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Mackfam
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My 7th grader is currently doing Algebra I work. We're moving very slowly. She is understanding the abstract just fine, but she's still making mistakes with the concrete and I'm not sure what to do...if anything.
Every time I grade her work, the steps are there, the process is there, but she misses the problem. When I follow through her work I find she added 4+2+1 and got 6. When she corrects her work of course she feels awful.
She makes the same basic math errors in all four of the operations. It is enough that if graded (and I do have to turn in a grade for our cover) she is barely a B or C student. Missing multiple problems because of simple math errors is very discouraging for her, and I admit I'm getting a bit frustrated.
Do you have any ideas to help me help her?
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PDyer
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My son does the same thing, both when he was at home and since he's gone to the parish school. I have had my son review his own work before giving it to me (and now his teacher) to grade, and sometimes I'll have him use the calculator to check it again if after he's reviewed the work there are still errors. His problem is also the haste at which he's working, so I've told him to slooooowww down. You've probably tried all these strategies, but know you're not alone!
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Matilda
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I also wanted to commiserate. My almost 11 year old tries to do everything in his head and ends up making silly mistakes like not carrying the 1. I haven't thought about letting him use a calculator to check. That might help. I have let him go back and see if he can find his mistake. If he can, without my help, then I don't count that problem wrong.
I also wanted to say that I remember doing this when I was in school and I remember having a very sympathetic math teacher who would only take off a few points for simple mistakes when the concept was obviously understood.
I hope something helps!
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Betsy
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I was that student in 9th grade. My Algebra teacher signed my year book 2+3 doesn't equal 6!!! 
I find for me it's a personality/temperment thing. I struggle checking my work. I second guess my self. I get very stressed out. I just want to be done.
Can you come up with ways to help her check her work? Help her learn when an answer "makes sense"? Help her to take her time and check her work?
This problem has followed me around most of my academic career, however I did graduate with degree using a lot of higher math...so it hasn't limited me either!
Betsy
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KackyK
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Have you tried Teaching Textbooks? I have a friend who said this helped her child who had this issue. She'd do a problem then immediately would check it (with the CD-rom) and then would move on to the next problem.
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KackyK
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KC in TX
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I did that constantly throughout school and even in college. I don't know why. I graduated with a degree in secondary math education.  Luckily, my teachers only took a point or two off because I got the concept right. I am a fast worker but I always checked my work at least one more time sometimes twice.
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Mackfam
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Thank you ladies for the empathy and suggestions.
Betsy, this describes my dd exactly:
Betsy wrote:
| I find for me it's a personality/temperment thing. I struggle checking my work. I second guess my self. I get very stressed out. I just want to be done. |
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Your story gives me great hope though - yours and KC's!
Kacky, I've looked at Teaching Textbooks but I'm so, so leary to just jump to another (expensive) curriculum. What we're using is working, but your testimony of how your friend uses it has me wanting to discern this decision again. It has given me something more to consider though. I think I'll search the archives again on Teaching Textbooks.
The obvious solution is as you all have pointed out - checking her work. But her temperament (and attitude) is like Betsy describes. I either need to pull the curriculum and hope to inspire her confidence and change the underlying attitude about math or find some creative way to do that myself.
Kacky - can I ask a question that relates to TT - If your child is completing a lesson and checking behind themselves for every problem using the CD, would that take an inordinate amount of time during the day?
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Jen Mackintosh
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violingirl
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I don't have an older child myself but I did teach in private school for awhile before having my kids...
Just an idea- Does your 8 year old do addition or other math that your daughter could check for errors? Or maybe you could set up a few wrong problems for her to correct each day- 2 or 3 problems that you do incorrectly and she has to check your work? That takes the personal side out of checking her own work and being upset about her errors. Maybe approaching it from a different direction like that would help.
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Isa in Michigan
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The best way to approach your daughter's careless math errors is by having her do a daily 1 minute timing of basic arithmetic problems (i.e. addition up to 20, multiplication up to 12) where she has to do at least 60 problems in 60 seconds with at most only 2 mistakes.
The goal is to achieve speed and accuracy in basic arithmetic.
There was a research study done in the 1960's where a struggling college calculus class improved to the level of their peers when they practiced basic elements to fluency (i.e. saying and writing numbers and math facts). The other group of struggling calculus students involved in the study did not improve with a reward/consequences system. Many research studies have shown fluency practice to be very successful.
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Angel
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Mackfam wrote:
The obvious solution is as you all have pointed out - checking her work. But her temperament (and attitude) is like Betsy describes. I either need to pull the curriculum and hope to inspire her confidence and change the underlying attitude about math or find some creative way to do that myself.
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I'm a bit late to this thread, but I wonder maybe if she were able to take a break between finishing the work and then coming back to check it herself if that would help. When I am dealing with frustration and people wanting just to be done with their work, I either try to shorten the lessons or split them up so that the frustration or feeling of "just wanting to be done" doesn't do as much damage. If she can get up after completing her work, get a drink or a snack, watch birds out the window, etc., etc. and then come back to check, maybe that will allow her to work out some of the restlessness?
(My dh is just the way you describe, btw. I remember when we were in college all the problems he would miss in Calculus were due to careless errors. He was always the first one done with his test because he didn't go back and check anything. However, when he took a non-traditional math class which allowed him to move at his own pace and correct and retake his tests, he did very, very well. He now works in finance and is very good at what he does.)
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Angela
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VeronicaB
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I keep making mistakes - I took on the job of treasurer and balancing books with interruptions is a recipe for disaster.
I'm learning how to use an abacus - said to help with mental arithmetic and very impressive party trick.
Maybe way out but would relaxation techniques help? Brain works much better when relaxed. I'm kinda preoccupied with trying to get my husband out of depression and I'm noticing how he increases the pressure on the kids when they don't live up to his expectations. Extra pressure makes more problems.
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Mackfam
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Angel wrote:
I wonder maybe if she were able to take a break between finishing the work and then coming back to check it herself if that would help.
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Just wanted to update as I have gotten so many thoughtful and helpful responses - both on thread and in pm!
Here's what we have done and I am beginning to see some improvement:
- Encouraged/Required her to wear her glasses when she does her math
- Required **less** in terms of practice problems at the end of the lesson
- Allow points for following the correct steps of the problem
- A break after math work is completed and before corrections begin
- I continue to check the work, but she goes over it afterwards and identifies for me on paper *why* she missed it - math error, understanding, following directions, etc. This helps us both see how much she's missing and why.
- Continue to use graph paper to help her with neatness and lining up work
- She plays simple mathematical games with her brother (8yo) on Fridays
She still gets frustrated when she misses a problem because of a simple math error. I can see that quiet, undistracted time to work is key for her...something that is a challenge to provide in a home with littles, one of whom is always up, all of whom adore their big sister and clamor to her side at all times.
I'm still brainstorming solutions with her on this one. If I send her up to her room to work, she says that she often falls prey to distraction...if she stays downstairs or within site of the youngers, they interrupt her work. I know there is a creative solution to this and she and I are working really hard to find the one that fits her.
Thank you ladies so much for empathizing and offering realistic helps for us!!! With some tweaking, we are seeing hope!
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Jen Mackintosh
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KASB
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Mackfam wrote:
I'm still brainstorming solutions with her on this one. If I send her up to her room to work, she says that she often falls prey to distraction...if she stays downstairs or within site of the youngers, they interrupt her work. I know there is a creative solution to this and she and I are working really hard to find the one that fits her.
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Jen, our creative solution to the same type situation is to have Jack work in .... the master bathroom It is huge - such a waste of space really. He actually went in there out of frustration one day and was surprised how much work he was able to do without the noise of the little ones and the distractions of his room. It worked so well, he's continued for the past few weeks. He has been sitting on the rug, but we could put a small table in there if he wants one. And the oversized tub makes a comfortable reading spot - a few pillows and he's all set!
Blessings,
Kym
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Matilda
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KASB wrote:
Jen, our creative solution to the same type situation is to have Jack work in .... the master bathroom It is huge - such a waste of space really. |
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Absolutely brilliant! We have a large master tub that doesn't get used very often and a vanity that even has a cut out space under it so that you could slip a chair in there. What a great idea!!! 
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Mackfam
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KASB wrote:
Jen, our creative solution to the same type situation is to have Jack work in .... the master bathroom It is huge - such a waste of space really. |
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Oh...I agree completely about the waste of space...but that's another thread entirely!
It's a really good idea, Kym!!! Thank you!!! I'm going to approach this idea with my dd and see what we can come up with.
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Jen Mackintosh
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ALmom
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The other thing we did for the distraction of siblings type thing was to time math such that I scheduled outside time with the youngers - something structured that the olders would not feel like they were missing out on. This was essential on math test day. I often put the youngest in the stroller and took the other toddlers by the hand and we went for a walk around the backyard - round and round and round. Sometimes (though rarely) the baby would actually nap - and if that happened, I carried the whole stroller inside and set it in a corner of a room within sight but as far away from sudden noise as possible.
If math takes about 30 minutes, I timed it so that we came in just after the 30 minutes. If an hour, I did the same. If they were fussy, at least it was outside and not creating its own set of tension and stress for my school age folk. Everyone learned to do their most challenging, attention demanding subjects during this walk around the yard time. (I also varied it with swinging and other such). When we had a sandbox, I even dared to deal with the sand mess to buy some extra quiet time.
Janet
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mooreboyz
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Jennifer,
It sounds like you have this pretty much figured out already. I just wanted to add that my son started Algebra this year also and we've had trouble with math for the first time ever. It has always been his best and most loved subject. We've had to back up in December and review for 2 months. I'm not sure if this is new to your daughter as well; but, if so we're in the same boat.
It seems like there is just a lot to put together in Algebra. Not only are they learning a new way to figure out problems, but there are new terms, graphing, longer & more time consuming problems, and they still have to apply everything else they know as well. I don't remember having trouble much with it, but I was older (9th grade I think). I remember it being my favorite class actually.
For my son it seems like he really needs/wants me to sit with him for some of his work. If I don't, he gets distracted and complains and calls it stupid. This is a first for him. Once I spend some time with him working on a few he is all excited about it again. This is hard to do though for me as I have a bunch of younger ones running around and Algebra isn't like other math where you can just peak at the book while building with blocks or wiping a nose or cooking dinner and say, "why, yes that is the correct answer!" You need a few minutes (quite) to get inside the problem in order to understand it and then to help your child. So, for us this has been the difficult thing...finding a quite time/place where I can help him out. Generally it gets pushed to the time I'm preparing lunch and the others are having a break time and so are playing.
I've had trouble too motivating him to go work in a quite place. He doesn't want to miss out on anything it seems and so tries doing difficult work in the mist of chaos at times. I do notice that he'll seek out the bathroom (which is the warmest room if you close the door) and do his reading there. I have my 9 year old use my bedroom when he needs to focus. This is considered very special to them as they get to lay on my bed with my reading light. Any of these special quiet places are great for this difficult work. It seems like the same places we moms seek refuge when things get crazy.
As for careless errors, I 2nd the taking partial points off. I also started 5 minute math drills for all the boys on Fridays. They love these and they watch their progress over the weeks. Here's where I get my sheets for this:
math timed drills
I also make my son show all his work in algebra. This is what started him in the wrong direction to begin with. He always has done math in his head and when Algebra gets more difficult this is very tough to do. I showed him that only if he neatly writes out his work will he be able to get partial credit and only then can I see where he is having trouble. Using graph paper is a great idea. I use that when they are learning longer multiplication/division; but, this seems like a good time also.
What text are you using? We're using the Life of Fred book.
Good luck and take care!
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DianaC
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Mackfam wrote:
My 7th grader is currently doing Algebra I work. We're moving very slowly. She is understanding the abstract just fine, but she's still making mistakes with the concrete and I'm not sure what to do...if anything.
Every time I grade her work, the steps are there, the process is there, but she misses the problem. When I follow through her work I find she added 4+2+1 and got 6. When she corrects her work of course she feels awful.
She makes the same basic math errors in all four of the operations. It is enough that if graded (and I do have to turn in a grade for our cover) she is barely a B or C student. Missing multiple problems because of simple math errors is very discouraging for her, and I admit I'm getting a bit frustrated.
Do you have any ideas to help me help her? |
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We are experiencing this issue and I could have written my concern almost verbatim! I have started to re-introduce fact sheets as a way to help with carelessness in mental math, but there are still problems with simple things like writing the problem incorrectly or not actually answering what was asked.
For those of you who have already been down this road, could you share what worked best for you to overcome this issue and how long does it usually last?
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Mackfam
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DianaC wrote:
Mackfam wrote:
My 7th grader is currently doing Algebra I work. We're moving very slowly. She is understanding the abstract just fine, but she's still making mistakes with the concrete and I'm not sure what to do...if anything.
Every time I grade her work, the steps are there, the process is there, but she misses the problem. When I follow through her work I find she added 4+2+1 and got 6. When she corrects her work of course she feels awful.
She makes the same basic math errors in all four of the operations. It is enough that if graded (and I do have to turn in a grade for our cover) she is barely a B or C student. Missing multiple problems because of simple math errors is very discouraging for her, and I admit I'm getting a bit frustrated.
Do you have any ideas to help me help her? |
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We are experiencing this issue and I could have written my concern almost verbatim! I have started to re-introduce fact sheets as a way to help with carelessness in mental math, but there are still problems with simple things like writing the problem incorrectly or not actually answering what was asked.
For those of you who have already been down this road, could you share what worked best for you to overcome this issue and how long does it usually last? |
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It made me smile to see this old thread bumped. The 7th grader from this post will be a senior in high school next year!
I listed some bullet points in a post above:
Mackfam wrote:
- Encouraged/Required her to wear her glasses when she does her math
- Required **less** in terms of practice problems at the end of the lesson
- Allow points for following the correct steps of the problem
- A break after math work is completed and before corrections begin
- I continue to check the work, but she goes over it afterwards and identifies for me on paper *why* she missed it - math error, understanding, following directions, etc. This helps us both see how much she's missing and why.
- Continue to use graph paper to help her with neatness and lining up work
- She plays simple mathematical games with her brother (8yo) on Fridays
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And sticking with these really helped! I'll add a few more things that helped this student:
:: Math drills via computer/ipad apps. There must be a gazillion of them to choose from. 10 minutes of math drills every other day built her habit of correct recall.
:: Upper level math uses a calculator more and more, and these careless errors became less and less of an issue for her in terms of showing up in her work. Which was one of the reasons I assigned the simple, short math drill time via some "enjoyable" vehicle like an app or game.
:: Finally, we began playing a game together every Friday that REALLY, REALLY helped her (all of us) solidify recall and mental math skills - Sumoku. It's a fantastic game, and you have GOT to know your multiples to strategize and play this game.
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I'd say the biggest helps were cutting back on the amount of math work she had to do each day (keep it reasonable), giving the child opportunities (short!!) to practice mental math recall, and sticking with it over the long haul. We didn't see grand improvement in a month...but looking back, she and I both began to see improvement the next year.
Finally, I considered some of my job to take a non-pressuring, kind of laid-back-looking-on-the-surface approach with this challenge. Does that make sense? I was certainly paying attention to her math and any errors, but I didn't want to add stress or pressure to something my student already knew was an issue by constantly belaboring it, bringing it up, or angsting over it. So, I presented our brainstormed solution and then just let it do its work in its own time. I didn't second guess what we were doing, didn't change curriculum, and didn't really talk about it unless this student brought it up with me - and then I tried to be encouraging while helping her brainstorm and fine tune any issues she was finding.
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I wanted to address two things you specifically mentioned:
DianaC wrote:
| but there are still problems with simple things like writing the problem incorrectly or not actually answering what was asked. |
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:: Just circle (in red) any problem written incorrectly on her paper. Don't mark it wrong - just circle the problem. No words needed. She'll know that if you circled it, she must have written it incorrectly and it's her responsibility to go back, rewrite it, and work the correctly written problem out.
:: Include copywork more in her day. It encourages attentiveness to words/symbols on a page. Use tongue twisters as the source of your copywork because I've found this REALLY makes the child have to be very, very attentive.
:: With the challenge of not answering what was asked - she's being attentive to only half of the direction/problem and then tuning out important info. The key here is building the habit of attention. Try to find some simple logic word challenges to include in your days. Maybe on Friday morning, you do a couple of word challenges each day? Or something else simple like presenting one each morning while you all eat breakfast. Or find a neat book of riddles! Don't over-think this, or over-structure it - just add something really simple in that helps in building the habit of attentive listening! Something like: Brain Food: Common Sense Word Problems is fabulous - because the child's attention is actively engaged and they know they must pay attention very closely to get all the information they need to solve the problem.
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Good luck, Diana! I can't tell you how long exactly this kind of thing will last for your child, but I do want to encourage some good, solid brainstorming, and then patience in giving time for new habits of mental math recall to form. And by patience, I mean that you may not see significant improvement for a year or so.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Wildflowers and Marbles
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Angi
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What we do for my 11 year old, who seems to think that 7+4=10 (every time ) and a few other consistent silly mistakes, is let her redo it for 1/2 the points. Her Catholic school teacher generally allows this too. She recently failed a Math test because of it, but now she knows to double the basics 
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4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: What to do about careless math errors?
