| Author | |
mom2mpr
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 16 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1550
|
| Posted: Oct 22 2007 at 12:37pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
I am teaching ds so well  He is coming up with some awesome and tough questions, for me who is still learning about our faith, and for a 4th grader.
If someone could steer me to some easy to understand, quick read resources it would be appreciated.
--"If God knows everything about us, number of hairs on our head, what we are going to do in life, where does free will figure in."
--"If there were dinosaurs before man, what does that do to the story of Adam and Eve?"
I've got to get back to "work."
Thanks in advance
Anne
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Martha
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2291
|
| Posted: Oct 22 2007 at 1:22pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Does just knowing someone mean they will do what you want? God knows all about us, but we have all the choices to make.  I know all aobut my kids, well nearly so, but they don't always do what I want. Sometimes I even know what they are going to do in advance, but it's still their choice.
For example, right now Tobey (the 3 yr old) has that look that says he thinks I'm not looking and that cookie box on the counter looks mighty good. I know what he's thinking. I know what he's going to do. But it's still his choice to do it or not.
Dinosaurs? What's that got to do with Adam and Eve? They'd just be another animal around. For example, if there had been chowawas (sp! you know those rat looking little dogs?), what would that have done to the story?
I've never understood why people think it's either or?
I LOVE these questions! 
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Helen
Forum All-Star
Joined: Dec 03 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2826
|
| Posted: Oct 22 2007 at 2:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
mom2mpr wrote:
--"If God knows everything about us, number of hairs on our head, what we are going to do in life, where does free will figure in." |
|
|
This is a good question. Free will is one of those "mysteries." It is true that God knows everything yet at the same time He gave us free will.
When confronted with one of those "mystery" questions, I usually speak about the Trinity. (I'm not sure this is helpful at all.) We can know with our human reason that God exists, however, unless God tells us that there is a Trinity (three persons in One God) we could never figure it out. Even knowing the fact of the Trinity doesn't mean we "understand" it.
Anne, have you heard of the story that St. Augustine tells? I think it goes something like this... one day, while on the beach, St. Augustine was pondering the mystery of the Trinity. He couldn't wrap his mind around it. He saw a little child with a hole in the sand and he was attempting to fill the hole with ocean water. St. Augustine asked the child what he was doing. The child responded, "I'm trying to put all of the ocean into this little hole." St. Augustine said, "you'll never be able to do that."
The little child said (something like)
"It would be easier to fill the hole with ocean water than for you to completely understand the Trinity."
It seems the little child was an angel.
(If anyone has a better version of this story, please feel free to post it.)
__________________
Ave Maria!
Mom to 5 girls and 3 boys
Mary Vitamin & Castle of the Immaculate
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: Oct 22 2007 at 3:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
mom2mpr wrote:
If someone could steer me to some easy to understand, quick read resources it would be appreciated.
--"If God knows everything about us, number of hairs on our head, what we are going to do in life, where does free will figure in." |
|
|
I don't have resources, just pulling from memory. Similiar to Martha's answer, God knows everything. And everything includes all possibilities, or different choices I could take in each situation in my life. He also KNOWS which one I will choose, but that doesn't hamper my choosing it. It's two different areas.
mom2mpr wrote:
| --"If there were dinosaurs before man, what does that do to the story of Adam and Eve?" |
|
|
I'm echoing Martha -- who said that dinosaurs weren't around with man? Scientists have found footprints of dinosaurs and man side by side dating from the same age. There is one theory that the larger dinosaurs became extinct with Noah's Flood.
We don't have any exact data for how the world was created, what sequence of creatures, how old it is, etc. Evolution is still a theory, and there are many other types of theories, too.
Reflecting the creation story in Genesis the dinosaurs did come before man, but there is no proof on how long the dinosaurs existed before man was created. But man was also made the steward of all creation, which would include dinosaurs.
I don't have time to look it up the source (I think it's in the Catechism), but the Church has allowed one to believe in evolution as long as one believes that one man and one woman were created and the souls infused by God. So dinosaurs one way or another again don't affect the story of Adam and Eve.
Perhaps your son is picturing early man living in caves out of fear of the dinosaurs? Before the original sin man and creation lived in harmony, so there wouldn't have been a clash of man vs. dinosaurs.
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
CandaceC
Forum Pro
Joined: June 03 2007
Location: Tennessee
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 413
|
| Posted: Oct 22 2007 at 4:08pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I will say upfront that I am not Catholic, so I do not know what you all believe about the inerrancy of the Bible. But, I believe the Bible to be the 100% true, inerrant word of God.
That leads me to dinosaurs. We are doing a unit study on this right now! We believe that dinosaurs were created on Day 6 of creation - like all the other animals. There is evidence that dinosaurs were around at the time of man.
A great book from a Biblical, creationist point of view is What Really Happened to the Dinosaurs by John Morris and Ken Ham. (sidenote, there is even a unit study using this book on homeschool share site if you are interested in delving into this subject!)
__________________
Candace - wife to David since 2000...mommy to Hannah (Feb. 2002), Emily (April 2003) and Caleb (March 2005)
His Mercy Is New
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Barbara C.
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Illinois
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 882
|
| Posted: Oct 22 2007 at 4:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Here's my 2 cents. Now keep in mind that this is based on what I learned in Catholic school, but I keep learning that I was mis-taught a lot. This also comes from studying religion in college.
Catholics believe that the bible is the 100% true, inerrant word of God. However, we don't necessarily believe that every single word is literally true. You have to consider that the Old Testament began as oral stories that were passed down for hundreds of years (think of how interesting a game of "Telephone Line" can be with just a handful of people in one room at the same time) and even in their written forms are comprised of Jewish literary techniques including exaggeration, hyperbole, etc. And even after being written down they were further revised by Jewish theologians. So while some of the details of the original story may have been tweaked the basic truth behind the story is still there.
Dinosaurs can be explained a few ways. First you have to consider that there are two creation stories in Genesis: the seven-day one and the more simulataneous one. Some might consider that seven days may not have meant days as we know them. God's sense of time may be vaster than our mere mortal brains could comprehend. Furthermore, maybe the point of the creation stories is that it was God who created us rather than how He did it. The world isn't some thing that just happened; God did everything with a purpose. This view more incorporates the scientific view that dinosaurs existed before man.
I am sure that somewhere there is a document from the Vatican that addresses this, and I would be interested in seeing it myself. I do not believe that the Catholic Church holds a purely creationist view on the subject, though.
__________________
Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
Box of Chocolates
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MaryM
Board Moderator
Joined: Feb 11 2005
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13104
|
| Posted: Oct 23 2007 at 10:13am | IP Logged
|
|
|
CandaceC wrote:
| I will say upfront that I am not Catholic, so I do not know what you all believe about the inerrancy of the Bible. But, I believe the Bible to be the 100% true, inerrant word of God. |
|
|
As Barbara commented above, Catholics do indeed know the Bible to be inerrant and the inspired Word of God. And while we believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, the Church doesn't teach literal reading of Genesis.
Scripture teaches that God is the author of all life - that all creation comes from God. Nothing can contradict that. There are various actual scientific explanations that can fit within the framework of that belief and not be contradictory to Scripture.
There is a difference between the literal sense of Scripture and a literalistic interpretation. The literal sense is “that which has been expressed directly by the inspired authors.” For understanding of the literal sense, one needs to interpret the text according to the literary conventions of the time and consider the author’s intention, literary genre, and historical context. A literalistic reading disregards these considerations.
A tract from the Catholic Answers page -Adam, Eve, and Evolution discusses this topic and might be of interest for a more indepth discussion of creation. I've quoted a section below.
The Catholic Church has always taught that "no real disagreement can exist between the theologian and the scientist provided each keeps within his own limits. . . . If nevertheless there is a disagreement . . . it should be remembered that the sacred writers, or more truly ‘the Spirit of God who spoke through them, did not wish to teach men such truths (as the inner structure of visible objects) which do not help anyone to salvation’; and that, for this reason, rather than trying to provide a scientific exposition of nature, they sometimes describe and treat these matters either in a somewhat figurative language or as the common manner of speech those times required, and indeed still requires nowadays in everyday life, even amongst most learned people" (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus 18).
__________________
Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aussieannie
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 21 2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7251
|
| Posted: Oct 23 2007 at 2:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
CandaceC wrote:
| I will say upfront that I am not Catholic, so I do not know what you all believe about the inerrancy of the Bible. But, I believe the Bible to be the 100% true, inerrant word of God. |
|
|
Here is the official Church teaching on whether the Bible is the 100% true, inerrant word of God:
Pope Leo XIII wrote:
| But it is absolutely wrong and forbidden, either to narrow inspiration to certain parts only of Holy Scripture, or to admit that the sacred writer has erred. . . . For all the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical, are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Ghost; and so far is it from being possible that any error can co-exist with inspiration, that inspiration not only is essentially incompatible with error, but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true. This is the ancient and unchanging faith of the Church. (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus, 20, November 18, 1893). |
|
|
This particular encyclical was issued in 1893 but there would be many documents and prouncments made throughout the history of the Church stating this important belief.
We are in an interesting period of history where evolution has seriously challanged the normal thought on Genesis. I would say that the church has always taught creationism but with evolution challenging that understanding the Church has given believers the option to support evolution as long as it does not challenge certain immovable beliefs for the time being while the church is 'out' on proclaiming how it will stand on this issue. The past thought (creationism) has not been thrown out at all - belief in evolution only to a certain point is allowable until clarification by the church on this whole matter. (So evolution is definately not being taught as official church doctrine.)
This is not abnormal Candace. All throughout the history of Christendom, certain dogmas have been proclaimed by the church at certain times in history and others looking in at the church can be confused by this, thinking "Oh, THAT is when the Church started that belief." This is a completely false understanding of what is happening. It is not that the dogma was not believed and taught before the proclaimation at a council/encyclical. These proclaimed beliefs were always taught from the beginning BUT that it has now been seriously challenged throughout Christendom and it has to be proclaimed in a very final way to stop further confusion amongst the followers of Christ, to lessen the damage of the people spreading the heresy or false teachings.
Look at this example:
The Council of Ephesus in 431
Crisis or controversy it dealt with: Nestorius was teaching that Mary was not the mother of God;
Proponents of Nestorius began claiming that Christ was actually two separate persons, human and divine.
Who attended this council:
250 bishops, and the following notables:
Convened: Theodosius II, Emperor;
St. Cyril of Alexandria;
St. John Chrysostom;
Ratified: Celestinus I, Pope. (The Pope ratifies and makes it infallible - no longer to be questioned again.)
Decrees and resolutions of the Council:
Condemned Nestorius;
Decreed that Mary was also Theotokos, mother of God;
Declared that Christ is true God and true man, that he has two natures (human and divine) joined in one person.
I would say that the controversy of two different thoughts in the church over creationism vs evolution will be dealt with in time. We all want action NOW but the Church has never worked at great speed because of the pressure of impatient men but only in God's perfect timing, especially when facts are still be gathered and I would say that this is so.
Personally I am a believer of creationism and a good Catholic site to check out is: The Kolbe Center
On Kolbe's homepage, if you scroll down, there is a html doc on what the Church teaches on the Origins.
__________________
Under Her Starry Mantle
Spiritual Motherhood for Priests
Blessed with 3 boys & 3 girls!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mom2mpr
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 16 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1550
|
| Posted: Oct 23 2007 at 9:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
You gals are so great! How could I homeschool without you!!
I will be back to "study" here more when I have a few quiet minutes.
Thank you all for the information..
Anne
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Tough questions..
