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Cathmomof8
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| Posted: March 14 2007 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
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My poor ds is really struggling with Math and looking back I can see this has been the case for years. The first half of the year goes pretty well, then all of a sudden it seems he has no idea what he is doing, I blame the material, we switch and the next year is the same. Let's see, I think for him we've used Singapore, Abeka, Horizons, Miquon,Saxon, Key To... and ?? (not in that order). This year he has been working with Videotext. And he has a tutor that comes on MOndays for a bit.
After working with him this past week, and especially today, I can just see that his foundational understanding is so poor that he get's so overwhelmed and frustrated when we try to build on concepts. I see now (nice, seeing that it is MARCH) that he should have done more of a basic Math again this year instead of trying Prealgebra, especially the Videotext, which I really like but is at at a higher level of thinking than I think he is at right now). But he has had HIghs and Lows with this program and his tutor and I both felt he should just keep trying to move forward.
Today he was so frustrated again and 'hates' Math. We were trying to do the basic linear equations and graphing points. But I realized that he is soooo inconsistent in just solving problems. He obviously doesn't know, with any confidence or and consistency, what to do. One problem he does fine and the next he has no clue. Part of it is I think he just freezes up when he doesn't think he knows what to do.
I figure we could almost have 3 solid months to work and maybe ( said with trepidation because we've neve followed through with summer work)continue with some through the summer. Sooooooo, I was looking at possibly the Abeka 7th or 8th as a straightforward text because I'm familiar with Abeka Math. I've thought about MUS prealgebra, but John has told me he 'hates watching those dvds'. I just don't know. I really want to prepare him for Highschool Math. As an aside, I really think that his analytical skills are still slooooowly developing. I see this in problems with Grammar, writing developed and ordered essays, etc.
We just started using MUS this year with 3rd grader and 1st grader. 6th gr ds has used Abeka straight through and is going strong with it. 10th grader is doing Alg 2 with book our Tutor likes. Eldest ds struggled in a similar way to John and used Abeka mostly from 8-10th with Jacob's in 10th gr. He survived Alg 2 in Public school and isn't taking Math his senior year at all.
Forgive me if this post is jumbled. I've been interrupted so many times even though it was supposed to be my '15 minute lunch break'. My almost 1yo really doesn't care about my little timer and the others seemed to want their own breaks. ;)
Million things to do besides worry about math at the moment but.... 
Theresia
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Maria B.
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| Posted: March 14 2007 at 9:49pm | IP Logged
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Theresia:
If your son is struggling with Math, I would not use Abeka. I find it to be tough for any of my kids who struggle with Math. I have had great luck with the Teaching Textbooks series for my 8th grade duaghter who stuggles in Math. A drawback for you would be that it uses a DVD and you said your son does not care for that. Another good option would be MUS.
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Maria in VA
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: March 15 2007 at 9:57am | IP Logged
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I cannot recommend a specific math text for your son (because we've only used random workbooks and MUS. I have looked at Saxon and Singapore too, but haven't used them with the kids). Whatever text you choose to use with your son, I would go back -- way back -- and review. It is so difficult to grasp new concepts if you've missed the foundation. Does he have a strong handle on fractions? In order to do well in Algebra, I think that he needs to grasp the concepts of multiplication and division with fractions, manipulating fractions by reducing or finding common denominators, manipulating equations (through addition, subtraction, mult. and division) in order to isolate the unknowns (the "x" in aglebra). My 7th grader would seem to do fine with these concepts until we set them down for a time and tried to take them back up again. Then he would get lost and not remember what to do to find common denominators or any of the things that he'd been doing for months. So we kept going back to the VERY basics. It is important to understand (as much as possible) the "why" of math. Because if they just memorize the forumla, when the problems get more complicated and don't fit the exact forumla they know, they will be lost and won't know what to do.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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z2_mom
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| Posted: March 15 2007 at 12:50pm | IP Logged
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There is a book that I have recently found. It is a college textbook but is a remedial math course. It is made for self teaching. It is basically for adults who are going to college who either need to refresh there math skills or learn them. Some people take 2 years to do the book but others have done it is a year. It is a think book , 700 + pages. It covers everything from say about 4 grade through pre-algebra. So when a child finishes this they should transition well into algebra 1. I have discovered that many homescholers are using this as a junior high course. I am going to use it with my daughter starting next year. She ready for prealgebra but due to her age I want to put it off for a year. I am going to use this book for 6 and 7 grade and then algebra in 8. You can used copies on amazon for under $20, they also have a video tutor that you can purchase for $35.
Margaret Lial is the main author and the series is published by Pearson/Addison Wesley
Here are the isbn numbers for the 6th edition:
student text 0321064577
Digital Video Tutor (DVTs) 0201090896
lynda
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Leonie
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| Posted: March 18 2007 at 9:10pm | IP Logged
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My fourth son was one that struggled with Maths concepts - when he was around year 7& age, we just decided to drop Maths for a year. Formal Maths I mean.
Yes, we kept up games and reading and cooking and so on but we didn't touch any formal maths. I think he needed the respite - he came back into some written maths work a year later, with new confience.
Just a thought...
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Leonie in Sydney
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Cathmomof8
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| Posted: March 26 2007 at 12:59pm | IP Logged
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Leonie, I should have done that for John years ago - let him take a break from Math- but now in 8th gr, w/ hs around the corner I think I need to move him forward as much as possible. sigh. Poor kid. His math tutor told me today that he just can't remember the things from one day to the next. for instance, for WEEKS we've been working on graphing coordinates. He still can't keep it straight that the 'x' is the first of the pair and the horizontal number on the graph. (x,y) We just keep doing the same lessons over and over, thinking he gets it, move on to the next lesson and realize, nope, still doesn't understand for CERTAIN, how to solve a simple equation. double sigh.
And then there is my 10th gr ds doing Agl 2 this year and planning to go to PS next year. Our tutor told us today that he should consider taking Alg 2 again next year because he isn't possibly going to get through the material this year. yikes.
doing something wrong around here...
Theresia
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: March 27 2007 at 9:52am | IP Logged
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Oh, Theresia, you're not doing anything wrong! Children have different strengths and weaknesses, and learn at different paces. It is wonderful that they have had the opportunity to have a math tutor and that you have been blessed to see where they are and where they struggle.
With John, does he have trouble remembering non-math related things from one day to the next?
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Cathmomof8
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| Posted: March 27 2007 at 11:38am | IP Logged
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cathhomeschool wrote:
With John, does he have trouble remembering non-math related things from one day to the next? |
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Yes, I think he does. We have similar problems with grammar, or anything that builds. He struggles with poetry memorization a lot. Cathechism memorization? forget it - like torture for him. And I think he has difficulty ordering things in his head - it's hard for him to organize info and present it, especially orally. I find he has trouble picking out important info from his reading too. But he is a very good reader. And he can remember LOTS of details about paint ball guns, equipment, etc. ;)
thanks for your kind words and input. I can't help thinking - but he's in 8th grade now!! Have I been blind to all of this or is it because of the kind of work he has this year that it is more apparent? He's been a very independent worker over the years but obviously could have used more one on one time. But this year he's getting most of my time - not that he always appreciates it. ;) I find 14yo boys just LOOOOOVE spending lots of time with their Mommy working on things that are frustrating and difficult. poor kid.
Theresia
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Leonie
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| Posted: March 27 2007 at 3:42pm | IP Logged
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Cathmomof8 wrote:
| Poor kid. His math tutor told me today that he just can't remember the things from one day to the next. Theresia |
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I work at a Kumon Education Centre and one of the advantages for kids who find it difficult to remember process etc, is the repetition we do. I wonder if a similar programme, with lots of repetition to get the ideas from the short to the long term memory, might work for your ds? You wouldnt necessarily have to buy any new programme - the tutor may be able to adapt the current programme and wok on lots of daily repetition in addition to the usual work...
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Leonie in Sydney
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momwise
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| Posted: April 21 2007 at 8:57am | IP Logged
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Theresia,
I am feeling for you, really. I have a dc that could not grasp most any math concept by 8th grade. I agree it's scary with high school looming, but...I took Leonie's advice back then and let her go through 9th & 10th with games, math related "real books," the Family Math program, which we did not use on a regular basis but picked through and introduced various concepts through manipulatives,etc., and videos now and then. We covered fractions solely through 2 yrs. of cooking and converting recipes.
Now, things are finally clicking for her and she finished the Key to Percents and is now working through Key to Algebra. So she'll have Algebra and Geometry (try switching to Geometry right now if you don't want to give up formal math programs) and some SAT prep by the time she finishes high school. If he covers 3 yrs. of math in 10-12 and takes 9th off to recover for a while, he'll still have enough under his belt if he wants to be in a "non-math" career.
I've tried to help dd with confidence by bolstering her artistic, creative skills and reinforcing that God's plan for each of us is so individualized we can't focus on what He's given to others (this is because her younger brothers are "getting" their math concepts so much more quickly than she).
EDA:
Family Math: the Middle School Years
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"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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momwise
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| Posted: April 21 2007 at 8:58am | IP Logged
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Leonie wrote:
| one of the advantages for kids who find it difficult to remember process etc, is the repetition we do. .. |
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We've begun using Calculadder for this and I wish I had used it all along.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Leonie
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| Posted: April 21 2007 at 5:15pm | IP Logged
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momwise wrote:
| Now, things are finally clicking for her and she finished the Key to Percents and is now working through Key to Algebra. .....I've tried to help dd with confidence by bolstering her artistic, creative skills and reinforcing that God's plan for each of us is so individualized we can't focus on what He's given to others (this is because her younger brothers are "getting" their math concepts so much more quickly than she). |
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Gwen, thanks so much for sharing - it is good to read stories like yours and to see what helps other children.
BTW, I love your comment above re God's individual plan for each of us.
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Leonie in Sydney
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Willa
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| Posted: April 22 2007 at 11:02am | IP Logged
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Cathmomof8 wrote:
thanks for your kind words and input. I can't help thinking - but he's in 8th grade now!! Have I been blind to all of this or is it because of the kind of work he has this year that it is more apparent?
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I know how you feel being similarly a mom with a large busy family.
If it's any help, I was just reading in Myth of Laziness (about subtle learning deficits) that many times, MILD glitches in the learning process don't become evident until the older ages.
I have a couple of kids like that. A lot of times, kids can cope with the material until they reach a certain point where they are expected to do certain complex operations. Often it is writing, but math can be that way too.
KEy to Algebra has been extremely helpful to two of my kids because it breaks down the algebra concepts into small steps -- a bit like a phonics program for algebra. When the kid has trouble it's easier to see specifically WHAT he is having trouble with and remediate right away.
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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NicolaM
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I agree that he should go back, way back, and find a level of math that he can do, where he can feel confident and succeed, and go from there. Start at some point where it is easy for him, let him discover that he "can" do math.
The Key To books are a good idea, so would Singapore going back to say level 3. Another idea if he needs help with basic facts, addition, subtraction, multiplication is to go through the activities at this site.
Michele's Math:
http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/mmathmenu.htm
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momwise
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momwise wrote:
If he covers 3 yrs. of math in 10-12 and takes 9th off to recover for a while, he'll still have enough under his belt if he wants to be in a "non-math" career. |
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I had to come back and tell you I must have lost my mind for awhile to make that post. Of course you can skip 9th gr. and still have plenty of math for a "math career," what was I thinking? I even talked with my ds's Programming mentor who told me logical thinking skills, not math skills are responsible for the best programmers. I'll bet you could find a heap of homeschoolers who skipped math for a couple of grades and got it all in in the later years once they had a motivation or it "clicked."
BTW, Leonie, you and so many of the other moms here have inspired me to prayerfully taylor the dc's education goals according to who God wants them to be but I have to admit I was plenty worried while the math was on hold. It's always hardest the first time; there's one more thing I can relax on with the up and coming dc. 
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Cathmomof8
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| Posted: April 23 2007 at 12:13pm | IP Logged
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Oh dear, oh my! Skip a year of Math?! I'm sure John could do that but would I survive the worrying about it?? ;) It goes so much against my grain but I really see the wisdom in it. Not sure what MODG would say about it? I'm afraid his math tutor might have a heart attack too. (Shi is 85yo) BUUUUT, I have wondered just how John is going to handle the highschool work load with MODG. No spending so much time on math might be an answer. Seems like this year I've had to spend intense time with him with Math, grammar, religion and history - the writing portions and developing better skills in oral and written work.
And if we weren't going to use a formal proram for math, I fear it would never get done.
Thanks for giving me things to think about 'outside the box'. I really need the perspective.
And right now I need about 3 more hands. I've been tending sick kids and myself for 5 days and I think 1yo dear Annemarie woke up with a fever. yikes. praying she is spared the awful cough the rest of us have.
rambling as usual,
Theresia
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: April 23 2007 at 9:09pm | IP Logged
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Leonie wrote:
Cathmomof8 wrote:
| Poor kid. His math tutor told me today that he just can't remember the things from one day to the next. Theresia |
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I work at a Kumon Education Centre and one of the advantages for kids who find it difficult to remember process etc, is the repetition we do. I wonder if a similar programme, with lots of repetition to get the ideas from the short to the long term memory, might work for your ds? |
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Repetition might be very helpful. Perhaps (since you're considering dropping math for the year) you could spend time just reviewing with lots of repetition and no pressure.
It seems, though, that this really isn't about math, since he struggles with memory in other subjects as well. Perhaps if you could spend some time trying to figure out how he learns best (what style) or how to address the memory issue in general, then math and everything else would be easier (because you could adjust the curriculum accordingly)? Maybe he is a very visual or an auditory learner? I don't know much of anything about learning styles or memory issues, so please keep that in mind. I just wonder if maybe it would be less frustrating and more beneficial to figure out *why* he can't remember and work from there. Obviously, he can remember some things since he knows paintball rules and knows how to read.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Leonie
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| Posted: April 23 2007 at 9:54pm | IP Logged
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Cathmomof8 wrote:
And right now I need about 3 more hands. I've been tending sick kids and myself for 5 days and I think 1yo dear Annemarie woke up with a fever. yikes. praying she is spared the awful cough the rest of us have.
rambling as usual,
Theresia |
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Oh, I hope everyone gets better!
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Leonie in Sydney
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4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: struggling 8th grader
