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MWeber
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| Posted: Sept 09 2010 at 7:16am | IP Logged
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I grabbed a copy of The Read-Aloud Handbook at the library, and it has given me much to think about. Just about every experienced homeschooler (not all, however!) say to not push early reading. Just read, read, read to your child. I am a big reader myself, and my kids often see me reading. I also have picture books everywhere, including mounds of them from the library. I take them every week, and they get beyond excited over the choices. I also have been borrowing a lot of audio books, usually the ones that go along with picture books that we can look at together while listening. Since I don't have any older kids to teach, I have all day to spend reading to them if they so choose.
That being said, earlier this year, my son expressed interest in learning to read. At that point, he knew the sounds of letters, how to form most of them, etc. But as you know, blending those sounds into words takes a whole other level of development. He has been slowly catching on, HOWEVER, the spark in learning is quickly being extinguished. At first, I kept telling myself, "if we quit now, he will think that by complaining, he will get what he wants." As little of a deal it was (we have only been spending 10-15 a day, a few days a week), I felt the need to pray about it. Was it my own pride and my excitement in getting the HS'ing ball rolling that insisted on continuing this trek? Was I losing site of just how young he was? Sure, many kids learn to read early, but he is no less of a child b/c of his lack of interest.
I feel a weight lifted off my shoulders now, and I suddenly feel a bit silly for obsessing over this whole matter. I guess I don't really have a point in this post except to ask for your experiences. Whether you are in the "better late than early" camp or your kids learned to read at an early age, how did that all affect them later down the road? Did the early readers get burnt out like many people claim they would? Was it really much easier to teach an older child to read b/c of their maturity level and willingness to learn? I know every child is different, but I just wanted to hear your thoughts.  Thanks!
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Michele
Mom to ds (2006), dd (^2007^), dd (2009), & dd (Dec 2010)
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KauaiCatholic
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| Posted: Sept 09 2010 at 2:16pm | IP Logged
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looking forward to hearing from experienced moms. I'm running into the same thing with my just-turned-5yo DD. when I'm working with her big brother, she's SO EXCITED TO DO SCHOOL!!!! when I start with her, that excitement lasts about 2 minutes. (and I'm trying to stick with games and "fun" learning, too, not just sit-at-the-desk-and-work stuff.)
I don't want to highjack your thread, Michele; just have been wondering this myself. 
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 Viviane
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We can do no great things; only small things with great love. -- Blessed Teresa of Calcutta
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MWeber
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| Posted: Sept 09 2010 at 7:13pm | IP Logged
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Viviane - Definitely not hijacking! Trust me, I appreciate hearing that I'm not alone.
The conclusion I have come to is that "school" may sound like fun, but at this age, they have no clue what 'school' encompasses. Jack may want to learn to read, but he has no idea how much work it involves (albeit, fun work, IMO!).
It seems to me that a lot of moms are opposed to doing any gravy subjects (history, science, geography, etc.) in K, b/c it can be too much. But from my unexperienced point of view, I can't imagine Jack having nearly as much fun if school didn't include science or map work. (I'm not doing any of that this year...mainly talking about when he turns 5.) He's so much more interested in insects, levers and pulleys, and maps than in spelling rules!. 
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Michele
Mom to ds (2006), dd (^2007^), dd (2009), & dd (Dec 2010)
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Willa
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| Posted: Sept 09 2010 at 11:59pm | IP Logged
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Charlotte Mason says that most parents and teachers underestimate how easily a small child will tire out mentally from even small amounts of academic work that seem very easy to older people. Even if the child is motivated and having fun, it can be a wear and tear on their nervous system.
It seems to me that lessons can be fun for young children and that there is nothing wrong with early reading (I have had 2 early readers, 2 average-age and 2 later readers) but if there is complaining and balking that means the lesson should have stopped or changed gears BEFORE the complaining started. Then you avoid the situation where you are deciding whether to force things for character reasons or stop for learning-effectiveness reasons. I learned that the hard way and it doesn't apply so much to older children, but with young children I think it's important not to let academics become stressful.
I don't think your child will get burned out on reading -- not with good role models who love to read and give him lots of books. But he COULD get burned out on seatwork, and that could make things harder than they need to be in the later years.
Ruth Beechick says that children that age learn more from pulleys and insects and that kind of thing than they do from formal lessons at an early age. This would make sense because secondary things like academic literacy skills are firmly based on primary things like experience, thinking and talking/listening.
If you don't want to lose your hsing momentum perhaps you could focus on providing a rich learning environment for him -- opportunities to investigate, talk, listen to wonderful books, follow interests, use good art materials, etc? Personally I wish I had done more of that sort of thing when I first started homeschooling.
Also there are language games you can play that lay the groundwork for reading -- rhyming games, "I Spy", letting the child dictate stories or journal entries to you. Or if you want to have some phonics exposure in a lowkey environment, my boys like things like Phonics Bingo where there's a game format.
Hope something here helps!
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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MWeber
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| Posted: Sept 10 2010 at 7:04am | IP Logged
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Willa - your post is most helpful. Thank you! I'm guessing it becomes a natural transition, but when do you start incorporating more seat work? I think with a lot of aspects of parenting, I have higher expectations with my oldest b/c I'm still trying to figure out what is appropriate WRT his development, especially since he has always been "advanced" (I hate that word. What I mean is he was an early talker, walker...very logical and catches on to concepts very quickly, etc. Basically, he looks and often acts like a 6 yo!). I didn't want to give in to his complaining and fussing b/c I thought that would teach him that whining = getting what he wants. But now I understand that my expectation has been too high. He will figure out the challenges of school soon enough, LOL. I can encourage less whining in other aspects of life, like when he doesn't want to eat the "green food" at dinner. 
He does really enjoy games, crafts and such. I have McRuffy Phonics K, which involves a lot of folder games, cutting and pasting, etc. So I will just casually incorporate those into our play and leave the rest out until he's ready.
Thanks again!
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Michele
Mom to ds (2006), dd (^2007^), dd (2009), & dd (Dec 2010)
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Willa
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| Posted: Sept 10 2010 at 9:11am | IP Logged
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Hi Michele,
Have you read the book Character Building by David Isaacs? Laura Berquist writes about it here.
Isaacs says that the age to build industry, fortitude and perseverance is about 8 to 12. That stuck with me because it is about the age when I see my kids take an intellectual step forward. They are more able to tackle abstract reasoning and read chapter books and things that don't have illustrations for context. That is also usually the age when most "later readers" start pulling it together and becoming fluent. Teachers notice this too -- that is the age when more serious non-fictional "content" reading becomes a part of the classroom.
That doesn't mean your child won't learn to read sooner. My youngest was only 3 when he started picking out words and by 5 he could read Tintin comics and easy readers. At six he read Narnia and Winnie-the-Pooh and things like that. I did not push him at all, though. He loved for me to point with my finger what I was reading to him and because he was so visual, he memorized a lot of basic words and then was able to decode the rest from context.
I think that lots of experience listening to read-alouds helped him get patterns of literate language into his head.
I believe that this mental immersion into language patterns is actually more important than phonetic decoding skills. Those decoding skills usually come when the child is ready, but the language exposure is what helps the child make intelligent sense at what he is seeing on the page. He starts understanding patterns of sentence structure and making natural "predictions" about where the story is going to go.
I think you can do some seatwork before age 8 -- Charlotte Mason recommends starting a bit of handwriting and arithmetic practice at about age 6 -- and for that early exposure to sit-down work, you focus on habits of attention and perfection, and use Very Short Lessons. Then as the child is successful doing a very little bit of work, very gradually increase time.
I do history and science with my 7 year old. I notice that though he is very bright, if we focus too long (even if he is enjoying himself) he feels the strain and sometimes gets silly and wild after the lesson is over. It's a temptation for me to go with his intellectual level and forget his emotional level which is still a rather young seven. Since your child is your first it is probably even harder to stop before the child shows the stress, but I do think it's a good homeschooling skill to learn [; -)].
If you notice your child feeling the strain of even fun, light academics, you can do something Charlotte Mason recommended and vary the rhythm -- switch to something like calisthenics or go outdoors for some unstructured play time, or sit down with some great books to read aloud with a snack, or whatever. That's a good habit for a gifted child to form -- learning to notice his own stress or discomfort or overload signals and respond with a change of pace. So this is a kind of character building even though we don't usually think of it that way.
Sorry this is so long! You are very blessed to be just starting off on the homeschooling journey! It is fascinating to work with little children and see them develop in their own unique ways! 
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Willa
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Take Up and Read
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Grace&Chaos
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| Posted: Sept 10 2010 at 10:28am | IP Logged
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Willa, I've really enjoyed reading your posts. I have four boys age 5 and younger. I can see some of the things you've mentioned with them vs. my older two girls. My soon to be four year old has no interest in sitting down at all. I've been using our chalkboard door to have him practice pencil holding or drawing shapes. He's enjoyed that so much more. I also have him running around the house looking for "same" and "different". For numbers we've been playing with bean bags or counting his favorite items. You get the picture. I love the the wisdom I'm getting on this forum.
Thanks!
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Jenny
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JaysFamily
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| Posted: Sept 10 2010 at 10:43am | IP Logged
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Hi Michele! It's me, from down the street!
I have some books on CM and Montessori if you think those would be a better fit for this stage. We don't use all our Montessori things at the same time (just not enough room), so you are welcome to borrow some if you want to. We are just focusing on science and crafts right now. S only likes workbooks once a month. He's picking up far more about the faith from just saying our prayers at night, and from skimming through St. Joseph picture books, Manners in God's House, and Little Acts of Grace than he did with the Who Am I series, so I've set that aside for now as well. I'm keeping the crafts just secular for now, but will include some faith crafts again near All Saints Day. He just wasn't making the connection between the lessons, the crafts, and the faith. He's picking up on some of it now though, since we just read and pray a little at bedtime.
The approach I'm using now is to replace "school" with playing/exploring. We do puzzles, read, play, work on the alphabet now only when he initiates it (about every other month), work on counting things such as toys when it's time to pick up, he helps with chores, we play outside and he asks a bunch of question that I just don't always have the answers for. He's definitely more interested in science...leaves, seasons, bugs, building his own bird nests, etc. As long as he's learning something I'm happy. However, your son is more advanced than mine. S is easily intimidated and won't even practice or try something until he's sure he already knows how to do it first. If he gets burned out, he won't even attempt to learn a thing, and then we're both frustrated. I have no choice but to let him lead when it comes to early reading skills right now.
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Jaysfamily
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JodieLyn
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My daughter was older.. and couldn't learn to read with phonics programs.. we tried.. she wanted to try.. we could not get it to work no matter what we did she couldn't blend sounds.
But my point in saying this is.. that when we switched to a sight reading only method.. her frustration level was very high. So we'd work until she got a bit frustrated and then stop. We literally would work for under a minute at first. I set up what we were doing.. flash cards mainly to help limit the frustration. Just as an aside.. she'd look at the word and read it if she knew it.. got one chance to sound it out.. then I'd read it and she'd read it and it would go to the bottom of the pile.. if she read it or sounded it out right away then she'd get to hold the card until we were done.
But back to my point.. a child that's working past the point of being tired/frustrated isn't really learning at all. We would do these flash cards and when we started.. it was really honestly less than a minute.. 3-5 words depending on the words.. the second she started guessing without trying to read.. we were done.. happily done.. ok let's put this away and we'll do more later. She was older and she would come to me because she wanted to read so much.. so we'd do this probably 3-4 times a day. But then as she found that she was successful every time.. her desire to keep trying to keep working increased.. she was building stamina and we could sit for 5 minutes and then longer and longer. But we always worked to her limits..
As I said she was older.. she went in one year from not reading at all to reading at grade level with this. But the big thing was not to keep going once her limit was hit.. come back to it.. they'll retain it because you stop before the frustration or tiredness hits.. and as they're successful.. they do want to keep doing it more.. just like the child who's won a game wants to play it again and again as long as they're winning. 
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MWeber
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| Posted: Sept 10 2010 at 3:59pm | IP Logged
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Stephanie - I have been thinking about you and wondering how you have been. See, this would be totally different if my son showed no interest. Then I would just drop it, LOL! But it's like he's teasing me, going back and forth. I laughed when you said that S is interested in the alphabet about every other month. I guess there is just so much out there for them to figure out, that they quickly find something else to explore.
Jodie - I completely understand the guessing part. At that point, it is over. When he sounds out r-a-n correctly, then blends and says "bab!", I don't know whether to cry or laugh my head off. It took me a month or so to realize I needed to just stop the minute I lost him (and end with a smile and an encouraging word...that is key!).
Yesterday, at the pediatrician's office, he saw a young boy with a chapter book, sounding out the words with his mom. He said "Hey, look. That boy's reading!" I said "Do you want to learn to read like that?" "No," was his simple reply. LOL, well there's my answer.
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Michele
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JaysFamily
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| Posted: Sept 10 2010 at 4:41pm | IP Logged
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S's pattern seems to be that he'll be really interested in something, and he'll learn a lot. Then, he'll lost interest for awhile and will forget about 25-50% of what he learned the last round, but the rest of it sticks. Still, when he takes interest again, he knows more than the last time. That seems to be normal for this age. I think it just takes him awhile to really absorb the information, so his learning pattern tends to be very slow, but since he's learning about so many other things too, overall it's enough for him. At almost 4, he still gets all his letter sounds mixed up, and still mixes up b,d,p, and q. Lately, he's been bringing me random combinations of tracks and has been asking what letters they are. He also points out letters in abstract places, such as in trees, swing sets, sticks, toys, etc. He has an insanely vivid imagination that keeps me on my toes!
Something else I wanted to suggest is Starfall and Progressive Phonics online. We let our son play around those sites some, and it seems to stimulate his appetite to learn more for the next couple of weeks when we do. Then, he's also learning computer skills at the same time. They don't replace teaching and learning from real books, but are a nice supplement, especially on days when he's been a pickle and I need a few moments of peace! 
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Jaysfamily
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herdingkittens
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| Posted: Oct 15 2010 at 8:50am | IP Logged
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My oldest (8) was an early reader and is still a huge bookworm. My son was up and running right when he turned 5 and is still enjoying reading. I am working with my 3rd now, who just turned 5 who is reading, but we are moving at a slower pace with her.
My point is, they read early, and still love reading, so I don't think that you can ruin a child's reading interest by teaching too early. That being said, they all wanted to learn when we started out and I was low key about it. we used 100 EZ Lessons, which I was advised by another HSer that we needed to do it 6 days a week consistently. But we used it just regularly and added in real books at certain points to keep things from getting stale. Also, sometimes we just took breaks from it until we were ready again. Ahhhh, one of the beautiful aspects of HSing! 
Keep it enjoyable for the both of you. We have loved using that book and making a game of it. I also loved supplementing with BOB books and CHC's little Little Stories for Little Folks. HTHs!
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Another post about teaching reading :)
