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dinasiano
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 5:51am | IP Logged
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Ladies,
I hope this is the correct place to ask this. The quote below is from an Amazon review for "From Sea to Shining Sea" (Edit: A Light to the Nations). It is written by a homeschooling mom from Texas. In her profile she tells us she is a member of SSPX. Would/could someone please comment on this and tell me where I may find some info on the two specific events she references?
Thanks!
Dina
"To my great dismay, however, I found that like all other post-Second Vatican Council history textbooks that occasionally come out on the market for American students, the authors of FStSS rewrite history in an effort to vilify America and Americans. I'm supposed to believe that, against all evidence to the contrary, the Allies' bombing of Dresden was a "terror bombing" or that Nagasaki was chosen as a site for the atomic bomb because--not despite--its being "the Catholic center of Japan?" And the authors put forward the same tired (and false) claims that neither Dresden nor Nagasaki had any military significance as targets. That's just plain old rubbish! Truth is good; falsehood is not, and a Catholic education company that publishes a history textbook knowing that it contains blatant errors such as those above ought to be avoided at all costs. This is one reason I do not used the history textbooks written by Seton Home Study's founder."
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St. Ann
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 8:21am | IP Logged
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I can't answer about the book itself, but about one point the commenter makes about Dresden. Dresden has not been Catholic for around 400 years at this point, and the destroyed Frauenkirche is definitely in protestant hands. So, I think her argument is weak there if I understood her correctly.
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 9:39am | IP Logged
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I don't think she was saying Dresden was attacked because it was Catholic but that it was a terror bombing because it targeted citizens. It is unclear historically the exact intent of the Allied commanders, but the end result was that the cultural and historical center of the town was obliterated while military targets in the outskirts were left relatively unscathed, and most of the victims were women and children.
Nagasaki was the Christian center of Japan, had more supporters of the Allies than any other, etc..., and even if one believes the allies reasoning in dropping the first bomb (they were unaware of how close Japan was to surrendering and thought it necessary to save lives, they were unaware of the long-term affects, etc...), it is not anti-American or irrational to question whether the second atomic bomb was in fact justified. The Catholic church did take and does take serious issue with tactics that target civilians, and we are Catholic first. Here is an interesting piece about the history of Nagasaki as the Catholic center of Asia since the 1500s when it was evangelized by St. Francis Xavier.
I don't know the book or the author's prejudices, but all authors have prejudices, including the ones who would insist that the Allies were completely innocent, exonerated of all accusations of "war crimes." War is awful, and in my opinion, it is folly to think that all our actions were morally justified according to Church teaching. My boys are fascinated by WWII, and we have lots of books, movies, and dinner time discussions, and one thing we try not to do is make light of the actions of either side.
Here is a post by a Catholic professor Brad Birzer who considers the bombing of Nagasaki to be a terrible war crime, and here is a published response to the article that Dr. Birzer posted from one of his former students.
It is a difficult question to say the least, and the responses in the comments to both pieces offer thoughtful commentary as well.
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 9:44am | IP Logged
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So, while I can't defend the book not having read it personally, I can say I disagree with the reviewer's assertions about the "facts" of WWII.
I am going to change the title of this thread to be more specific to the topic. Hopefully, this will mean you will get some more responses from others who know more about the topic and who have actually used the text.
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Lindsay
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JennGM
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 9:47am | IP Logged
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I don't know where this reviewer has been. USA is not morally perfect in its history. Perhaps there's the rub -- our recent popes have asked forgiveness and admit the wrongdoing of actions over the centuries by the Catholic Church.
And guess what, USA is the same way. We have made many mistakes. It's not a weakness to admit mistakes. We can still be patriotic and love our country knowing the weaknesses and errors. We cannot put on blinders....we live in a country that kills unborn babies. It's not vilifying to be honest of mistakes.
I personally don't like revisionist texts where we have to look at the women and the minorities and give everyone equal time, but I do appreciate honesty.
Note how the reviewer is all over the board. I remember taking the American History through Seton School by Mrs. Carroll and I was devastated to read that the Founding Fathers were not Christian. I didn't think she was correct, so I did my own research and was SHOCKED to see she was completely correct, and even held back on the anti-Christian sentiment some of them had. Thomas Paine was a huge example. He was in prison, about to die, and he wrote two volumes debunking the Bible. I'm reading a book on sacred music and there's an anti-Catholic quote from Thomas Jefferson's writings--anti-monks!
During the first half of the century, there was more of a sense of patriotism and less "criticism" of the US. Early in the century there was nationalist movements arising in so many countries (hence Hitler's party), and then with the wars, patriotism was super important. You wanted to give a sense of pride for the country, so there might have been glossing over of errors.
The view the person dislikes is that in a just war the fighting is done by the military, and targeting civilians is never allowed. That is not a Vat II teaching, but for centuries. Both these bombings have been continually questioned as immoral decisions. Even in Wikipedia this is brought up, so it's not a Post Vatican II thought.
And my son just finished reading a Landmark book on the bombings in Japan, and even in that book there was great regret by Truman and the others for taking such an action.
As far as the question of targeting because it was Catholic, I do not know. Seems there would be a reference in the text to find the source of that claim. I don't own it, or I'd look.
The writers have a contact page, so they could be asked. See Catholic Textbook Project.
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Betsy
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 10:07am | IP Logged
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I read the book A Song For Nagasaki last summer. I am fairly ignorant to history.  But, one thing that I learned from this book is that Nagasaki wasn't the primary choice for the bombing, it was the secondary choice.
These issues are often so very complicated with so many different angles that you can read just about anything into any one decision. Not that that means we should ever cover up the truth, but what is true usually varies by people prejudices. 
ETA: At the end of the book there was some information on how each of the bomb sites has remembered this event over time. It was interesting to hear of the differences. Because of the influences of Takashi Nagai and his Catholic Faith, Nagasaki remembers the event with prayer and vigils! Sounds like an amazing Catholic response to a tragedy!!!! And IF the claim is true that Nagasaki it was chosen because of it's Catholic Faith, the Holy Spirit certainly brought a greater good out of this horrible tragedy.
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DianaC
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 10:50am | IP Logged
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I have this book (From Sea to Shining Sea: The Story of America pub. by Ignatius Press) and just flipped through to see what was written on these topics. But, I found nothing at all written about World War II. The chapters chronologically cover up through the industrial revolution (chapter 19) and then chapter 20 is "Catholics in America" with brief summaries on Saint John Neumann, Saint Frances Cabrini, Dorothy Day, etc.
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dinasiano
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 11:15am | IP Logged
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Thanks you for the responses. I look forward to checking out those links later when I have more time.
The review was posted for all three books in this series, and I am unsure of the title of the actual book it would be in. I, myself ordered this book and can't wait to read the passages in question. It's on backorder, though .
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JennGM
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 11:17am | IP Logged
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dinasiano wrote:
Thanks you for the responses. I look forward to checking out those links later when I have more time.
The review was posted for all three books in this series, and I am unsure of the title of the actual book it would be in. I, myself ordered this book and can't wait to read the passages in question. It's on backorder, though . |
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It would Light to the Nations, then, so I updated your subject line and post to reflect that.
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stacykay
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 12:27pm | IP Logged
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I have been reading a number of books related to the end of WWII, the potential invasion of Japan, and the use of the atomic bombs. I have been doing this for more of a personal reason than historical, so you will see my own bias in what I write.
My dad was in the Philippines, in Luzon, during the Liberation of the of Philippines. After the liberation, they began their "practice" of the invasion of Japan. In their briefings, my dad said they were told that 3 out of 4 of them would NOT return, based on the losses they suffered in Iwo Jima and Okinawa, not to mention the other Pacific Islands, like Peleliu. My dad said the guys all turned to each and shook hands, saying,"Oh, gee, that's too bad for you. I'll remember you." They were trying to keep it light, but they all knew the very real danger they were in.
With the Pacific losses, the American Public was furious and frantic at the idea that even more of their sons, husbands, and brothers would be lost.
In looking at the numbers of civilians lost in the battle for Okinawa and in Tokyo, from those incendiary bombs, there is no way to guess the loss of life if the US had to go the route of invasion. With the dropping of the first atomic bomb, the Japanese military was adament about not surrendering. Even with the second, the emperor really had a tough time convincing all that surrender was the right option.
The US military had only experienced the no-holds-barred fighting spirit of the Japanese soldiers. The US, marines, army and navy, had suffered so many losses. My dad even returned home on the USS Comfort, the hospital ship which was targeted by a kamikaze, who aimed for the red cross.
It was war.
I really think President Eisenhauer made the decision he thought best. We have no idea when Japan would have given in, due to barricades, or any other such hardship. Everything is speculation.
I agree it is very tough to go back and look at a historical period and write without prejudice, because unless we were in that time and place, it is impossible to say, oh, we should have done x, y, or z.
I'm just glad my dad made it through.
In Christ,
Stacy in MI
eta- I meant President Truman, not Eisenhower, whose name I also misspelled! I was looking at a picture of Ike while writing and just put his name in! A red-faced day for me, for sure! Ack!!!
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MaryM
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 12:56pm | IP Logged
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stacykay wrote:
| I'm just glad my dad made it through. |
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Yes, for sure. Thanks for sharing this insight, Stacy. Very interesting.
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stacykay
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 1:03pm | IP Logged
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Oh, I forgot to address your question about Nagasaki! !
I had read that Nagasaki was added to the list of potential targets, because Kyoto was removed, as Kyoto was/is a religious center. That's confusing with what the book says.
Also, I thought the other reasons Nagasaki was picked were due to fuel concerns, weather reports, and that it was a military port city (although the Japanese fleet was pretty much in ruins by then, but that wasn't something they were going to share with us!)
That's all!
In Christ,
Stacy in MI
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Erica Sanchez
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 5:43pm | IP Logged
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Thank you, Stacy. I appreciate your comments. My grandpa fought in the Pacific as well and we are so glad he made it home. :)
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dinasiano
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| Posted: June 11 2013 at 7:03pm | IP Logged
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Stacy,
Thank you for your comments. I definitely appreciate the fact that it is difficult to write without bias.
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4Real Forums : Across Time and Place
Topic: WWII bias in A Light to the Nations?
