| Author | |
Kathryn
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2009
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1520
|
| Posted: May 20 2013 at 8:43pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
My son was taking a math class thru the co-op but I did most of the teaching. He is finishing 6th grade but I'm not sure how his class ended up doing a 5th grade math book. I think most of the kids were younger than him and so they scaled it down. But now I'm pondering what to do for his math. He does pretty good in math. He's done Horizons Math this year and aside from the lack of aid in the teacher's book, I like (and think he needs) the repetition after each new lesson. However, it seems almost too easy for him. That's why I thought about skipping the Horizons 6 book. The year prior he did BJU.
Should I try to find a 6th grade level book or move into the 7th grade level book and see how he does? I can't seem to find the content of various books to know what is covered. Then would 8th grade be pre-algebra getting ready for algebra in 9th grade?
Or if he did a 6th grade book next year (7th grade), then 7th grade book (while in 8th grade), then is the "standard" now to complete algebra in 8th grade? My DD just completed it in grade 8 but our state guidelines really doesn't show it until 9th grade. I'm not committed to any one particular program as opposed to ensuring (I hope) he's ready for algebra in 9th grade.
__________________
Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kathryn
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2009
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1520
|
| Posted: May 20 2013 at 8:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ok...so more research. It appears Horizons Math stops at 6th grade. Sonlight shows 7th grade math to be these choices:
Teaching Textbooks 6 program
Horizons 6 program (after this level no more options so maybe I shouldn't continue with that program)
Singapore Math 6 program
Saxon Algebra 1/2
So, what to choose, what to do. ??? He is not a strong student. Does take a very long time even though it's seemed easy but he does better in Math than Lang. Arts. But I need him to have the review problems, simple instructions, mom-teachable.  Then what does everyone do when their kids get to higher math levels where he would need more teacher focused time and lessons?
__________________
Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: May 20 2013 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
You might also look at Teaching Textbooks. It costs more but does more of the teaching. And it's very thorough in explanations. There's samples, tables of contents and placements tests.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SeaStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 16 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9068
|
| Posted: May 21 2013 at 6:07am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I was thinking Teaching Textbooks, also. But Jessica at Shower of Roses recently posted about a bad experience with that program. I have heard the same from other people, too.
I've never used it and love the idea of it... but now I have second thoughts about even trying it.
__________________
Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
|
| Posted: May 21 2013 at 6:53am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Doesn't Saxon have placement tests? Perhaps if you are leaning that way for middle school and high school, this would help you determine where he is and if you need to do a catch-up year and just focus on certain concepts to have him at grade level. This might at least help you narrow down the type of program you need this year (mastery based or spiral, etc...).
I think there are a couple of different options for videos to go along with Saxon, so there is the option of taking some pressure off you and still use a program otherr than Teaching Textbooks.
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stellamaris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 26 2009
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2732
|
| Posted: May 21 2013 at 8:12am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Personally, if he's not a strong student, I would stick with one program and use Horizons again next year. I do think it is particularly confusing in math to switch programs, and if he did well in Horizons 5, I'd just continue on. You could quickly cover anything that is "easy" for him and move through the material at a comfortable pace. Then, you would have to choose another program.
We are moving up next year to Power Algebra One from Professor B. If I remember, I'll let you know how that goes!
I think the usual progression is Algebra 1 in 9th, Algebra 2 in 10th, Geometry in 11th and Advanced Math in 12th. We have done the progression beginning in 8th grade with most of our kids and continuing through Calculus in 12th grade. Be aware that some programs that are titled "Algebra" are in fact pre-algebra. Algebra I should include factoring polynomials.
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to  dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MarilynW
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 28 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4275
|
| Posted: May 21 2013 at 8:29am | IP Logged
|
|
|
[QUOTE=Kathryn] Ok...so more research. It appears Horizons Math stops at 6th grade. QUOTE]
Horizons now does a Pre-algebra for 7th grade. You could do the Horions placement test - and if you need to, do Horizons 6 then move onto pre-algebra.
My boys did pre-algebra in 7th and just finished Jacobs Algebra I in 8th.
__________________
Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MarilynW
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 28 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4275
|
| Posted: May 21 2013 at 8:33am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Re Teaching Textbooks - my experience has been mixed.
I would NOT use it in early grades. It is ok for high school - but you have to get the progression right. (imo you have to complete pre-calculus by the time you take standardized tests)
It is not good for kids who do not care for video instruction - I have a few who prefer to read and work and do not like videos.
__________________
Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: May 21 2013 at 11:05am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ah thanks Marilyn, we just started it for high school level (Algebra) and I've been pleased with how it's taking her through concepts so that she's really "getting it".
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MarilynW
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 28 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4275
|
| Posted: May 21 2013 at 11:40am | IP Logged
|
|
|
JodieLyn wrote:
| Ah thanks Marilyn, we just started it for high school level (Algebra) and I've been pleased with how it's taking her through concepts so that she's really "getting it". |
|
|
Jodie - I could write a mini book on my thoughts on Math programs. There is a lot of criticism about TT, but different things work for different people.
For us our Math goals are: mastery and enjoyment, application to real life and also success in college prep tests. Whilst the last reason is not the most important, it is certainly important if you have a college bound child who needs academic scholarships.
My first high schooler used Saxon Algebra I (she did great - but I really do not want to use it again), TT and also Thinkwell. I think that TT does not prepare adequately for the SAT if you do not complete Pre-Calc (their Algebra II needs more on functions and other things)She did have to do some extra work for the SAT. (but she was going for a near perfect score)
But I also believe that Saxon is good on drill but not on application - especially for those kids that need to understand "why"
For my next high schoolers we are using Jacobs Algebra I which has been a great fit. I may do TT geometry (which is quite good with proofs) - but I will not use TT after this. I will use Foersters for Algebra II and community college for pre-calc etc
I wanted to mention an alternative to TT - Aleks Math. My daughter's friend has always used this and is very good at Math. I may do the free trial over the summer.
__________________
Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erica Sanchez
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 05 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1538
|
| Posted: May 21 2013 at 11:45am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh, I am so glad you mentioned Jessica's post about Teaching Textbooks. I have been fretting about our math ever since reading her post! :(
We have loved TT for Algebra and above. I actually have Grade 6 and Pre-Algebra, too, and have liked those just fine. Before TT we use Math U See starting with Primer and I really like the Key To Math series for fractions, decimals and percents, so I have thrown those in around 5th or 6th grade. Sounds like a mish-mash but I think it has worked well.
One thing that Jessica kept mentioning was her kids' scores on the standardized tests and finding a math program to help raise those scores. I don't really care about standardized tests (!), so I wasn't too worried about it, but still fretting a bit. I do know that TT has revised their Algebra and Geometry books to include a few topics that were missing before.
Thank you, Marilyn, for the recommendation to finish pre-calculus before taking the standardized tests (SAT and ACT, correct?). The only ones that really matter, right?! I think my two oldest have always been a bit behind in Math so I am trying harder with the next set to be at a better place come SAT time. My oldest completed Algebra I and II and Geometry using TT before taking the SAT and did okay. Not great, but acceptable.
Sorry to go off about this.......
Kathryn, I do believe the standard is to now complete Algebra in 8th grade. I did not know that until recently. I completed Algebra in 8th grade and then Calculus in 12th, but that was considered advanced 'back then'. Now I believe it is the norm.
Saxon is a program that visually looked so unappealing to me. The textbook, copy your work into a notebook style that I used. But, it does seem like so many people use it with success. I had a few moments last week where I thought I might scrap everything we were doing with math and replace with Saxon. I kept saying to myself, must get to 4 Real and re-read some math threads........ :)
__________________
Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SeaStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 16 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9068
|
| Posted: May 21 2013 at 2:04pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erica-
I was thinking the same thing. If you don't care about standardized tests and are happy with TT, and the kids are doing well with that... go with it!
I am no fan of standardized testing, but we are required here to do it, and it is upsetting for my kids to see things on the test they have not yet learned.
Even though I explain we move at a different pace, ds especially does not want to feel "behind".
I thought it was very brave and helpful of Jessica to post about her experience. It was a good head up for me.
__________________
Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
cathhomeschool
Board Moderator
Texas Bluebonnets
Joined: Jan 26 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7303
|
| Posted: May 21 2013 at 10:22pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Wow I'm so surprised about the TT comments! I had never heard negatives so this is new to me and I'm glad to know it's not always a hit. We only used TT geometry and loved it. It does cover proofs well, which is why we chose it. We used Jacobs Algebra and liked it, but I would not recommend it for anyone who needs extra help/explanation. It does not explain much in the student book. I did not buy the teacher's manual, so maybe Jacobs gives in-depth explanations there.
I would agree with Caroline -- I think that sticking with one program might be best since different textbooks cover topics in different orders. I didn't see table of contents for Horizons, but the Horizons 6 and Horizons pre-Algebra readiness tests might help you figure out if either of those books would be a good fit.
__________________
Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
jawgee
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 02 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1415
|
| Posted: May 22 2013 at 8:10am | IP Logged
|
|
|
SeaStar wrote:
I was thinking Teaching Textbooks, also. But Jessica at Shower of Roses recently posted about a bad experience with that program. I have heard the same from other people, too.
I've never used it and love the idea of it... but now I have second thoughts about even trying it. |
|
|
I wanted to jump in and add our experiences with TT.
-TT is definitely one full grade behind the public school in our area. Since my oldest is strong in math, he was able to jump to TT7 when he was 9 (in 4th grade). So, for people who do standardized testing, that is an important thing to keep in mind.
-My oldest's scores on the standardized test did fall slightly this year, even after completing TT7 and beginning Pre-Algebra. (His test scores were still excellent, but they did fall). One think I attribute this to is the fact that on TT students have TWO attempts to get an answer right. My son had become accustomed to doing a problem quickly in his head, and if he gets it wrong on TT then he'll actually do the problem on paper.  So, while I think it is a positive thing to give the students two attempts, some students may use that to their advantage.
-Finally, for those of us who are teaching many children, I haven't found another independent program like TT. It really is unique in that way. If my son is struggling with a concept after watching TT, I'll teach him in my way and also have him watch a lesson on Khan Academy to make sure the concept is sticking.
Overall, I love TT. I think it's an excellent program for busy families. I don't think it is a good choice for younger students (esp. if they struggle in math), but for older kids I highly recommend it!
__________________
Monica
C (12/2001), N (11/2005), M (5/2008), J (8/2009) and three angels
The Catholic Cup on Facebook
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
anitamarie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Oct 15 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 819
|
| Posted: May 22 2013 at 8:48am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Horizons does have a book after Grade 6. It is Pre-Algebra. Here's a link. So, you could keep him in Horizons and just keep going.
Good luck with your decision.
Anita
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kathryn
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2009
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1520
|
| Posted: May 22 2013 at 12:50pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
For those that recommend TT in the higher grade b/c it does allow for a busy family, are the higher grades "level appropriate"? Or does it tend to still fall behind. I guess geometry is geometry and algebra is algebra, huh?
I have a bit to consider but so appreciate the many replies. I might continue on with Horizons 6 but I as well couldn't find their table of contents on-line yet. I do have the on-line assessments I plan on giving him.
I guess my concern w/ sticking with Horizons is that eventually I will have to switch (in just 1-2 yrs) when he gets to those higher levels, right?
__________________
Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kathryn
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2009
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1520
|
| Posted: May 22 2013 at 5:46pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ok...my mistake again. Horizons goes up to Algebra now. I've searched around blog posts and it's gotten mostly really good reviews as being a solid approach but moves somewhat fast-pased starting with grade 7. Since it uses the spiral method it introduces the concept and may have just a few problems on it and then review of previous concepts. While I like this, there's not a substantial amount of time on that one concept before moving on. BUT, so far this has worked for him. I just have to keep reviewing the concept and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think that's why I've liked this program. He needs that CONSTANT repetition.
__________________
Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erica Sanchez
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 05 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1538
|
| Posted: May 22 2013 at 5:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Kathryn,
I know there were some concepts missing from the higher maths and TT is working on revising their books, so one would want to make sure they had the new editions. I am trusting that these editions would be 'level appropriate'. I hope! I guess I should take the time to compare.
Also, from Pre-Algebra and up, you are not imputing answers into the computer. You are doing all the work on paper. My son, who did Grade 6 last year, said that he only got one chance to answer the questions correctly, so maybe this is just in the younger grades?
I am so grateful for this conversation. I think we will stick with what we are doing because like Monica said the independent nature of TT at the higher levels is so helpful in a large family.
Melinda, we also do the standardized tests for our charter school and I actually hate that we do. When one of my kids does poorly because we covered something different that year or they are a year behind in math (trying to work on this one), we just talk about it or I don't show them the scores. They know they take the tests so that the charter can get funding - a bit of a game, I know. I think Jessica seemed very concerned about the scores on the tests, but I did not mean to imply that she shouldn't be or that she couldn't criticize TT. I am glad she did and glad you mentioned it above because this conversation has made me think about our math choices and, where I was fretting last week, it has actually helped me to have peace about our choices. :)
__________________
Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kathryn
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2009
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1520
|
| Posted: May 22 2013 at 6:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I found Horizons Table of Contents at christianbooks.com. I am leaning toward this or may even consider Saxon 76 so that I could move him to pre-algebra or 87 next year. My thought is that I can get an on-line class for him with Saxon but not with Horizons. While I like Horizons, it is mom-intensive for us but I'm not sure another program wouldn't be either. But it would be nice when the time comes that I have another avenue or "help" in the teaching area for him and I like that Saxon has those videos. Hopefully I can check them both out at our HS conference in June! 
__________________
Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
jawgee
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 02 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1415
|
| Posted: May 23 2013 at 6:25am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erica Sanchez wrote:
| from Pre-Algebra and up, you are not imputing answers into the computer. You are doing all the work on paper. My son, who did Grade 6 last year, said that he only got one chance to answer the questions correctly, so maybe this is just in the younger grades? |
|
|
My son is doing Pre-Algebra right now and he enters his answers into the computer. He does still get two chances, also.
According to the TT website, Calculus is the only one that doesn't have automated grading, so I think up until then answers are input into the program.
__________________
Monica
C (12/2001), N (11/2005), M (5/2008), J (8/2009) and three angels
The Catholic Cup on Facebook
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: Middle School Math
