| Author | |
Angel
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 22 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2293
|
| Posted: Jan 25 2010 at 12:31pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
I'm just wondering if there are any criteria out there beyond what is included in the typical high school textbook, if you're making up your own high school science courses *or* if you're trying to decide what experiences, books, etc. count as high school credit and which don't.
For instance, where is the distinction between middle school science/hs level physical science/ and "I'm going to count this as physics"? Is it a matter of the math involved? Obviously, Saxon Physics is high school level (or AP level, I've heard), but not all actual high school physics courses are that rigorously mathematical. (Mine wasn't.) We did some math and a few experiments. If my 13 yo ds takes apart a printer to note all the pulleys and actual physical "what makes this work" pieces with the aim of putting it back together, and maybe throw in David McCauley's The Way Things Work... I doubt I'd call it physics, but would it be physical science or middle school science? It's far more instructive than what I have seen in the typical textbook.
I'm just trying to puzzle this out because (I think) my dh and I have decided that we should just start counting anything we consider "high school level" at this point, given the non-traditional, somewhat unschooly way we tend to do things; some subjects my ds is unlikely to want to pursue as a year long course, so we want to be able to accrue credit over time.
(Why does it seem like all the difficulties inherent in figuring out high school come from the need to jump through hoops? Anyway.)
I'm a little more comfortable in deciding "hs level" in other subjects, especially since I have noticed the incredibly wide range of what are considered "high school level" books in, say, history, based on perusing Winterpromise and Sonlight lists on one end and Kolbe and CLAA on the other. So I am wondering if other people think that science is similar, OR if there is a more objective set of criteria one might use to judge a science curriculum?
(Theresa, I'm hoping you're settled in Sitka by now and can chime in!  )
__________________
Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LeeAnn
Forum Pro
Joined: May 25 2007
Location: Washington
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 470
|
| Posted: Jan 25 2010 at 1:20pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Angela, I think it is completely dependent on what your post-high school goals are for your child. Are you preparing him to go to university for a science-based field of study? Or to go to a university for studies in humanities where he will only have to fulfill basic math/science requirements? Or not planning on university at all and planning on a career where he will (or won't) need the higher level math on a regular basis?
You're right that there isn't one set standard for what makes "high-school science." Even within a single public high school there are a variety of levels of classes.
Then there's the Robinson Curriculum's standard of science instruction for "high school age"--just use college textbooks and don't start them until they've finished calculus and can do the actual math involved rather than adapted versions usually given to secondary students.
I tend to be very unschooly in regards to science instruction--but then again my oldest is 12, so I can't speak to what I'll feel about that in the high school years.  However, I generally feel my older kids' aptitudes are NOT in math/science so I don't feel obligated to run them through the usual public school science curriculum at home. I think we learn plenty through regular discussion and spurts of interest at home.
__________________
my four children are 17, 15, 11 & 8 - all now attend public school - we read many 4Real recommended books at home
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Angel
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 22 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2293
|
| Posted: Jan 25 2010 at 2:33pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
LeeAnn wrote:
Angela, I think it is completely dependent on what your post-high school goals are for your child. Are you preparing him to go to university for a science-based field of study? Or to go to a university for studies in humanities where he will only have to fulfill basic math/science requirements? Or not planning on university at all and planning on a career where he will (or won't) need the higher level math on a regular basis?
|
|
|
Hmmm. I hadn't considered this, but my ds *may* end up doing something science-y, although right now it doesn't look as if that would be a hard science. (Career goal right now: archaeologist.)
I looked at the Physical Science book that Kolbe uses after I posted this question. (I picked it up used a while back.) This is for 8th/9th grade, hs credit. The section on "Work and Machines" is pathetically short. It seems to be distinguished from lower levels by the addition of math. Kolbe doesn't require a lab for this course, so a student could get high school credit just by reading the text, answering the questions, and getting a decent grade on the test. But I think David McCauley's book goes into more depth (if we're talking about just getting explanations from a book), and of course, there's the hands-on component.
So... still scratching my head a bit...
__________________
Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
AtHomeScience
Forum Pro
Joined: Oct 29 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 154
|
| Posted: Jan 25 2010 at 2:47pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I agree with LeeAnn, with a few more caveats. Many, maybe most, colleges have high school lab science as a requirement to apply--one, maybe two years. While my oldest is only 10, a friend of mine is using CHC's High School of Your Dreams, which is based on hourly record keeping. My local high school requires 3 years of science 5 hours per week.
My point in this is if you are putting in at least 5 hours per week and you at least focus on one area of science for some time--a term, a year, a month, or so, you will likely be covering high school level math.
You can also look at your state or national science standards to get an idea what is being taught.
HTH!
Blessings,
Kris
At Home Science
Science of Relations
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ekbell
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 22 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 747
|
| Posted: Jan 25 2010 at 4:38pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
A guide that I have found very useful has been Science Scope which organizes science topics and subtopics into Primary, Intermediate, Junior High and High School with a checklist at the back of the book. It's a bit like the Science in a Nutshell supplement in CHC's Middle school plans except much more detailed.
The checklist could be used for keeping track of the various subtopics as they are covered (most of How Things Work fits within the Physics subtopics of Forces and Work -pulleys are a subset of Work:Simple Machines:Wheel and Axle).
The book can also be used by an older student as a guide.
My dd is very interested in science and has been since before she could read (there were times where I was asked to read more science books then story books to her). I've used this book and my discussions with her as a way of keeping track of what she knows and if there are any holes in her self education in science.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
|
| Posted: Jan 26 2010 at 6:57am | IP Logged
|
|
|
AtHomeScience wrote:
| My local high school requires 3 years of science 5 hours per week. |
|
|
This can vary, too. One program I am aware of requires either completing a program exactly as written (that someone has determined is high school level), or 80 hrs for a 1 credit course. I think this assumes a well spent 80 hrs, versus the enormous amount of classroom time that is wasted in many traditional schools.
I've often wondered about what makes something high school level, too. I posted once about high school literature after discovering that many respected programs have incredibly varied requirements and book choices. It was difficult to even find similarities across all of the programs.
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: Jan 26 2010 at 1:45pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I think this is a really interesting question. I may come back with some more thoughts, but I'll chime in here with my initial impression.
I think of high school subjects this way--they should contain enough information/analysis that, even if this were the last exposure a student had to the subject, he would have a "functional understanding" of the subject.
For instance, physics.
For many people, the physics they took in high school is the last physics they ever took, even if they went on to college. It needs to be in depth enough so that they have an adequate base of knowledge and understanding of the basic laws of physics (and how they act on us and the world around us)so that they can pull from that base of knowledge when it is needed in life situations or in conversation.
Those with an interest or aptitude will certainly go on to learn more (whether in college or otherwise)and become more fully versed in the subject.
But since we cannot go on to major in *everything*,some things may indeed be left at the high school level, at least for a while.So we need to make sure that the high school level is enough for us to function as literate human beings and informed citizens in regards to that particular subject, so that we can make informed choices and not be led like sheep by manipulative media/advertising. It should be enough to make informed decisions, and not always have to put our trust in experts who may or may not have our best interests at heart.
And finally, we should understand enough to admit when we need to learn more about a subject before opening our mouths and spouting off our opinions. 
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
|
| Posted: Jan 26 2010 at 2:35pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
lapazfarm wrote:
For instance, physics.
For many people, the physics they took in high school is the last physics they ever took, even if they went on to college. It needs to be in depth enough so that they have an adequate base of knowledge and understanding of the basic laws of physics (and how they act on us and the world around us)so that they can pull from that base of knowledge when it is needed in life situations or in conversation.
Those with an interest or aptitude will certainly go on to learn more (whether in college or otherwise)and become more fully versed in the subject.
But since we cannot go on to major in *everything*,some things may indeed be left at the high school level, at least for a while.So we need to make sure that the high school level is enough for us to function as literate human beings and informed citizens in regards to that particular subject, so that we can make informed choices and not be led like sheep by manipulative media/advertising. It should be enough to make informed decisions, and not always have to put our trust in experts who may or may not have our best interests at heart.
And finally, we should understand enough to admit when we need to learn more about a subject before opening our mouths and spouting off our opinions. |
|
|
I understand your point and agree, particularly when it comes to subjects that will touch a person's life on a daily basis (language and communication skills, basic math skills, etc)...but how does one determine this type of information when the topic is physics, or any subject for that matter, that doesn't exactly come up in regular conversation unless it is one's field of work?
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ekbell
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 22 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 747
|
| Posted: Jan 26 2010 at 4:57pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I understand your point and agree, particularly when it comes to subjects that will touch a person's life on a daily basis (language and communication skills, basic math skills, etc)...but how does one determine this type of information when the topic is physics, or any subject for that matter, that doesn't exactly come up in regular conversation unless it is one's field of work? [/QUOTE]
My first thought (having listened to my husband's frustration at the foolishness of people) is that it is a good idea to know enough to understand why it's impossible to have more energy come out of a machine then went in. Why there will always be some energy lost to heat whenever energy is converted from one form to another. (or in other words it is good to understand at least the Second law of thermodynamics)
Basically it's a good idea to know enough to be able to spot the most obvious scam artists and/or cranks.
The essence of the laws of Thermodynamics
Zeroth rule:There is a game
First rule: You can't win
Second Rule:You can't break even
Third Rule: You can't quit playing
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: What is "high school level" science?
