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Erin
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| Posted: March 07 2007 at 6:04am | IP Logged
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A IRL friend has just left Life Science with Real Books with me to puruse and it looks just me  The guideuses non-fiction, living books and biographies. It is big on notebooking and gives you experiements, vocabulary and discovery questions. I am hoping this will finally get me going. I thought I could even adapt it for my highschooler giving her further studies.
As my friend has only just received her copy I would love to hear from anyone who has used the guide for some time. what did you think of it?
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Erin
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MacBeth
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Erin, I looked at the sample unit, and it seems nice enough, but very protestant to me. If you feel that you can Catholicize it, the guide might be useful. You'd have to check the bible verses, for instance, and possibly make corrections. The author refers to "St. Paul" as simply "Paul" (that would be very confusing in my house  ). The unit I looked at (mammals; it's on the website) is also heavily anti-evolutionary. I know this is a matter where we are free to differ, but even so, the fundamentalist view of evolution may not always be in line with Catholic teaching. All her creation-science book recommendations are written from a protestant POV, and those that I have read often make the same mistakes themselves that the authors accuse the evolutionary scientists of making. Further, the author throws out a good deal of opinion ("Most everyone knows...") without backing her opinions up with facts or examples. It made me squirm. 
That is not to say the guide would not be useful. I think her choice of books, while different from mine, is OK. I do think there are better choices (and that is a matter of opinion  ), and there are many choices that are more "living" than her list.
But if you've seen it, would you tell us what you like most about it? Do you like the unit format? The books? The layout? Would a more Catholic version of this book be of value?
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teachingmyown
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MacBeth wrote:
But if you've seen it, would you tell us what you like most about it? Do you like the unit format? The books? The layout? Would a more Catholic version of this book be of value? |
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MacBeth, are you offering to write a Catholic one for us?!  I have said for years, "If I could just get MacBeth to teach my kids science...."
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MacBeth
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teachingmyown wrote:
MacBeth, are you offering to write a Catholic one for us?! I have said for years, "If I could just get MacBeth to teach my kids science...." |
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I have a good start, but it is very hard to find the time to put a book like that together. Sometimes a book will go OOP before I finish a unit. I'm thinking of maybe putting together an expanded version of Wild Monthly for publishing. I'd love to know if there would be interest, but this is Erin's thread  . If anyone is interested in discussing this, you cold pm me or email me directly with suggestions.
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Dawn
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MacBeth wrote:
| I'd love to know if there would be interest |
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YUP!
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MaryM
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| Posted: March 07 2007 at 1:44pm | IP Logged
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Erin wrote:
| A IRL friend has just left Life Science with Real Books with me to puruse and it looks just me The guideuses non-fiction, living books and biographies. It is big on notebooking and gives you experiements, vocabulary and discovery questions. I am hoping this will finally get me going. |
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I have not seen or used it, but it does look interesting. I fugure anything that gets someone going is a good thing.
MacBeth wrote:
| I'm thinking of maybe putting together an expanded version of Wild Monthly for publishing. |
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That is wonderful! I hope it happens. We culd start another thread for suggestions and brainstorming.
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Erin
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| Posted: March 08 2007 at 5:31am | IP Logged
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MacBeth wrote:
| Erin, I looked at the sample unit, and it seems nice enough, but very protestant to me. If you feel that you can Catholicize it, the guide might be useful. |
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Macbeth,
I haven't really perceived the book to be overly Protestant.
Macbeth wrote:
| You'd have to check the bible verses, for instance, and possibly make corrections. The author refers to "St. Paul" as simply "Paul" (that would be very confusing in my house ) |
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I can see what you mean about the Bible quotes, it would irritate me to, but to be really honest I didn't even pay any attention to the Bible quotes, I guess I do see putting quotes as a little forced and don't really see them as applicable to the unit. Hence I didn't even glance at them till you pointed them out.
MacBeth wrote:
| The unit I looked at (mammals; it's on the website) is also heavily anti-evolutionary. I know this is a matter where we are free to differ, but even so, the fundamentalist view of evolution may not always be in line with Catholic teaching.All her creation-science book recommendations are written from a protestant POV, and those that I have read often make the same mistakes themselves that the authors accuse the evolutionary scientists of making. |
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Well we hold to a Creation viewpoint ourselves so it suits me that it is from a Creation viewpoint however I do acknowledge what you say about making the same mistakes themselves that evolutionists do and I have been giving serious thought to our dc doing further deep study in this area as they are older. So that they are well grounded in both and can see for themselves. This guide is written for grades 1-8.
I am very intrigued by your comment regards fundamentalist view not in line with Catholic teaching and would love to know more. Perhaps a whole new thread. I would never want to be in error.
Macbeth wrote:
| Further, the author throws out a good deal of opinion ("Most everyone knows...") without backing her opinions up with facts or examples. It made me squirm. |
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Not being a scientific bent myself I didn't pick this up.
Macbeth wrote:
| That is not to say the guide would not be useful. I think her choice of books, while different from mine, is OK. I do think there are better choices (and that is a matter of opinion ), and there are many choices that are more "living" than her list. |
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This is interesting, I wondered about comparing her list to yours when reading. One thing I did like about Susan Marra's list was that I did actually have a few of her books already, hence less expenditure. And I'm afraid to say I have none of your books and our library only has one from your list 
Macbeth wrote:
| But if you've seen it, would you tell us what you like most about it? Do you like the unit format? The books? The layout? Would a more Catholic version of this book be of value? |
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Certainly more Catholic versions are always of value, the thing is the hs market is flooded with Protestant material and hardly any Catholic material.
What do I like about it the most? Well I guess it just seemed like myway of hsing. The unit was not too rigid (I do get tired of re-inventing the wheel all the time) It was designed to use with non-fiction and living books. It was designed for mums like me tired of re-inventing the wheel or who have lots of books hanging around the home but not set goals so therefore nothing is achieved. Wel that is me also It also was designed for the children to use with notebooking which is also the way we like to hs. Also it was very clear I didn't have to do it ALL, just what we wanted.
I also liked the unit layout,
- Bible Verse,
-Did you know questions, just a few facts, basic but a starting point. I am back at that stage, remember also that it is for primary children.
-Creation vs. Evolution Topics
-Discovery Questions. Now this is the part that really appealed to me. I need this. And often for me once I start thinking this way I can then start adapting to further areas. But I do need to START. These questions are based on the recommended reading, mostly DK books(again a big point because I already have them) It is recomended to discuss orally with younger children and older ones can write into their notebooks.
-Vocabulary Words. I liked this idea and again a good notebook page.
-Writing and Discussion. This is to assign work for the older child. Here my brain was going thinking how I could add on and adapt for my 13 year old as well.
-Sketches, Diagrams and Colouring Books. I like being told what to diagram etc. I know I could think of these things if I bothered and I'm sure I could eventually but I need help to start.
-Experiements and Activities. I was very excited to find this section
So I did like the unit format, definetly. I liked the choice of books because I already had many, and the author was very clear that you could use other books it didn't have to be those. The layout was easy to follow. It certainly isn;t an indepth study it is a nice start. Now perhaps you could write a more indepth study for older students or a mulit-level unit for families like myself with highschoolers down to pre-schoolers.
Macbeth wrote:
| I'm thinking of maybe putting together an expanded version of Wild Monthly for publishing. I'd love to know if there would be interest, but this is Erin's thread . If anyone is interested in discussing this, you cold pm me or email me directly with suggestions. |
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Well hijack the thread away please
One question regards the Wild Monthly from me over here which would also be relevant for all mums not in America. How American would it be? Often I am disappointed because great books are different to our flora and fauna, or constellations, or seasons etc. This is often the problem here for me to buy books, units, programs etc from o/s is that it is not always transferable.
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MacBeth
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| Posted: March 08 2007 at 11:13am | IP Logged
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Erin wrote:
What do I like about it the most? Well I guess it just seemed like myway of hsing. The unit was not too rigid (I do get tired of re-inventing the wheel all the time) It was designed to use with non-fiction and living books. It was designed for mums like me tired of re-inventing the wheel or who have lots of books hanging around the home but not set goals so therefore nothing is achieved. Wel that is me also It also was designed for the children to use with notebooking which is also the way we like to hs. Also it was very clear I didn't have to do it ALL, just what we wanted.
I also liked the unit layout,
- Bible Verse,
-Did you know questions, just a few facts, basic but a starting point. I am back at that stage, remember also that it is for primary children.
-Creation vs. Evolution Topics
-Discovery Questions. Now this is the part that really appealed to me. I need this. And often for me once I start thinking this way I can then start adapting to further areas. But I do need to START. These questions are based on the recommended reading, mostly DK books(again a big point because I already have them) It is recomended to discuss orally with younger children and older ones can write into their notebooks.
-Vocabulary Words. I liked this idea and again a good notebook page.
-Writing and Discussion. This is to assign work for the older child. Here my brain was going thinking how I could add on and adapt for my 13 year old as well.
-Sketches, Diagrams and Colouring Books. I like being told what to diagram etc. I know I could think of these things if I bothered and I'm sure I could eventually but I need help to start.
-Experiements and Activities. I was very excited to find this section
So I did like the unit format, definetly. I liked the choice of books because I already had many, and the author was very clear that you could use other books it didn't have to be those. The layout was easy to follow. It certainly isn;t an indepth study it is a nice start. Now perhaps you could write a more indepth study for older students or a mulit-level unit for families like myself with highschoolers down to pre-schoolers.
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I was wondering about the "value" of the bible verses. Are they relevant to the topic? Do you use them for copywork, or just discussion? I was wondering if they were put in just for "Christianizing" the topic. I fear that sometimes tossing in a bible verse in a unit becomes more decoration than enhancement. Thoughts?
Is the guide Australian? I wasn't sure from the unit, but I did wonder, especially in a mammals unit, if the marsupials and monotremes were well-covered. That would be an issue for you, for sure, though I think I would cover it in any work I put together. I am especially fond of echidnas. I did not think that any of the recommended books was particularly Australian, but I really just glanced.
I appreciate that it fits your style and that it would preclude reinventing the wheel.
Is the vocabulary listed separately, so that you can just copy the list? And would you say the vocab was based on the books that the author recommends?
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MacBeth in NY
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Erin
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| Posted: March 08 2007 at 7:26pm | IP Logged
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MacBeth,
Dh was asleep last night whilst I typed so I only got to share with him this morning your thoughts. Dh has read the book more than I have (only because every time I have gone to pick it up he has had it)
He concurred with your thoughts on simplicity. He said it is indeed very basic written in layman's terms. The 'Did you Know' questions are intersting facts but not solid ones. It is intended to be that way the author has said to spark an interest.
He liked it because it was laid out in point form, I liked that sytle also it was easy to follow.
I probably should give you some of our 'science' history as it may help you when writting you book/magazine (there it is official now ) I had a very poor science education from boring dry texts, you know the education where the teacher says, "now students open your texts to page.. and copy it out"  Therefore my enthusiasm for science was never kindled, nor did I develop a questing mind. Dh on the other hand had excellent teachers who rejected textbooks because they were dry, dull or simply silly. They were men who taught straight from the heart and obviously with great knowledge. Therefore dh has a great love and knowledge of science. He has read science encylopedias for fun!! several times as a child.
Consequently both of us are opposed to science textbooks from differing experiences. So far our dc's science has consisted of magic school bus and Mythbusters. And subscriptions to 'Scientriffic'. They do have enquiring minds and and interest in the area.
So the idea of this book was to help 'me' get started in a more formal manner with our primary aged dc as we have done now formal work prior. In regards to our highschooler I poured over your list with our library catalogue in hand to find one book So I ended up going in and perusing the shelves for books that would interest her. Dd then culled down my pile and kept what interested her, she has enjoyed reading them but has not started on notebooking her readings. Here I have been too open ended, I needed to give her goals but didn't know how to go about that. If you could address that in your book I would LOVE it. So I have been thinking of using the Life Science book to jump start me also for her. ie. giving her a list of vocab words to notebook and some discussion questions. I guess it has given me confidence as to direction, but I digress because the book is not really for her.
The guide only covers biology. So I wouldn't recommend it to anyone looking for the other topics in science. It is basic in that way too.
MacBeth wrote:
I was wondering about the "value" of the bible verses. Are they relevant to the topic? Do you use them for copywork, or just discussion? I was wondering if they were put in just for "Christianizing" the topic. I fear that sometimes tossing in a bible verse in a unit becomes more decoration than enhancement. Thoughts? |
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I defiently concur that the Bible quotes were just put in to Christianise the book. I didn't find them relevant I thought they were rather forced. I wouldn't point it out to the children.
Macbeth wrote:
| Is the guide Australian? I wasn't sure from the unit, but I did wonder, especially in a mammals unit, if the marsupials and monotremes were well-covered. That would be an issue for you, for sure, though I think I would cover it in any work I put together. I am especially fond of echidnas. I did not think that any of the recommended books was particularly Australian, but I really just glanced. |
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No none of the books are Australian, but the main books are DK science and nature encyclopedias which are English published and it is written in such a way that I feel confident enough to use other books if I don't have ones they recommend.
MacBeth wrote:
| Is the vocabulary listed separately, so that you can just copy the list? And would you say the vocab was based on the books that the author recommends? |
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The vocab list isn't listed separately, it is broken up into the different sub-topics. Using the DK encyclopedias the dc would easily find the defintitions for the vocab words.
Can I ask what age you were thinking of targeting with your book/magazine?
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Erin
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4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: Life Science with Real Books- Susan Marra
