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Lorri
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| Posted: April 07 2008 at 1:04pm | IP Logged
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Does anyone have a child with dyscalculia (math learning disability)? I strongly suspect my 9 yo is more than just weak in math. I'd love any insight and encouragement from someone who has dealt with this.
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Lorri
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The Mac and Cheese Chronicles
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Taffy
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| Posted: April 07 2008 at 3:30pm | IP Logged
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Do you think that the problem may be that your child has a hard time picturing math problems in his/her head?
I am not dealing with dyscalcula, but my oldest with autism has a language delay which makes story problems particularly challenging. He also has difficulties with comparing numbers - it's the language that gets to him.
Anyway, while searching for help for this, I came across a math program that I believe would be very helpful for those who have math troubles. It's called On Cloud Nine.
This program is meant to help those who have a hard time visualizing how numbers come together and interact with each other. It helps students learn to "see" how 2+3=5; students should understand why it does and not simply remember the answer.
I have no experience with this program but I am using this company's language programs and find them to be very helpful. And, as someone who has helped many people who are not "mathematically inclined", I believe that this inability to visualize arithmetic principles is a large part of many peoples' problems with math. It is very important to understand the why of numeric equations - not just memorize the answer but understand why the answer is what it is.
Hope this helps and, if it doesn't, hope that someone offers you some helpful advice soon. 
BTW - I hope this makes sense - too much coffee and not enough sleep today. 
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Susan
Mom to 5 on earth and 1 in heaven
Susan's Soliloquy
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Lorri
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| Posted: April 07 2008 at 5:53pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Susan. My ds has not been diagnosed by anyone but me and my internet research, LOL! But he fits so many of the traits of a math LD. I'm not sure exactly what the problem is.
The most basic explanation would be that he cannot remember basic math facts unless we review all of them every day. It's like the information sits on the top of his brain and never sinks in. The other day he was doing a review sheet of mostly subtraction problems. He missed the addition problem thrown in - and was ready to argue to the death that he had done it correctly, even when I had him read it out loud and he read, "five plus seven." He even built the problem with manipulatives as a subtraction problem. Then the next day he about lost his mind when he couldn't remember how to do 4-0. And that's just the tip of the iceberg!
I'm going to go check that link...
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Lorri
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Donna Marie
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| Posted: April 07 2008 at 6:46pm | IP Logged
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It sounds like my dd has this same problem. I started using the Audiblox program with her for awhile and used Right Start Math. Barbara Little (from Wooly Lamb Publishing/ History Links and audiblox) said that this was the best math program for people with this kind of problem...it is very visual and great for hands-on learning.
To me, it was a pain at first to get into the swing of using it as I am teaching 6 levels of math at once. (I had to present the lessons and I didn't want that all of the time as I was looking for a program that could be more student-led.) Then I thought about how Montessorial it was and I gave it a better try. When I saw the difference it made in her understanding I was quickly converted.
As a matter of fact we are making it a priority to play the Math Card Games all summer to improve skills and keep them sharp. I plan on ordering the DVD so my 12ds can teach them better to the younger ones 
HTH!
God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 7dc +one more due 10/08
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God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 9dc!!
Finding Elegant Simplicity
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Taffy
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| Posted: April 07 2008 at 7:11pm | IP Logged
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Lorri,
It sounds very much to me like your son is simply trying to memorize the math facts but doesn't have enough comprehension for what they really mean. Of course, this is from very little info...
I'd strongly suggest using manipulatives to answer math facts for the next two weeks at least. Even if it means stepping back in math for a while - the investment will be well worth it. Your son needs to be able to visualize the concept in his mind to truly understand it.
As an example, my oldest attended school for a short time. Prior to attending school, he had a pretty good grasp of addition/subtraction facts. They weren't memorized, but he was pretty accurate when answering these types of questions - just VERY slow. At first, we used math blocks to answer all questions. We would physically move the blocks around to illustrate the concept. For instance, to answer 2+3 I would show him two piles of cubes, one pile had 2 blocks and one had 3. Then I would squish the two piles into one while reading the equation. Finally, I would have him illustrate this to me to show he understood it.
After a while, he would count in his head to answer the question. I could see him looking upward and counting the cubes out to himself. This was great - he was truly visualizing the problem and was very successful, even though he was slow.
In school, he was taught to use his fingers. At the time, I wasn't bothered by this since it did speed things up. However, I did notice that he became overly dependent on his fingers and no longer trusted his judgment. He spent too much time focusing on counting his fingers and wasn't able to see the "big picture" very well anymore. We went back to using the math cubes.
At this point, he still uses his fingers to check himself, but his confidence is greatly improved. We did daily drill practice of his math facts once I knew that he had a true understanding of the concept. Dh is a high school math teacher and strongly believes it's important to know these math facts well enough so that you don't have to put much thought into it - makes higher math that much easier to learn. But, there is no point in memorizing these facts until the concept is truly understood.
Sorry if I'm totally off base here, just trying to help.
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Susan
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JuliaT
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| Posted: April 08 2008 at 8:17am | IP Logged
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Lorri, I don't have alot of time so I will quickly give you my story. I think that my dd has dyscalculia but it is only an armchair diagnosis through internet reading. My dd is 8 and has a horrible time remembering math facts. But it goes much deeper than this. From my reading of Dyscalculia, there are a number of characteristics. I will give you my dd's.
My dd has a hard time with spelling and grammar. She cannot spell the easiest of words. She cannot remember what a noun or verb is. She cannot tell time. We have worked on this since she was in K and she still can't get the basics down. She has problems remembering people's names, as well as new words. She has a difficult time reading music but if I tell her the notes she can play the piece beautifully. Dyscalculia is dyslexia with numbers. My dh has a mild level of dyslexia. (I have read that these things can be hereditary.) These are all characteristics of dyscalculia.
There was a post recently on the living math yahoo group about Dyscalculia. I shared that I thought my dd had this and I was given the reply that it was probably just an issue of math readiness. I was told that just because a child can't remember their math facts doesn't mean that there is a label to be put on them. If it was just the math facts then I would agree with them but there is much more to Dyscalculia than math facts. There are other areas of difficulty as well.
If I have time later today or this week, I will try to find the site that gave me the characterisitcs. I agree with Susan that you should still use manipulatives. If your ds, does have dyscalculia, I would just give him either the manipulatives or a chart with the math facts. This isn't cheating, this is building him up for success. I have noticed with my dd that even though she cannot handle computation, she loves doing higher math. So I don't hold her back from doing that just because she can't add or subtract.
Julia
mom of 3 (8,7,5)
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Lorri
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| Posted: April 08 2008 at 10:43am | IP Logged
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Thank you all for your suggestions and thoughts.
Right now we are using Math U See, which is heavy on the manipultives and stress the importance of understanding how/why a math problem is worked the way it is. MUS has been a huge blessing and we've made great strides. And yet my ds struggles.
Julia - I can so relate to much of what you wrote. I have considered that maybe he's "just not ready for math," but he exhibits so many signs of dyscalculia. I have found the site that lists the characteristics and while he doesn't have them all, he has quite a few!
Susan- he does try to memorize just the facts, but they don't sink in. How knows how to subtract 9 from any number, but needs to be reminded constantly. If I tell him how, he can then do any -9 problem. But the next day, he'll need reminding again.
Poor kid! He's so bright and loves school, just not the math! I'm so glad he's homeschooled because he'd be failing math in ps. I can't imagine how hard it would be for him to see how he compares with other dc. He'd be miserable. Even at home, his younger sister is at least average, if not above average in math skills. That's a whole other issue itself!
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Lorri
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JuliaT
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| Posted: April 09 2008 at 8:07am | IP Logged
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Lorri, I can tell you how we are dealing with all of this. Maybe what we do can give you some ideas that may help your son. We use RightStart Math. They use games to teach math facts. So we play lots of games. This doesn't help so much in cementing the facts but it has helped to allieve the math stress that my dd has adopted.
My dd dislikes math intensely and she sees herself as dumb due to her math struggles. So I have tried to think of ways to make math more fun. I also want her to see that math can be beautiful. So we do alot of living math. We play games, read math storybooks, do hands on math activities, logic puzzles, etc. I want her to see that math does not have to be just computation.
I have amassed quite a collection of living math resources and I use these heavily to inspire us. I use these also to introduce my dd to higher math. She is pretty good at this actually. I am finding that, even though, she struggles with math facts, she is good at the other 'mathy' stuff. She is learning about Prime numbers, circumference, radius, ratio, etc. I think I am slowly proving to her that math does not have to be stressful.
You may already be doing these things but maybe my words will give birth to another idea for you.
Blessings,
Julia
mom of 3 (8,7,5)
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4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: Dyscalculia?
