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Angel
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| Posted: Sept 28 2010 at 8:58am | IP Logged
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I'm looking for some tips in doing oral narrations to lead to written narrations for kids about grades 7-9. (My 13 yo is pretty much grade 8/9; my 11 yo dd grade 6/7.)
First some history. My oldest ds, as many of you know, has some special behavioral needs which resulted in some VERY rocky early years. When he was about 6 or 7, I attempted to start formal narration with him, but it was like... well, "pulling teeth" doesn't cover it.  It wasn't that he couldn't remember what we read, because he has a phenomenal memory, but more like, he didn't see the point in telling me back what he OBVIOUSLY knew and what I had just read to him out loud.
Anyway, I dropped it in favor of a much more informal practice of asking the kids to tell me what they remembered from our reading of the day before prior to our daily reading sessions. This worked pretty well, but obviously now I don't read TO them as much, so I'd like them to narrate at least some of what they are reading on their own... with an eye to using the oral narration process to transition to writing.
So it's going all right this year, although part of my problem is *me* remembering to ask  ... but there are a few things I'm wondering about, specifically in the case of older kids.
*Do you make any suggestions along the lines of, "Try not to start every sentence with "And" or "And then"?
*When you do narrations, do your children tell back in narrative form or is it more like discussion? For instance, my older kids interrupt themselves to add editorials, as in, "Hermes stole Apollo's cattle -- I don't know why nobody noticed because he was a baby and I don't know why nobody noticed a baby herding a bunch of cattle, and then he made them walk backwards so that nobody would know he took them because they were covering their own tracks, and he got really mad (at this point I interject, "Who 'he'?" as I am big on antecedents)..." You get the picture.
*What about encouraging summarization? For instance, my ds is remarkably good at synthesizing novels in back cover copy (this is really a difficult skill, actually, if you've never tried it), but when I ask him to tell me about a chapter he's just read he will pretty much tell me every little detail that happened. Not parrotting it back word for word, just all the little details, whether they are the REALLY important ones for plot, character, or historical or scientific understanding or what. I would like to encourage summarization as I think it's necessary for writing, but we're not quite to the writing point yet. (I do like Jen's suggestion from her blog of typing in a narration as an aid to actual composition. I have seen the same sort of thing mentioned elsewhere, and it's something I plan to do as well.)
*How many oral narrations are you doing a day? Have you read the books your children are narrating from?
I may have other questions, but the baby is crying so I think that will do for now. 
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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Angel
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| Posted: Oct 07 2010 at 12:38pm | IP Logged
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Bumping this... I'm sure *someone* can give me some advice... I'm now trying to work my way around, "Asking me to narrate makes me not want to read the book." 
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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Erin
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| Posted: Oct 07 2010 at 3:49pm | IP Logged
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Well Angela I'm waiting for someone else to answer too Although my ds' will take an oral narration over a written narration any day.
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Erin
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Oct 07 2010 at 4:54pm | IP Logged
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I will try to answer as best I can, but my ds is 15 so keep that in mind.
Angel wrote:
*Do you make any suggestions along the lines of, "Try not to start every sentence with "And" or "And then"?
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I do, but not at the time he is narrating. I may start off the day with a suggestion for one thing I want him to work on, such as not saying "uh" before every sentence. I will ask him to keep that in mind that day as he narrates, and perhaps remind him of it before he begins his first narration of the day. I also make sure to give him some input on that skill after his narration, along the lines of, "I heard lots fewer "uh"s this time. Good work!" I've seen steady progress already this year with this approach.
Angel wrote:
*When you do narrations, do your children tell back in narrative form or is it more like discussion? For instance, my older kids interrupt themselves to add editorials, as in, "Hermes stole Apollo's cattle -- I don't know why nobody noticed because he was a baby and I don't know why nobody noticed a baby herding a bunch of cattle, and then he made them walk backwards so that nobody would know he took them because they were covering their own tracks, and he got really mad (at this point I interject, "Who 'he'?" as I am big on antecedents)..." You get the picture.
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Sometimes it is more formal, sometimes it evolves into a discussion. I think either way is okay, as long as he is capable of doing both ways fairly well.
Angel wrote:
*What about encouraging summarization? For instance, my ds is remarkably good at synthesizing novels in back cover copy (this is really a difficult skill, actually, if you've never tried it), but when I ask him to tell me about a chapter he's just read he will pretty much tell me every little detail that happened. Not parrotting it back word for word, just all the little details, whether they are the REALLY important ones for plot, character, or historical or scientific understanding or what. I would like to encourage summarization as I think it's necessary for writing, but we're not quite to the writing point yet. (I do like Jen's suggestion from her blog of typing in a narration as an aid to actual composition. I have seen the same sort of thing mentioned elsewhere, and it's something I plan to do as well.)
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I think summarization is an important skill to have. You might say, before he begins his narration "Can you tell me the story of Hermes and the cattle, keeping it short? Only tell me the main points and the most important details.I'll let you know if you are giving me too much detail by saying 'lets move on, please' (or some other agreed-upon cue)"
Angel wrote:
*How many oral narrations are you doing a day? Have you read the books your children are narrating from?
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About 4-5 narrations a day, but it varies based on the time we have, etc.
And I have, for the most part, read the books ahead of time, though not always.
Not sure I can address the attitude of not wanting to read due to narrations.
I explained to ds at the beginning of the year that narrations develop skills that I think are important, that they will cement his learning, and that they are taking the place of comprehension questions and tests for me to assess his learning. Luckily for me, he is mature enough to see that he is getting a good bargain here!LOL!
Hope that helps!
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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Angel
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| Posted: Oct 11 2010 at 4:55pm | IP Logged
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Just wanted to pop in here and add a link to a resource which I think will be helpful for me and anybody else with older kids (as well as younger kids, but I think it's more difficult to find the info for older kids):
I just ordered Simply Charlotte Mason's new book Hearing and Reading, Telling and Writing. I ordered it as an e-book and am going to have to print it out and bind it to properly digest it, but the appendices include written, oral, and poetic narration samples for kids age 12 and up, as well as samples for younger kids. (From vol. 3 and vol. 6 of CM's series.) The appendices also include ideas for narration as well as the questions CM used for narration.
Anyway, good stuff to have all in one place.
Thanks for replying, Theresa. I think I'm just going to have to get more creative with my ds. I think mostly what he (still) objects to is the drudgery (?) of "telling back". Whereas if I say, "I noticed you were reading quite a lot of books about the Crusades today. Tell me one thing you learned," or "What part of The Eternal Frontier have you made it to? Oh, megafauna extinctions? Can you tell me how the author presented the arguments as to why the megafauna went extinct in North America? Which does he support? Which do you think is the right one?"... he'll happily discuss. But this is not in a form one could write down exactly.
On the other hand, he read aloud some of his fiction writing today, and I was quite pleased with the quality. So maybe my worrying about the nonfiction writing is all for naught.
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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Erin
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| Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 3:20pm | IP Logged
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Angela
I was thinking about your question yesterday whilst I was hosting a group lesson with my teens, I realised the importance of oral narration. (You had inspired me to resurrect my effort with my olders) After the chapter reading I asked each teen to narrate, dd17 went first and had no problem she is an analytical, logical child by nature. Ds13 was second, he added more to his sister's narration, certainly not as articulate but he managed. Ds15 narration consisted of shrugs, grunts and constant prodding. Argh!! He really struggles I'm not certain if it is ability, but more attitude, he gives up before he leaves the starting gate. Well the result of yesterday's lesson is I am more than ever determined to make this a regular habit.
I've been pondering Classical and Liberal Arts Education and the more I think upon it I can see a connection between the results of these and a CM education is the results of narration. Oral narrating (and written) requires the ability to draw the most important information from the material and relate it in the most succinct manner.
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Erin
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Narration for older kids
