church wrote:
Respect for health
2288 Life and physical health are precious gifts entrusted to us by God. We must take reasonable care of them, taking into account the needs of others and the common good.
Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help in the attainment of living--conditions that allow them to grow and reach maturity: food and clothing, housing, health care, basic education, employment, and social assistance.
2289 If morality requires respect for the life of the body, it does not make it an absolute value. It rejects a neo-pagan notion that tends to promote the cult of the body, to sacrifice everything for its sake, to idolize physical perfection and success at sports. By its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception can lead to the perversion of human relationships.
2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others' safety on the road, at sea, or in the air. |
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MacBeth
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Another thought...Jews today drink wine, especially during religious celebrations (Passover, Weddings...).
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chicken lady
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Read G.K. Chesterton, he smoked and drank, and is up for canonization( I think). Not that that helps you, but it certainly amuses me
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Matilda
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My grandpa was a Baptist preacher and I am pretty sure that what they mean by "it was nothing more than grape juice" is that the alcohol level was so low it was almost negligible. Something like table wine. When you drink real table wine that is served in Italy, the stuff in the big jug that is even served to the kids, it is hard to remember that it is alcohol.
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JoBeth in OH
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I can't give any origin for the original division, but I can give some perspective on the non-Catholic/Baptist POV. My dad is a Baptist pastor, and he and my family are adamantly against alcohol, in any form. He maintains that the wine at Cana was "real" wine, but Jesus refused to partake.
I have always wanted to ask why, if drinking alcohol is sinful, Christ would have turned the water into wine? If it is wrong, why would he provide it for the guests at the wedding - tempting or even causing them to sin?
Dad claims Jesus never drank any wine, ever. His favorite example is the Last Supper, where Our Lord says he will not drink of the fruit of the vine until he returns. (Dad remains unswayed by the fact that wine was and is an integral part of the Passover feast, and Christ must have had some in all the other Passover celebrations he observed.)
Just for informational purposes, to understand the POV of some who object to alcohol, they also say that most wine served was of the watered-down barely-fermented variety. Paul's admonition to Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach is expained by saying water was generally unsafe in the days before sanitation and water treatment departments. They say Paul's advice was to mix wine with the water to sanitize it.
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Macmom
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Thomas Aquinas advises one to only drink "ad usque hilaritatem" (“to the point of hilarity.”) (From the Manuale Theologiae Moralis: Secundum Principia S. Thomae Aquinatis, Tomus II, p. 520). Alcohol is a blessing given to us poor men to lift our moods!
Alcohol does "lubricate" many social situations, and gives a festive mood to events like weddings, etc. Obviously, getting drunk and losing control of oneself is sinful, but a little "relaxation" is what wine and beer was meant for. Everything has a proper time and place.
You won't convince Baptists of this, though. Don't even try. Its not a sin to avoid alcohol, any more than it is a sin to partake moderately from time to time!
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Catholic Stance on Alcohol
