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Bookswithtea
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I have three little girls, two of whom loved Girl Scouts and had very positive experiences with a homeschooled troop in the past. We've talked about the problems with Girl Scouts and they understand why we can no longer support that organization. But my oldest  and . It was her first real sacrifice for God. Her brother is still involved in a wonderful Boy Scout program and she never complains, but I know its hard for her.
We do have an opportunity to get involved with a once a month Little Flowers group. But I'm just not sure that its what my oldest is looking for. She loved all the crafts, cooking, sewing and other neat stuff she learned while working toward badges. She loves to camp and loved selling cookies.
I have this feeling that Little Flowers is not a Girl Scout-Like experience. I know a few of you are leaders or are involved in groups. Do you think I'm looking in the wrong place for a club for my girls?
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Celeste
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Do you have 4-H in your area? That has SO many things to choose from at little to no cost, and would provide experiences closer to Girl Scouts than Little Flowers would. We just started a (girls) 4-H club with some other families and are doing the cooking project; this summer we'll be doing sewing.
Along with the projects the girls get "club" experience--elections, running a meeting, etc.
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Celeste
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5athome
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We are just in the process of starting a Little Flowers group so I have little experience. However, I have been looking over the LF materials and the girls are working towards patches. They also sell a craft book and tea party book for Little Flowers.
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Margaret
ds '93, dd '96, ds '99,
ds '01, dd '04, ds '06,
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JSchaaf
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You can look into American Heritage Girls as well. We participated in both AHG and Little Flowers this past year. AHG is very much like traditional Girl Scouting. It has evangelical Protestant roots, but there was nothing in their Statement of Faith regarding Sola Scriptura or Sola Fide or anything else I was uncomfortable with. We were very welcome as Catholics in our troop!
We enjoyed AHG so much that I have promised the girls I will start our own troop in Fort Collins. 
Jennifer
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Bookswithtea
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Its funny you should mention AHG. Just yesterday I got an email about a new group starting about 45 minutes from us. I visited their web site and checked out their statement of faith. It definitely sounds like they are avoiding any kind of denominationalism. 
I am going to take the girls to a Little Flowers meeting this afternoon to see if they like it. Maybe I'll go to the parent meeting for AHG, too. The thing I like about clubs is that they are so much broader in scope than a sport or dance class. All three of my girls could attend, and even with buying every little uniform piece it doesn't cost anywhere near what private dance lessons or sports teams cost. Less stress for the kids and mom, overall.
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Blessings,
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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nicole-amdg
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Little Flowers activities are more geared toward the heart than the hand, though they do little handicrafts at the meetings, in my experience. It might take some initiative on your part or your daughter's to come closer to the Scout experience she misses. I like the program, though.
Have you seen CHC's Pilgrims of the Holy Family? My kids have been too young for me to consider it practically but it looks intriguing.
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Nicole
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folklaur
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I helped start up and run an AHG group here in AZ about 2 ago. It is VERY much more like a traditional Scout program, they modelled it after Boy Scouts. Also -- we were at the time the only AHG group in the state, and we were Catholic, and the "corporate" office had no problem with Catholics at all. I would have really liked to continue with it, it was a great program. The newspaper for the diocese even came out for our end of the year ceremony, wrote an article / took pics. The bishop mentioned possibly making it the program that he would allow to take place within parishes at the time. I am really hoping that when my 4 year old is older there will be another group close by.
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graciefaith
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May i ask what is wrong with Girls Scouts? Dd's will be 5yo and 6yo and i was thinking of putting them in Daisies and Brownies.
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Cindy Mac
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I found this that might explain the "why". I didn't know myself before a quick Google search.
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JSchaaf
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From my research, I've found that you need to speak with your local council directly about their Planned Parenthood connection. Here are some questions to ask:
1. Has any troop in the council invited PP to speak?
2. Have scouts attended PP events to earn a badge?
3. Have troops/council co-sponsored Planned Parenthood event?
4. Has the council co-sponsored, with PP, a third-party event?
5. Promotion of a PP event or event with PP participation?
6. Are there PP execs/board members serving on the council board of directors?
7. Has the council given an award to a PP executive?
I can't find anything online that address the GS/PP relationship at the National level. I'm sure the connection is there, though. I'll let you know if I find out more.
If my local council is "squeaky clean" I might allow my girls to participate. Maybe. I grew up in Girl Scouting and it grieves me that my girls won't have the same memories.
Jennifer
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Bookswithtea
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I grew up in girl scouting too. I was a camp counselor while in college, and I helped lead a Daisies/Brownies troop for two years. I am so so about the whole thing. And  too.
Planned Parenthood is only part of the problem. The newest books, especially from the Jr. level on up, have a strong, almost overbearing careerist focus rather than the older style leadership/service bent. The uniforms are changing to reflect modern clothing standards, and they've moved from badges to bracelet charms for older girls, too.  I remember being sooooooo proud to wear my Jr's uniform to school in the 4th grade. My best friend and I refused to get dirty during recess and played hand games so that we'd be spotless for our first meeting. I don't like that they've moved from everything that made it so wonderful, including pride in the uniform.
Jr. girl scouts was a HUGE part of my life with the most precious memories. The saddest part of all is that its just not the same program anymore. I learned to handsew and early cooking skills in juniors, along with lots of cool camping stuff. We sang traditional girl scout graces (which invoked God). I guess they think older girls don't want to focus on this stuff anymore.
Even if your local council is not associated in any way with PP, National is, and some of your cookie money and dues will end up in PP pockets. Then again, some of the money we spend on shampoo, ketchup and t shirts probably ends up there, too. I think I could overlook the National office issue if the local council was not involved with PP and if the leader was a mother who understood the problems with the current books and ran the troop in the old fashioned way. But that's hard to find.
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Blessings,
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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JSchaaf
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More links:
GS/PP in Texas
Wiki article-states there's no national connection
2005 National Speakers
More current article
Chastain states there's no way to change Girl Scouting from the inside and that families must pull out and find alternatives.
Do you think it's possible to make positive changes on the local, troop/council level??
Jennifer
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JSchaaf
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Bookswithtea wrote:
Even if your local council is not associated in any way with PP, National is, and some of your cookie money and dues will end up in PP pockets. Then again, some of the money we spend on shampoo, ketchup and t shirts probably ends up there, too. I think I could overlook the National office issue if the local council was not involved with PP and if the leader was a mother who understood the problems with the current books and ran the troop in the old fashioned way. But that's hard to find. |
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And I'm sure it'll be hard to find in Colorado-from my research Fort Collins is a pretty liberal leaning town...
I think I'll be starting an AHG troop...but I want my girls to go to Girl Scout camp!!
Jennifer
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JSchaaf
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Bookswithtea wrote:
I grew up in girl scouting too. I was a camp counselor while in college, and I helped lead a Daisies/Brownies troop for two years. I am so so about the whole thing. And too.
Planned Parenthood is only part of the problem. The newest books, especially from the Jr. level on up, have a strong, almost overbearing careerist focus rather than the older style leadership/service bent. The uniforms are changing to reflect modern clothing standards, and they've moved from badges to bracelet charms for older girls, too. I remember being sooooooo proud to wear my Jr's uniform to school in the 4th grade. My best friend and I refused to get dirty during recess and played hand games so that we'd be spotless for our first meeting. I don't like that they've moved from everything that made it so wonderful, including pride in the uniform.
Jr. girl scouts was a HUGE part of my life with the most precious memories. The saddest part of all is that its just not the same program anymore. I learned to handsew and early cooking skills in juniors, along with lots of cool camping stuff. We sang traditional girl scout graces (which invoked God). I guess they think older girls don't want to focus on this stuff anymore.
Even if your local council is not associated in any way with PP, National is, and some of your cookie money and dues will end up in PP pockets. Then again, some of the money we spend on shampoo, ketchup and t shirts probably ends up there, too. I think I could overlook the National office issue if the local council was not involved with PP and if the leader was a mother who understood the problems with the current books and ran the troop in the old fashioned way. But that's hard to find. |
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Thanks for the other, nonPP info. It sounds like Scouts have completely rejected traditional, family centered values! It may be best just to tell my girls, "No, it's just not for us" now, when they are young, then wait until they are involved and have to pull out.
BTW, I also remember wearing FULL UNIFORM to school on meeting days-all the way up to 11th grade. We were never ashamed of it.
Jennifer
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CatholicMommy
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I too enjoyed Girl Scouts as a child. In fact, I only joined in 5th grade and stayed in all the way through. Technically, I am a lifetime member now, however I just cannot justify involving myself in any of the troops in any of the areas I have lived in the last several years.
Just as was stated above, there is just so much less emphasis on leadership skills, service opportunities, etc and an extremely unbalanced emphasis on career development, being "just as good" as the guys (meaning just like a male, rather than focusing the strengths of true femininity), so much less of the camping, real life skills, fun, etc and so much on indoctrination into the nastier side of feminism. I saw it even when I was in high school, and as a leader I have always run my troops the "old-fashioned" way, but the struggle just became too much.
I also worked at two different Girl Scout camps over 4 summers, and I can say that, while certain aspects are wonderful, I definitely see the rampant feminism and such among the counselors.
I will definitely do AHG or something similar with any girls I have - the experiences of Scouting are so wonderful - it's the underlying agenda I can't support.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: another little flowers question
