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Carole N.
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| Posted: Oct 06 2008 at 9:47am | IP Logged
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I need help! Math is not my forte and since January, I have struggled with getting my ds through geometry. I am to the point where I cannot help him. My dh comes home and tutors him (and me as well). I did well in math in hs, but not in geometry ... you know it is sort of one of those areas I would like to block from my mind. 
We are using an older edition of Jacob's geometry. I thought that he would do well since he is a fairly logical child, but he really struggles with the proofs (just like mom).
Any advice? I so want this subject to be over ... 
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 Carole ... in Wales
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ALmom
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| Posted: Oct 14 2008 at 1:05pm | IP Logged
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Ok, Geometry is one of the harder math's to grade because there are a bunch of ways to do every single problem and they only list one in the AK. You have to look at the child's answer and follow it through step by step to see if it is valid and makes sense. This means you have to know some of the tendencies - pay attention to whether or not the angle is really between two sides if you are using SAS. There are certain typical oversight, misunderstanding type of rules. Sometimes my children went in huge circles but finally proved what was supposed to be proven. It wasn't the most efficient manner to do it and I liked to show her shorter ways, but also let her know that she did get it and so it was correct.
I loved Geometry, especially proofs, so I was kind of hoping that someone else would jump in that wasn't a math person and found a way to make it work. I will say, it seems to me you would have to be able to do Geometry fairly well in order to even correct your child's work. It was more time consuming and with one child, when I was in the middle of 3 folks doing vision therapy, I actually signed up for Seton's Geometry just so my child would have another avenue for getting answers and for grading questions. The person helping with the Geometry at the time was quite good and very helpful to my daughter. I know you can do single course enrollments with them, they use a fairly decent book, though it wasn't my favorite.
Also, you might look for a tutor or another mom with whom you could trade or just have dad do the next days lesson the day before so and grade in the evening - ie dad becomes the permanent teacher of the class. If you feel confident in literature or something, I know I would have jumped at an opportunity to offload teaching composition to someone in exchange for me teaching Geometry.
Oh, and I don't particularly like the way Jacob's Geometry does proofs at least not in the older edition. I've heard the newer edition is better but I haven't seen it. I have yet to find the Geometry book I loved and had in high school. We proved every single thing we used systematically from start to finish except for a few definitions that were given right at the start.
Oh, also the Jacob's teacher's manual is not as helpful as others because you cannot even read the overheads you are supposed to use and they seem more about trying to make folks curious not necessarily about how you use Geometry or don't forget to point this out to students kind of stuff. Other texts I have (Mcdowell/Littel or Geometry for Enjoyment and Challenge both from the 1980s) have much better teacher support and seem more organized. I know that at least one of them I ordered the teacher's manual from the publisher. I had to have my administrator of the church school sign that I was teaching, but it really wasn't difficult. Just depends on how anxious you are to become a Geometry expert - and sounds like you are not particularly looking forward to that. All of us have limited time as well so that is another factor.
I know at this point it is not ideal to change texts nor necessarily pay extra for support. Just thought you'd like to know that I found the text harder to use than most and I love Geometry.
Really just trying to bump this up so someone out there can give you better ideas. If you lived close to me, I'd say, just send him over to study with us.
Janet
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Carole N.
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| Posted: Oct 14 2008 at 4:39pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Janet, I certainly appreciate your offer and your advice. I do remember my geometry being mostly proofs with very few definitions offered as well (I think that we called them postulates). We have had a better week this week since we are working with sin/cos/tan and he is really loving this part! Test tomorrow.
Perhaps we will take the route where dad tutors. After all he is a math person and he seems to just understand without much of a challenge. And he does make it more fun for ds.
And by the way, dh did not much care for the proofs part either. I am not certain that he has ever used it in real life (although he has certainly used cos/sin/tan.) 
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Carole ... in Wales
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ALmom
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| Posted: Oct 14 2008 at 6:16pm | IP Logged
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Carole:
Glad it is going better. Don't know why I liked proofs so much. I also liked research papers. I hated PE, art, music, projects and experiments. My children and husband still look at me as if I am some odd alien based on the things I loved and the things I hated. I had a harder time with practical math like differential equations and Calculus I. I loved Geometry, Algebra and Algebraic theory. Guess it was like other people have fun doing crossword puzzles - just a number/logic game. I used to like to see how many different ways I could prove the thing - kind of like calculating upteen different paths so I could land on the space to steal the jewel in that board game. Oh and we use geometry/physics around the dinner table - the tower restaurant they just built looks smaller than the actual rocket. I wonder if it is. How would you figure it out if you couldn't/ weren't allowed to climb the fence to measure it. Of course this works because of the relationships in triangles and is using more of the sin, cos kind of stuff. Oh, that was fun too, the manipulations with trig functions.
My husband is a much more natural teacher though and connects better academically with the kids. I bumble along as best I can. Now why did God give him all the talent to teach and has me doing most of the "formal" teaching since the talented teacher is working and then we have family time and eating time and bedtime. Probably most of the real learning occurs when dad is home, right? It is rough on my pride.
Janet
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Carole N.
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| Posted: Oct 15 2008 at 3:06am | IP Logged
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Janet, I can relate to your wanting to prove things. We just had a discussion here about how to use sin, cos to figure out the measurements for the installation of a pipe to our new boiler system (don't worry, the Corgi gas guy is really installing it)! I just listened to it in total amazement as they went on about angles and height, etc.  This is a standard dinner conversation in our home!
Yes, dh can make school more fun. My subjects are definitely history and literature (which my ds loves), but I sometimes wonder if it is because I have been the primary teacher in his life? And yes, it is tough for me as well ... always second guessing about what to teach, trying to find the perfect curriculum! It is a never ending search for me (but I do love looking at different programs), but I admit that the insecurity in math and science may have taken its toll. 
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Carole ... in Wales
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Oct 15 2008 at 5:48am | IP Logged
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The newer Jacobs edition has far fewer proofs, I think.
But...if you decide to switch texts, you might want to consider Teaching Textbooks instead. (CDs with detailed explanations come with the program.)
Not that you need to, if your dh can help on a consistent basis, of course!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Carole N.
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| Posted: Oct 15 2008 at 11:24am | IP Logged
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I thought of that Nancy. Especially since I have another one coming up behind him and she is wondering how she is ever going to understand this (she is more mathematically inclined, I think). However, dh did not want me to replace the book, just to plod through what we have. And besides, Teaching Textbook is not available over here. At least not that I know of.
However, I did already purchase TT Algebra II. I really do love their program, but I heard it is not as advanced as Saxon math. I wish now that I had purchased their geometry as well. What could I have been thinking?
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Carole ... in Wales
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4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: Geometry help
