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Becky Parker
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I'm feeling the need to do a better job with Science here. My oldest ds attends the Catholic Highschool and has been involved with the Science Olympiad (which apparently is a big deal in Michigan but not all states have them?) Anyway, on the way home from the banquet last night he said "science is the one thing that I didn't get enough of while homeschooling. I didn't even know I liked chemistry until I started at the highschool". So of course, I felt like a total failure.   Then that started a big conversation with my husband about how we should beef up our science and how maybe I'm "insecure about teaching science" ?  You can tell the conversation didn't go well. He didn't mean anything by it, he was actually just trying to encourage me to do more in that area, but maybe he's right and that stung a bit.
We do tons of nature study, but for the other sciences, I'm just not very comfortable if I don't have a text to go by. And, I know alot of the physical sciences really can't be learned well with a text.
I've asked about hands on sorts of things before because my 2 younger boys are definitely hands on learners. Maybe this is just another nudge in the direction that I need to go, BEFORE they get to highschool. (Editing to add, this is not to say they will go away to highschool. In fact, it's mostly a 100% decision that we will homeschool highschool for the rest of the kids. But that makes me even more nervous! )
So, any suggestions?
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dakotamidnight
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You might try the series Real Science 4 Kids - they have them for the lower grades, and I know they cover Chemistry, Biology, and Physics. It's a bit pricy IMO but I've heard very good about it.
And the best thing is they are all geared so you can have everyone on the same topic at different levels at the same time.
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CatholicMommy
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I'll share my experience - only at the elementary level right now:
I love science, but I've been at a loss about how to DO it with the kids to assure a solid foundation. I also don't "know" a lot, because I didn't learn it very well through my own educational experiences. I have the Montessori training at both primary and elementary AND I've been reading on these forums since however is listed to the left  and only in the last year have I finally become comfortable enough with science things. (not perfect - just comfortable). I've compared some curricula, pulled ideas, etc.
I think your biggest challenges lie in two areas:
1) putting everything into its big picture place
2) actually DOING the science
Point 1) once science topics are seen in their place in the grand scheme of things, it is easier to delve into an area and "let go" of the worry about the other areas - at least for now - while also allowing for rabbit trails into other areas while studying "just one"
(the Montessori Great Lessons - even when done without any other Montessori - are an excellent way of doing this for most kids)
Point 2) you have to find what works for your family. Is it a curriculum? A guide? A set of science kits?
For us, it was the science kits that were the trick. I can't do the full elementary Montessori science in my home, or even work up to it. We have a tiny 2 bedroom apartment with one small bedroom as the combination Montessori classroom, bedroom and play-area (though most playing happens in the living room anyway).
We have a couple of the Young Scientists kits that go with the Noeo guides - I like the concept of the guides, but I have SO MANY books already yet very very few listed in the guides and constantly substituting was driving me crazy. We then picked up the Magic School Bus science kits.
Coupled with having 1 son who LOVES school and 2 older visiting girls who have school-anemia (but who also crave hands-on learning, in-depth discussion, and the least amount of "workbook" as possible) - and you have the perfect situation for what we've done:
use the science kits as our curriculum.
Whichever box we are working on, I do with all three children. The girls are a bit "old" for them they are still craving more, but it partially fills the void for now. And I have a library in my bedroom with plenty of books for them to do more personal learning.
We'll then supplement with videos, models, etc. Really let them get into it at their own desired depth.
There are topics not covered and we'll find other kits or sets to help us with those (Young Scientists kits, etc). Once we've gone through a fair amount of kits like this, we'll have some supplies on hand leftover from those kits to allow for some generic science experiments books to be utilized.
For middle school, if we've covered all the generic bases, I'll let them choose a topic of study and go from there. I find middle school more of a free-time - if all bases were covered in elementary, let them explore personal interested in middle school - then in high school it becomes more focused on outside requirements.
In high school, when it's more "official" we'll want to use portfolios to assure we're again covering those requirements. Hopefully, by then, they have a fair idea of what they like, don't like, what will be a challenge and what will come easy (and hopefully, they'll be willing to tackle those challenges!)
Edited to add: I just realized that most of what I've written could be applied to many subjects.... hmm....
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Becky Parker
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Thankyou Dakota and Catholic Mommy.
I've looked at Real Science 4 Kids, but the price is intimidating. I wonder how it compares to something like Apologia.
And Catholic Mommy, after reading your post I went on a search for kits. When my ds was younger we did a bug kit that was a huge hit. Everything for him was hands on now that I think of it. Since then we've added a few more kids to the group though and I guess I was feeling overwhelmed.
How long does it usually take you to go through one of the Young Scientist kits? You also mentioned the Magic School Bus kits - do you like one better than the other?
Thanks!
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SeaStar
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Wow- I didn't know there were Magic School bus science kits! This is a find for me... I know my dc will love these. I found them at Rainbow Resources and ordered a couple to try.
Like everyone else, I have plenty of books suggesting activities, but putting it all together is hard for me. I think I am about to start off on a trail of exploring the world of science kits.
Also, science experiments are the first thing to slide at my house on busy days.
I am contemplating having a "science summer" this year... using the kits to do lots of fun experiments. The kids will view this as fun, not school, and it will help fill those long, muggy summer afternoons.
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CatholicMommy
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We've been focusing on the Magic School Bus. With some of them, we can do them in a 3-4 block; others we like to spend more time.
I also prep the kids beforehand by providing books on the topic (none of the kits perfectly "match" a particular MSB book or video, but there are similar enough topics - and this way, the kids' learning expands a bit more) - so I'll provide MSB books as well as other books on the same topic.
We then do the kit; sometimes we break it up into two sessions - sometimes not. We discuss as we go along; sometimes get out books to compare information, etc.
We create a science notebook as we go - each child has a 3-ring binder into which they insert copied forms and blank pages for drawing. The forms contain the scientific method (basic known facts, question, hypothesis, experiment, list of materials, outcome, conclusions, what to do next, that sort of thing) - and one is filled out for almost every experiment we do (not all). The blank pages are for additional notes, drawings, taping things on, etc.
Sometime in that process, we'll also pull related videos if I can easily find them on Netflix or at the library.
And if we have any other additional ideas, we'll throw them in.
The BIG thing is - I don't *stress* about it. I browse for resources - if we have them, great - if we don't, oh well!
We'll start the couple of Young Scientists kits soon - the price is higher for seemingly less so I'm not chomping at the bit.
The MSB kits - cheapest price - CSN - 7 kits and shipping for $90-something dollars. Even Amazon couldn't beat it ;)
So we'll finish up these kits, do the couple of others we have, then I'll draw out from the children where they want to go with it. They are already getting excited about using our science tools gained from the kits to do some of the more generic science experiment books - they just want to do the kits first!
Check out other threads in this forum for links to other kits - there are some others out there that look really, really great! (ie they could be used almost as an entire curriculum) - the price on them for me wasn't going to work until I have enough older children who are really interested (I'm almost there!).
:)
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AtHomeScience
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A couple a things related to what people have written...
Real Science 4 Kids books are available as downloadable eBooks for a lot less money. I don't know the program--do you have to buy the kogs?
NASA Educators has a whole lot of lesson plan packets for all ages and on a wide variety of topics. They have much more for physical sciences than life sciences (of course.)
I really like Super Science Concoctions and Gizmos and Gadgets because they contain short but good descriptions of concepts as well as lots of easy and fun experiments.
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ALmom
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Becky:
Oh how I empathize with your post. In my house, I was the one who took my dh aside and basically told him that our science was abysmal, that I was a failure as a science teacher and that if we wanted our children to have a good foundation, someone other than me would have to teach science or it would have to be self-taught. I just knew my limits and had to face them. I also knew that he has a science background - but between business trips, overtime and such, it isn't like he can actually plan and teach a class. We also have limited funds and cannot delegate every science every year.
My husband thought I was doing a great job. I knew otherwise. We did end up working it out.
Our solution was to really think about the learning style of the children (visual/hands on) which is so not me!!! I can adjust to their style in subjects in which I am interested or have a really solid background. I made great grades in science - just didn't learn anything and I basically hated the subject until recently when one of my children's enthusiasm has rubbed off. I didn't even have the vocab to lead a nature walk. I couldn't seem to get a single experiment to work and normally ended up so frustrated that this impacted the children and their interest and confidence. I didn't have a clue what to do. It was truly too much of a divide for us to arrange our science with me in role of teacher. It was waaay too stressful for me and didn't really help much anyways. Tutors are expensive and not always available when you need them.
Our plan as we eventually hashed it out based on the reality of our resources - mental, talent and monetary and timewise:
1) montessori style 3 part cards in as many areas of science as we could find at an affordable price.
(I had much older children, but I couldn't even help them figure out a field guide because none of us knew the meaning of half the terms used. I'm not a picture learner and just got overwhelmed trying to sort out what was meant by looking at the pictures. I didn't have time to do major research every time there was a question.) I actually printed off a ton of pictures of trees and their names, wildflowers and their names. I wasn't quite sure what this was going to do - but I had it and threw it out there. I would have learned zilch from this. My children, being visual, somehow took off from there and were inspired to dig deeper. They started telling me what was growing in our backyard. I hadn't a clue.
2) posters (school supply store) that summarizes main concepts on an elementary level in whatever fields we were focusing on at the time. (Parts of a tree labeled, etc.) We even got a deck of periodic table elements that pictured the element itself as well as the symbol and such.
3) As many self correcting materials as we could afford or find in science.
4)Experiment kits (we got ours from homescience tools) where they came with some explanations and were designed to be used from about 3rd - high school. This way my highschoolers could read the simple explanations that we missed earlier, my youngers had something on their level and all of them could take it as far as they wanted. And most importantly, everyone here could do these things without my help!!!!
5)Lots of supplies - wires, old parts, electronic kits, rock and mineral samples, scales, lab equipment, dissection tools and a budget to add to the list if the children had specific experiments they designed. We built gradually and as we were able to afford. Some science museums allow teachers to check out equipment.
6)Occassional demonstrations from dad in areas of his interest, a spine that gave ideas (we used the highschoolers text as a guide to topics for experiments, etc.)and plenty of leisure time to Do science.
7) Picture books, elementary books, science references, various texts (we found that while older ones are out of date, they are usually much better organized and written than the newer ones and tend to tell you more). We were not reading them cover to cover and answering questions from them but using them more as a quick look up encyclopedia. We made sure we had books written for folks from very young age (K even) even though we were trying to remediate some highschoolers and do better by the younger folks and only had one child close to K age - everyone else was much older. We also made sure we had books in age levels in between and some books written for levels higher than our children.
8)Organized one room for science (and other self-learning montessorish things). We focus on a few branches at a time and rotate stuff in and out (well sometimes I'm slow at the rotation, but now my children don't need the science room as much - if they need something new, they'll dig through the bookshelves and scrounge through household items). I organize the materials in an attractive and enticing way, and group them with baskets of very, very simple, easy to understand books (usually elementary level but sometimes easier) that explain concepts of the experiments. Initially we required them to chose something from this room whenever they were waiting for me to work with them or I would include pick something from the science shelves to work with for science in their lesson plans.
9) I have experiment books and remain laid back about messes, holes in the front yard and other such. My husband takes things apart with them and tries to fix things and we allow for a great deal of their own exploration. We are happy to take them to home depot for pvc pipe or whatever they need. We try to make sure we have ample budget for some of this - but also require that they begin paying for some of their own materials and learn to be creative and budget.
10) It didn't take too long to realize that they were needing new challenges. As we saw interests develop, we purchased adult, non-textbooky material to take this further. Gifts or special purchases might center around one of these interests especially for the youngest 3 who have all become science fans. I also picked up high school and college texts in the area from library sales. I picked up reference series like Growing with Science at the same place. At the time I was too ignorant to know that the 25 cent textbooks were often outdated and the periodic table has changed since 1960 - but it didn't seem to confuse the children at all and the older texts seem to have more down to earth and graspable explanations.
11) We also provided biographies of scientists and inventors and found that our children liked to try and replicate some of the things they did.
12 Textbooks and plans for high school science - but with all the other resources to provide interest and background. I checked work - mostly putting question marks by anything that wasn't word for word from the AK . These were the cue for my husband to take a look. He could tell with a simple read of the question and answer whether or not they understood things. He wrote good by any of my question marks that were really correct. Then he pulled together a hands on demonstration or had a mini lesson, discussion with the children on any of the things they really didn't get. This was done in a very concrete, connected way. My husband has the knowledge, talent and similar learning style to the children so this was very effective in everything but chemistry. (My husband's field is EE and he just doesn't remember as much of the chemistry and while he can certainly restudy it and eventually figure it out, it just becomes too much for us and it slows the children down and makes a subject a dreaded one).
13) Chemistry, we simply have to save up and get a tutor. I have at least three people to ask and chose from when we get there again. I'm hoping that at least 2 can do this in the same year and we may rearrange sequence to make this happen. A lot depends on how fast the younger boy can manage the math.
Once we did this and came to these decisions, I felt like a 20 ton brick was lifted from my shoulders and I began to be able to focus on what I really do well. I have also been relaxed enough to observe what the children are doing in science and to learn and become excited. Their enthusiasm is rubbing off. I ended up discovering a science fan in our midst - and he has just naturally taken over the science for the youngers. They follow him around and watch, imitate and ask him questions. They are gardening with him, making whatever things he does - and sometimes I do have to step in for safety. The younger children picked up really quickly to just ask their brother - at first they asked me but I always seemed to need to ask this one brother. Now everyone, including my highschoolers, asks him first.
Janet
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JennGM
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Janet, your posts are always chock full and well-thought. Thank you so much!
I'm now entering this thread into My Favorites. Thanks all of you for such great ideas!
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Becky Parker
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I'm still here, reading and thinking as time allows. Thank you everyone for all your helpful replies. Janet, I'm printing yours so I can re-read it without the computer. Thanks for all the time you put into that.
Catholic Mommy, have you noticed that the Magic School Bus kits appeal more to the younger crowd, or would you say they are okay for a 4th grader?
And Kris, that NASA site is cool! Of course my son found the games right away, but I could see using that on a regular basis for various things.
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CatholicMommy
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The MSB kits are appealing for all ages, including me! The question is how much science-background a child has. I am currently using them with 2 4th graders (who are actually 10 and 12 years old) with minimal hands-on science (these girls do gardening and lots of exploring in their local creek, so lots of life science, but that's all).
They LOVE these kits. Their only negative feedback is they wish there were more experiments within each kit (there are 10 with each kit). They are looking forward to doing their own experiments, but since they are "so new" to the experience of having time allotted, they really want things handed to them so to speak.
They also want more background information, but they are receiving that with the other books, videos, etc. And we have lots conversations now about each of the topics and how they relate to our day to day lives and what professional scientists are doing with the information, etc.
In a nutshell, I think they are a great starting point for any elementary aged child - then build from there based on where your child(ren) is/are at with it all. I wouldn't want to start with much more in case it was too much for any particular child; and the price is right for starting with them and building from there (we just LOVE how many test tubes and racks we have now!!!)
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Becky Parker
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Well, I'd just about decided on the MSB kits, then I went searching (a bad habit of mine!) and I'm wondering if anyone has tried the Academy of Science Kits ?
They are considerably more expensive, and I'm wondering why? Better stuff, more experiments? It looks like they can be used for grades 1-8 which sounds good, although I really don't need that much...
Any experience with these kits?
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CatholicMommy
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I heard of the ASK kits on 4real actually.
For me, the decision was about a few things:
1) price (which plays into most of the below)
2) not sure where my children were at (the girls are not my daughters - they are the daughters of the gentleman courting me and their homeschooling has not been as smooth as he would have liked)
3) not sure of their actual interests
4) the direct relationship with some of their favorite books (I don't personally care for "cartoon" illustrations, but I was willing to bend on these ones)
5) because of the girls' dread of anything that could be called "homeschooling" I appreciated that the MSB kits appear young/childish - they are *highly non-threatening*  but they are also rich in their own way and we supplement where we want
6) They are similar enough to the "complete" nature of the ASK kits - in that, you only need water for most experiments - you really don't need much from home (I have a blog post on what is needed from home for each of the kits)
7) I wanted something that seemed light, even if it wasn't, so that we had room to go where we wanted with the work/study.
8) The MSB kits versus the ASK kits versus the Young Scientist Kits versus other kits we were looking at - noone covers everything *I* want. And the MSB kits won't be the only things we do for science over the course of 8 years.
The boxes say 5+; various websites say 1st-6th grade; some say 3rd-5th; some say ages 6-10. It's all over the place.
If you have the money and know your children will love them, go with the ASK kits. To me, they seem more complete curriculum-wise, although I would still insert some MSB or other kits for other topics.
For us, with the not knowing how the children (particularly the girls) would respond, we went with the MSB - when we're done, we'll follow up with the couple of boxes we have from the Young Scientists Club (what NOEO uses).
By next year, if their love/interest continues, and the children have been using the materials from these kits for their own experiments, THEN I think we'll start purchasing ASK kits of interest for birthday gifts and the like. Spread them out a bit more.
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Well....since you're still hunting and narrowing down, Becky...I'll throw one more option at you in the hopes it doesn't overwhelm you with too many choices!!
In the elementary years, I really enjoy using the self-contained kits from Homeschool Science (this site is different from Home Science Tools even though they have a similar name).
The kits are fabulous because absolutely every piece of string, every paper cup, every battery, toothpick, balloon, EVERYTHING needed is included IN THE KIT! And replacement pieces are available as you re-use the kits in later years with other children.
The lessons are included and are written to be self-guided. An older child could be given the lessons and the kit and be off! A younger child will need some help from you. There is a parents guide that comes with the lessons which offers thorough, but easy to understand explanations of concepts, in case the parent is not science-familiar.
There are 2 kits. Each kit contains 3 topics.
Kit 1 contains:
** The Astronomy Adventure
** Discovering Birds
** The Magnetism Adventure
Kit 2 contains:
** Microscopic Explorations
** Discovering Insects
** The Wonders of Light
The company suggests that each kit contains a year's worth of topics, but since we add in living books that coordinate with the topics we usually spend 2 years with a kit. Many of the hands on activities can be done as a group with all of the children.
Hope this doesn't overwhelm or add to the number of choices, but I thought I'd throw it in the mix. 
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Thanks Jennifer. This does give me another option. I did see these when I was looking at the Rainbow site. "Every piece of string, every paper cup, every battery ..." might be just what I need. Okay, so add another one to my pile! This decision is getting more and more difficult. Maybe I'll have to try a couple of different kits to see which works best for us.
Here's another question. My ds going into 4th would really like to study astronomy. All of the kits above seem to have one dealing with astronomy so that doesn't narrow things down at all, but ...
I was planning to get the Apologia "Exploring Creation With Astronomy" text to use as a spine. I know that there are experiments in these books, but I usually fail to do them because I don't have the materials needed. I know, I know, if I gathered everything at the beginning of the year ... But, I have to deal with my weaknesses so a kit sounds better.
So, for those of you who have used these kits, would using the text AND the kit be too much? Or do you think they would compliment one another?
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CatholicMommy
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I would think they would complement each other - since the one contains experiments but doesn't have the materials. You'll have to adapt the experiments/demonstrations a bit, but who doesn't do that anyway
MSB and Young Scientists Club kits don't have *a lot* of background information - enough to have a basic understanding of what is going on, but again, we use lots of videos, other books, etc to help with more background information.
If you're using a text, I think any of the kits would be excellent extensions. But I can't say about the others yet :)
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Becky Parker wrote:
| So, for those of you who have used these kits, would using the text AND the kit be too much? Or do you think they would compliment one another? |
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It could depend on your family, Becky, and the kit you choose. If the kit offers lessons that are fairly comprehensive along with the hands-on activities/experiments you might find yourself or the kids overwhelmed and feeling like they have to rush to get through everything rather than really enjoying themselves and having time to further explore an idea.
We like to do the activity/experiment *exactly as written* ...and then we like going outside the box...outside the kit a little bit. What happens if we do "x"? These are fun and we are able to explore and ask more questions doing this. I like to make sure we feel relaxed enough to pursue some of these questions/explorations.
In addition to the kits, I strew a lot of living science books and include some of these in our read-aloud time. This adds significant meat to the studies.
I don't want to totally sway you from the idea of your spine. (I should mention that I have no experience with the particular text you recommend, so keep that in mind!) It could really be beneficial if you have a real science lover in your midst! Perhaps you could find a REALLY inexpensive copy used...or borrow one for a month or so and give it a test drive. If it's borrowed and doesn't work out, there's no loss. If you bought it cheap and it doesn't work out, you have a reference for your shelf and it's still a win!
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Angel
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Joined: April 22 2006
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| Posted: May 20 2010 at 6:05pm | IP Logged
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I was just looking through the Home Science Tools catalog, and they sell an Apologia astronomy kit specifically geared for the Apologia text.
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: May 21 2010 at 6:39am | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
If the kit offers lessons that are fairly comprehensive along with the hands-on activities/experiments you might find yourself or the kids overwhelmed and feeling like they have to rush to get through everything rather than really enjoying themselves and having time to further explore an idea.
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Yes, Jenn, that is exactly what I'm hoping to avoid. In my post about being pregnant I should have mentioned anxiety about teaching the kids next year. I certainly don't want to make it harder! I was looking at kits in the first place in order to simplify, yet beef up if that makes sense. Thanks for the gentle reminder.
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Becky
Wife to Wes, Mom to 6 wonderful kids on Earth and 4 in Heaven!
Academy Of The Good Shepherd
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: May 21 2010 at 6:42am | IP Logged
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I hadn't thought of that option Angela! I'll have to see how complete those kits are. Does anyone have experience with those? (Boy, there ARE alot of science kits out there!)
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Becky
Wife to Wes, Mom to 6 wonderful kids on Earth and 4 in Heaven!
Academy Of The Good Shepherd
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4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: Beefing up our science
