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kjohnson
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| Posted: Oct 24 2006 at 5:23pm | IP Logged
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My oldest is 11 and we began using Simply Grammar (the revision of Charlotte Mason's grammar text by Karen Andreola) this fall. I like the light approach and it's nice that most can be done orally, but my dd isn't learning anything new from it. We have been studying Latin and we've covered every basic grammar concept. Today's lesson from Simply Grammar was on adjectives. My dd already knew the purpose of adjectives from Prima Latina. She very patiently sat through the lesson, but it seemed like such a waste of time.
Do those of you who are studying Latin (and plan on continuting the study of Latin for the long run) use a separate English grammar text? Is there any need for one? I know the Latin-Centered Curriculum would say that teaching English grammar is not necessary if the student is already studying Latin. But I want to hear that from an actual home educator and not a curriculum book. 
I'd appreciate any insight (before I chuck Simply Grammar into my already loaded school closet...the textbook grave yard!) 
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Katherine
Wife to Doug and Mother of 6
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ALmom
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| Posted: Oct 24 2006 at 9:06pm | IP Logged
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Katherine:
We do one intense grammar course in upper middle school that includes diagramming. In elementary, I use CHC gently, taking as long as we need and applying it to what they are reading/writing. My younger children who are doing Latina Christiani (level I) do some grammar (the light CHC variety) because grammar is a weakness for them and they need this to get a handle on the Latin. Also, the focus on the Latin this year is mostly Latin prayers, some vocabulary, but not a whole lot of grammar.
My highschooler who is taking Wheelock Latin does not have any formal grammar lessons. I have Grammar Plus, a book about diagramming and Voyages, in addition to several writing reference books. My plan with her has been to introduce only those grammar lessons that seem relevant. For example, if she got bogged down with Latin, I might double check to make sure it wasn't because of a grammar concept missed. If I see a paper with improper use of commas, then we'd pull out Grammar Plus or Voyages and do a lesson or two in punctuation. So far we have not had to do any grammar.
Even with one child that didn't take Latin, I gave her one intense course in grammar in 6th grade and did a lot of diagramming of beautiful writing (Mary Daly's Diagramming Book)in 8th and 9th. By 10th grade, she simply took a bunch of grammar tests at the beginning of the year (we were with Seton at the time) to be done with it. She had no problems with the grammar portion of the SAT and does not have problems using correct grammar in her writing. Now, this may have been a particular strength of this child, but it seems pointless to do a bunch of stuff when the child already knows the material whether or not they are taking Latin.
I doubt that anyone having an easy time with Latin has much trouble with parts of speech and I certainly would skip that part. Even Seton allows their 9th graders to skip grammar if they are taking Latin.
Janet
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JuliaT
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| Posted: Oct 24 2006 at 9:19pm | IP Logged
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My dd is younger than yours so take this with a grain of salt. We used PL for latin and will be starting LC1 soon. I use a grammar program as a reference for what we are doing in latin. If we are doing verbs in latin, then we will do some of the exercises on verbs in our grammar book. There are some things that are in the grammar book that latin does not cover, so we do those things as well.
I use the grammar book as a supplement to latin. I don't use it as a separate subject.
Blessings,
Julia
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/Juliainsk
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vmalott
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| Posted: Oct 25 2006 at 7:11am | IP Logged
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Quote:
| I know the Latin-Centered Curriculum would say that teaching English grammar is not necessary if the student is already studying Latin. But I want to hear that from an actual home educator and not a curriculum book. |
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Well, in Drew's defense, he is an actual homeschooler, although his daughter is a bit young.
Still, we have disliked formal grammar programs we've attempted to use in the past, such as Easy Grammar. I don't really consider Simply Grammar a formal program, though, so keep that in mind. 
I have found it much easier this year to get the grammar concepts across through the study of Latin and just review them daily until it is in their heads. I think once we finish w/LCII and before we start with Henle, I will do some diagramming exercises so the Latin diagramming won't completely throw them once they encounter it in Henle.
Like the others, I think it is easiest and best to approach grammar on an as-needed basis. So, no, don't ditch the book, but also don't re-teach concepts that your children already have a handle on.
Valerie
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Valerie
Mom to Julia ('94), John ('96), Lizzy ('98), Connor ('01), Drew ('02), Cate ('04), Aidan ('08) and three saints in heaven
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kjohnson
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| Posted: Oct 25 2006 at 8:22am | IP Logged
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[QUOTE=vmalott] Well, in Drew's defense, he is an actual homeschooler, although his daughter is a bit young.
That's good to know. I didn't know if it was like one of those parenting books written by someone who had no children.
Thanks for everyone's insight thus far. It's been very helpful.
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In Christ,
Katherine
Wife to Doug and Mother of 6
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Latin and Grammar
