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Martha
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| Posted: July 12 2007 at 9:29am | IP Logged
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We just started this with my 7 yr old son Monday. I have a question about procedure for copying and dictation. For example lesson 2 is what we are working on.
I dictate to him.
Him writes.
I kindly go over his errors. (spelling, capitals, punctuation, sloppy writing)
Then he copies lines himself.
That is what I did.
However, it doesn't seem correct?
He handled things well, but I could tell he was rather crestfallen at all the corrections. And I didn't even have him correct it.
Are they supposed to correct as they go a sentence at a time, go back and redo when completely done, am I supposed to correct them as they write it and have them erase and rewrite correctly as they make the mistake?
He is capable of this work and excited to use the book. I'd like to not mess that up by implementing it wrong! 
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Martha
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Tami
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| Posted: July 12 2007 at 9:47am | IP Logged
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Martha, at that young age, and for several years thereafter, I would recommend a studied dictation, whereby you go over the entire passage with him ahead of time. You can point out punctuation, go over spelling of any new/unfamiliar words to him, etc.
That should bring him more success.
But if his errors are numerous even at that, perhaps shorten the dictation to only a line, or so. Then he can finish it as copywork.
Just my .02.
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Tami
When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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Martha
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| Posted: July 12 2007 at 10:43am | IP Logged
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Thank you! I already decided to only do one or two sentences at a time, but the studied dictation sounds like the missing key.
On the copywork part - do we correct that? For example, do you make them rewrite if it's messy, has misspelling, or missing words? iow, do we work on that one sentence at a time until it's right?
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Martha
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Tami
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| Posted: July 12 2007 at 11:55am | IP Logged
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Why are there mistakes in the copywork? Do you think it's fatigue, or inattention?
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Tami
When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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Martha
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| Posted: July 12 2007 at 12:09pm | IP Logged
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Tami wrote:
Why are there mistakes in the copywork? Do you think it's fatigue, or inattention?
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I think it's lack of attention to the details. Or maybe over-focus on other details? Such as working to make it extra neat, but then not getting the actual content quite right.
I think he may not be quite ready for dictation at all? So I've decided to focus on copywork, then transition to dictation as the copywork improves.
So how do I get him to notice those details without losing the joy of the lesson? Because he IS excited about his school work and wants to make his work neat and well done.
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Tami
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| Posted: July 12 2007 at 1:09pm | IP Logged
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Martha wrote:
Tami wrote:
Why are there mistakes in the copywork? Do you think it's fatigue, or inattention?
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I think he may not be quite ready for dictation at all? So I've decided to focus on copywork, then transition to dictation as the copywork improves.
So how do I get him to notice those details without losing the joy of the lesson? Because he IS excited about his school work and wants to make his work neat and well done. |
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Well, that's where I was headed with this. 
I think he'll notice the details if you reduce the amount of text that he's copying, and go over it with him carefully before he starts, sort of a 'studied copywork.' One line of copywork, reproduced every day for a week could work; you could change the text after he's accomplished his copying w/o errors before the week is up. And the text can be simple: "The Lord is kind and merciful." for example.
And on subsequent days, before he begins, recall with him where he needs to focus his attention, based on what the errors were before.
Eventually, at the end of the week, this copywork could become his dicatation lesson. But that could take some time to get to, maybe even another year.
And I don't think he'll lose his joy if you're excited about how well he's done each day. 
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God bless,
Tami
When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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margot helene
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| Posted: July 14 2007 at 9:55pm | IP Logged
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Hi Martha,
Keep in mind that if you are starting in 2nd grade, PLL is a two-year program. You do not have to do a lesson a day.
Also, if he's never done dictation before, the first dictation piece in PLL is way too long. I would do the studied dictation as Tami suggests, but do it one sentence at a time. First day read the first sentence out loud, talk about the words and then let him copy it. Second day read it again and try it from dictation without looking. I always have my kids proofread their own sentences, checking the book to their work. (This is good for them on several levels.) They revise them right then if there are mistakes. I don't say a word about what they have done wrong; they find it and fix it. I also do not point out "sloppy writing" in these first attempts. (If there is a letter upside down or backward, I point it out the next day before we start. "Here, let's read what you wrote yesterday. When you write this today remember to make the letter the right direction. Let's practice it one time.") The skill here is to learn to do dictation and that is what we focus on. Third day, dictate it again and he should have it.
Add one sentence every few days (so they start from the beginning with sentences they have already mastered and add one new one at a time - does that make sense, not sure I'm explaining that well.)
Since this is tedious work, add some oral language time, maybe just talking about a picture in a book or magazine. Or let him illustrate the dictated piece.
You may want to only use the first paragraph of that first piece; you'll be able to tell if he is tired of it and needs to move on. To conquer it is a great feeling, though!
Please keep posting to say how it's going!!
God bless
Margot
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Martha
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| Posted: July 15 2007 at 9:15am | IP Logged
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Margot!
Thank you for those little details that make the difference. It's so helpful. For people new to this, when reading "narrate" or "dictate" - it sounds simple enough, but the exact details of how to do it are very vague at times.
He isn't in 2nd grade, he's actually advanced to 3rd in all subjects. However, his fine motor skills are not the same level as his academics. I had already decided to leave the neatness focus in his cursive lessons for now and focus on correctness in PLL.
I love the idea of adding 1 sentence after a sentence is mastered until the entire lesson is mastered. I understood exactly what you were saying. At least I think I do.
I have no intention of forcing a lesson a day. The goal is mastery, not to "just get it done", so I'm fine with taking as long as it takes. 
In addition to PLL, he has:
*poetry and catechism to memorize (for those oral skills you mention)
*we read history and science (he is read to, reads to a younger sibling, or reads to himself and narrates back to me - either oral or illustrated, usually a bit of both)
*MCP math C
*Art is included in above subjects
*Spanish
*Cursive First
All that to say, the only subject he has to do much writing in at this time is PLL and Cursive First, so I don't think he's getting writer's cramp. 
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Martha
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margot helene
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| Posted: July 15 2007 at 2:45pm | IP Logged
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Martha wrote:
* so I don't think he's getting writer's cramp. |
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 Mine would probably complain they were anyway!
Sounds like a sweet program for him!
Margot
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: ? PLL hillside version
