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tgriff3
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My dc love homeschooling except for math.  My 3rd grade dd has no trouble even though she doesn't particularly like it. I've followed the Ruth Beechick 3R's math booklet for her and we are working on multiplication and division. I did the same with my 6th grade ds however and though he understands basic concepts, we need to fine tune and then move on to the more advanced middle school math material. The thing is, I've switched programs so many times since finishing RB in 3rd grade and because of that, he hasn't learned things in the order that most books teach. Now I'm unhappy once again with our math program and feel as though I don't know where to go now. I don't know where to start in a new program. I just feel out to sea on this and am feeling desperate not to let my children down in math!  Please help!
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Tina
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Leonie
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Hi Tina!
I find it helps to realise that there is no perfect maths curriculum.
And that each curriculum/author has their own bias so, sometimes, the switching around between porgrammes can be a good thing!
What programmes have you used ( apart from Ruth Beechick's 3Rs) - and what is making you feel less than satisfied with your current programme?
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Leonie in Sydney
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tgriff3
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We have used Saxon, Horizons, Math U See and now Professor B. I didn't like the constant review of Saxon and Horizons, I didn't know where to start in Math U See because we weren't starting at the beginning (and I didn't really understand it) and with Professor B I do not like the way some concepts are presented, it seems more difficult than it has to be. I almost want to just buy a general math book and work our way through it but i wouldn't know what to buy. Why does the curriculum have to be so complicated?? Or am I making it more complicated than it needs to be?
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Tina
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cathhomeschool
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The only curriculum we've used is Math U See, so I'll say a few things about it in case you decide to try it again. I love math (engineer) and understand the concepts well, yet Math U See definitely teaches many concepts in a "different" way. It can be hard to understand, but I've found that the kids understand it if I stick to their method on most things. I have not used the videos, but they are supposed to be geared toward teaching the teacher, so you might try watching those with your son.  Because Math U See teaches things in a different order than other programs, I think that it would be helpful to start further back than necessary, and then just work quickly through concepts that your son has mastered.
Now, if all your son really needs is fine tuning of concepts that he already knows, maybe you could use something you already own (Saxon) simply as a workbook/practice sheets. You could review concepts that he should know before starting algebra, like long division, multiplication, fractions, decimals, negative numbers,... (look through the table of contents or a scope and sequence for a 5th/6th grade "What your child needs to know" book) and then focus more on the things he's having trouble with. Again, you could use Saxon or Math U See to review difficult concepts before moving on. If he doesn't understand it the way Saxon teaches it, try the Math U See approach (using the teaching videos if necessary).
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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tgriff3
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I think it was the "different" way that MUS approaches certain things that I didn't like, frankly some things seemed silly to me and the children. Not that they are terribly serious kids, they just thought it was kind of dumbed down for them. Then again, we did not go far with it and my own attitude about it may certainly have colored theirs. This is the same problem that I have with Professor B. Some concepts are presented in a rather silly manner so I have just been using the book as a spine and teaching the lessons in the way that I learned them.
It's most likely me and my own issues that are making math less than fun for us. I actually like math NOW, I didn't as a child, so I want my kids to like it. When they were younger we read the Anno books and that, coupled with RB was enough. Now I feel as though at least my 6th grader needs to really step it up. We have not done fractions or decimals at all! That is one of my main problems. If we tried Saxon again I wouldn't know which book to use. I only have book 87 which I used for my oldest and the 3rd grade book which doesn't include decimals and fractions.
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Tina
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Leonie
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Tina,
Could you and your dc get to look at different curricula and books and thus get a personal idea on what might suit and where to start?
I ask this because my 13 ds and I were in an educational bookstore the other day, looking at maths workbooks. We picked up different books from different publishers and different books for varying levels. By looking through the books together, we could decide on a book that would be "just right" for occasional use by my ds.
My son's input was invaluable and it mattered less to us that we were starting at the correct point or grade level, than the fact that my ds felt that the book was at a comfortable level for him.
HTH!
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Leonie in Sydney
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tgriff3
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That's a good idea! I will probably have to wait for convention time in June because here in Richmond there are relatively few places to purchase curricula. I only know of 1 or 2 and the selections are limited. He might be more inclined to enjoy math if he were helping choose the material.
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Tina
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Karen T
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Tina, this is a late reply to you but you might try the Key To series (Key to Fractions, Key to Decimals, etc.) They are very inexpensive, simple, no-nonsense workbook approach if your son likes that. I think they run about $3 per book, and Fractions, for example, has 4 books plus a Teacher's answer book and a test booklet. You can get the whole set (bks and answer keys) for $12.95 and the test book for all 4 for 8.50, at Rainbow Resource, for example.
My ds came out of public school after 5th grade and didn't know fractions much at all. We started with MUS since I thought the multisensory approach would appeal to him. He didn't care for it at all, thought Steve's jokes were lame, which turned him off. But we did use it for about the first 20 lessons on fractions and I do think it helped him a lot. (He has some tests on his website to figure out where you should start the program). Then, MUS was moving on to some basic geometry and I thought ds needed more practice on the fractions so I got the Key to books and he likes them much more. We've now done the Decimals set, too, and are just about to start percents, then will do geometry. There is very little review of previous concepts in these, though, so you may need to occasionally build that in.
Karen T
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tgriff3
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Karen T wrote:
| Tina, this is a late reply to you but you might try the Key To series (Key to Fractions, Key to Decimals, etc.) |
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Thank you!!! I've been thinking about getting that series too. May I ask you, do you know which book would cover lowest common denominator, multiples, etc.? He really needs to work on that area and then we need to do decimals and fractions to get him up to speed. We are really ready to move on and find something that works.
Do you find the Key To series is all you need for math or are you using with MUS? Do you think I could go right from fractions and decimals to algebra and geometry?
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Willa
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I don't have much to add but thought I'd commiserate:
I have a 6th grader using Saxon 76. He did fine with 65 but I see that as the concepts get more complex that the scattershot incremental approach just isn't helping him. He learns the lesson and can do absolutely fine in the application, but by the time he has gone a couple of lessons further has forgotten the old pieces and how they fit into the "big picture".
My high school son is using Key to Algebra and I'm pleased with it; it's almost TOOO slow but builds more logically than Saxon IMO, and this particular son needs the repetition and slow pace. It's NOT a full high school algebra program but I'm hoping it will give him the groundwork to go to a full highschool text.
So I too have been wondering whether to use the Key to fractions etc with my 6th grader. My concerns are that (1) if I use it WITH Saxon, it might be math overload and (2) if I use them only, without a regular math program, he will have gaps in his math base.
Any thoughts anyone on this?
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Willa
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Willa
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Oh, and my third concern is that my 6th grade is pretty fast at math and might get bored with the slow pace that my older son needs.
I also wanted to add that Leonie's remark about switching programs has been validated in my experience. I have tried to stay consistent with math but find that my children have done better with occasional switches from one resource to another. We've used MCP Math, Saxon, lots of drills like Calculadder, Miquon, Key to..., and Jacobs and Foerster at the high school level. The switches are wrenching and uncertain to me, the mom, but they've seemed to benefit my children. My daughter was floundering in Saxon, so we used MCP F for a year. Now she's doing fine in Saxon and wants to continue using it. My oldest had similar experiences.
I wish I could stay with one program, life would be easier, but it just doesn't seem to work that way in my family!
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Willa
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jdostalik
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I'm jumping in here a bit late but wanted to add a bit to the discussion of Math-U-See. Steve Demme has completely revised his curriculum. The program is organized much differently now (and imho much superior to his already great "classic" books as far a review and mastery...) You might want to check it out; there are placement tests on their site: Math-U-See I am definitely biased, here, as all my kids like the program; we enjoy watching the videos with Steve's math tricks and silliness...
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Jennifer in TX
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tgriff3
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Why would the "Key To" series not be considered a full math program? I'm just curious. I don't know enough about it to determine that.
I don't mind switching programs necessarily, I just don't like to feel like I'm floundering, flip flopping and being generally inconsistant! LOL! I just would love to find a program that I can stick with and stop wasting time trying to find something that covers all the bases. Maybe that's unrealistic? Probably! 
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Tina
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Liz D
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Hi Tina,
I live in Norfolk and wanted to let you know there is a good size homeschool store in Va Beach called Moore Expression. She sells both new and used curriculum. She also buys curriculum items and you can apply that money towards your purchase. So if you were going to be in the area sometime it would be a decent place to look at math books. Let me know if you would like more info.
God Bless, Liz D
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tgriff3
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Liz D wrote:
Hi Tina,
I live in Norfolk and wanted to let you know there is a good size homeschool store in Va Beach called Moore Expression. She sells both new and used curriculum. |
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Thanks Liz! We normally head that way at least once in the summer so I may give that a try! There is at least one used curriculum place here but I never seem to get there! LOL!
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Tina
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Willa
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tgriff3 wrote:
Why would the "Key To" series not be considered a full math program? I'm just curious. I don't know enough about it to determine that.
I don't mind switching programs necessarily, I just don't like to feel like I'm floundering, flip flopping and being generally inconsistant! LOL! I just would love to find a program that I can stick with and stop wasting time trying to find something that covers all the bases. Maybe that's unrealistic? Probably! |
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I think Saxon covers more. I'm not a math type myself and have never sat down to compare point by point.
The reasons I don't like switching are 1, because it always seems to waste time while we transition, and 2, because it's so expensive buying a new math program. I would like to just stay with one and get to know it thoroughly to where teaching was second nature, and save my dimes to buy great books, but it never seems to happen that way
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Willa
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tgriff3
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WJFR wrote:
| The reasons I don't like switching are 1, because it always seems to waste time while we transition, and 2, because it's so expensive buying a new math program. I would like to just stay with one and get to know it thoroughly to where teaching was second nature, and save my dimes to buy great books, but it never seems to happen that way |
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YES YES and YES!! I agree with everything you said here. Wasting time, wasting money, etc. etc. We also love books too much to keep buying yucky math! LOL! No, but seriously, it would seem to make sense that if I had one program I liked and stuck to it, I would get at least competant at teaching it! Saxon wasn't horrible I guess. Thinking about it all now makes me weary. I skipped math with him today....again.... <sigh>. 
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Karen T
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[/QUOTE]Thank you!!! I've been thinking about getting that series too. May I ask you, do you know which book would cover lowest common denominator, multiples, etc.? He really needs to work on that area and then we need to do decimals and fractions to get him up to speed. We are really ready to move on and find something that works.
Do you find the Key To series is all you need for math or are you using with MUS? Do you think I could go right from fractions and decimals to algebra and geometry?[/QUOTE]
We started out with MUS last summer doing fractions and it covered that in great deal. When we had finished all of the fraction portion of that level of MUS, I felt ds still needed more practice, so I bought the Key books with that in mind. I never intended to use them as a full math program! I bought the whole set on Fractions, 4 books, and just picked out pages I felt he could use help on. The first booklet in that series is Fraction Concepts but it is REALLY basic, like showing pieces of pie, etc. Book 2 is Multiplying and Dividing, which covers the lowest common denominator stuff, etc. Then book 3 is Adding and Subtracting Fractions (interesting that they cover mult/div. before add/sub, since the former is really easier, but most books do it the other way around) Book 4 is Mixed Numbers. So if you didn't want the whole set, I'd start with Book 2 and up. But if you're buying 3 of them, plus the answer book (one book for all 4) plus the test booklet, it probably is cheaper to get the set.
I am not sure about going to algebra after these. We have finished Fractions, decimals and now are doing percents, which is very easy after just completing the others. I do like how these books really give concrete examples of how each concept is used in everyday life, like for percents it's using things like the RDA for foods and having you figure how many servings you'd need to get all of some vitamin, etc. Not just the typical "Sally has 10 balls. She sells 2 percent of them. how many did she sell?"
I think we will do the geometry ones after percents and then i'll have to look at the algebra and see if he needs something else in between.
I may be wrong in this, but I think many, if not most, math books now have the format of learning a new concept and then reviewing the older ones, etc. While the idea sounds great, for ds it is working better to concentrate on one particular thing at a time. At the end of each booklet there is a test, and if he does pretty well on it, I then do 1-2 days of review of all sorts of previous math, before moving on to the next booklet.
I really need to re-examine our county's AKS for 6th grade math (AKS is specific goals set for everything) to see what holes there are, but it is SO confusing b/c not only do they list every tiny bit of minutiae in outline form, but they skip around from one thing to another so quickly and then come back to it in the next grade. That's why I spent a good part of this year re-teaching last year's math to ds.
Karen T
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4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: 6th grade math struggles
