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KackyK
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| Posted: Sept 13 2007 at 9:30pm | IP Logged
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Has anyone ever heard of this? Can't tell if they allow homeschoolers to borrow.
Anyone have any thoughts on this one???
My thing is...I don't think I'm against dissection. So I sort of feel guilty using their materials. To me I think it would be a great intro before dissecting a real frog, or what have you. But obviously this company would disagree!
Am I sick or what??? Have others done dissections...real or model? How has it gone? Is it way too  ? Any species better for seeing things clearly than others?
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KackyK
Mom to 8 - 3 dd, 5ds & 4 babes in heaven
Beginning With the Assumption
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: Sept 14 2007 at 7:05am | IP Logged
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I like the idea. As the mother of several squeamish and/or morally outraged daughters, I am always on the lookout for ways to do traditional biology while avoiding dissection. Thanks for sharing this great resource! (A couple of my daughters, my son, and I have no problem going at it tooth and nail - more like scalpel and probe - on the regular dissection specimens.)
Peace,
Nancy
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Sept 14 2007 at 7:14am | IP Logged
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I am not against necessary dissection, but I have one child who really is. Given the wealth of alternative materials out there, there are so many ways to learn about animal systems without cutting yet another one open. (I told my son he didn't have to dissect, but he did have to learn to sketch from pictures of a dissection. He is fine with that, so far.)
This is a great resource...thanks!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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~Rachel~
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| Posted: Sept 14 2007 at 8:17am | IP Logged
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Maybe you might like this site then 
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KackyK
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| Posted: Sept 14 2007 at 10:32am | IP Logged
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Thanks Rachel. I went ahead and requested one. This is great!
I have one child who seems to have no qualms about wrestling his younger brothers (and the older brother too) until they scream...but freaks out if someone should even accidentally kill a spider.
I think he'll appreciate this much more! And then we will be able to appreciate him! 
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KackyK
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KackyK
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| Posted: Sept 14 2007 at 10:49am | IP Logged
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I followed some more links and found this site which seems to have even more alternatives.
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KackyK
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Sept 14 2007 at 5:58pm | IP Logged
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I think if a person has a legitimate moral concern about dissection, then having alternatives available is great.
I do take issue, however with many of that site's claims, especially the claim that dissection can lead to a lack of respect for animals. That may be true if approached incorrectly. But I know from experience that if dissection is approached with the correct attitude, then it teaches great respect for the animal being dissected, and for life in general.
When one performs a dissection knowing full well that an animal's life has been sacrificed so that you can learn from it, the learning takes on a great value and significance. When you see for yourself that an animal is not simply a bag of flesh and bones, but a work of incredible intricacy and complexity, you cannot help but see the beauty of it and appreciate the genius of the design behind it all. I find it really fosters a respect for life of all kinds and an enhanced admiration for He who created it all for us.
And in contrast to a computer program or plastic model,which take the "reality" of it away and present a more sanitized version, with a dissection you must look the reality in the face and deal with it.
In a way it reminds me of what is said about computer war games dehumanizing war and desensitizing kids to violence and bloodshed. Kids need to know that war is not some game and killing is real. Blood and pain are real.
And animals are real, too. By allowing multiple dissections of non-living, sanitized versions of animals are we in fact desensitizing children to them?
As far as being squeamish, I think that is a good thing. We should indeed be squeamish about taking animals apart and peering inside, as it is the ultimate intimacy.
My opinion is, unless your child is ready for that kind of intimacy, then dissections should definitely wait.
For those who are not yet ready, much can be learned from observations of living, breathing animals without the need for dissections. Books and drawings provide more information yet. And for the majority of students, until high school or even beyond, dissections are really not necessary or helpful because of the lack of maturity to understand what is being done and seen.
And the way dissections are done in many schools is problematic. Since teachers are not allowed to talk about God and respect for life, they cannot create the proper atmosphere for appreciation of the sacrifice of the animal, or true appreciation for what will be seen and learned. Add to that a classroom full of students who are afraid to show any emotion for fear of being ridiculed, and you have a poor recipe for learning the type of lessons that dissection can teach.
But at home, we CAN create that atmosphere. Our children can feel free to express their concerns and emotions and fascinations because we are there to guide and support them. And dissections can be approached as a respectful, awe-filled, intimate journey into the wonders of creation.
So, I do not think it is dissections that create a lack of respect for animals. But I do think that maturity, a respect for life, and the proper atmosphere should be a prerequisite for dissection.
Alternatives may be an option for some and I can see them being very useful in some circumstances. But dissection itself, if performed the proper way with the proper preparation and guidance, teaches us lessons far beyond those of simple anatomy.
Just my humble opinion.
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KackyK
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| Posted: Sept 14 2007 at 8:51pm | IP Logged
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Your "humble opinion" Theresa makes a lot of sense!
I have a 10yrold ds who loves loves human anatomy. Draws it on his own, does the coloring book...has a few little "models" too. His uncle is a doctor and when we have talked about all the specialties...he seems slightly drawn to the pathologists and their autopsys. I think part of that comes from his great ability and enjoyment out of puzzles and mysteries...good combo.
Anyways, I had sort of always assumed the next step would be to do some sort of a dissection activity. But those alternative sites have some more intricate (I think?) human models too.
I don't know...what do you guys think would be a great next step, hands on like, to go with?
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KackyK
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Sept 14 2007 at 10:11pm | IP Logged
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If your ds is interested in forensics and pathology, he can do a lot of related activities.
He can study fingerprints, learning about the patterns, and collecting and comparing prints from many sources. He can make a chart or graph of the different ones he finds and compare them to published frequency tables.
He can learn about blood types, the genetics behind them as well as the physiology. He can even do a blood typing activity using his own blood or artificial blood with kits you can order.
He can look at prepared slides of tissues, both healthy and pathological. Carolina Biological is a great source of prepared slides of all types. He can keep a notebook of sketches of his slides which he can label using a textbook to identify the structures.
He can do bacterial culture experiments and learn about antibiotics, setting up experiments to test various ones.
He can do fiber analysis by simply looking under a microscope at many types of hairs and fibers he collects from all over, sketching them and noting their characteristics.
He can do simple human anatomy experiments like studying vision (eye charts, blind spots, color blindness, optical illusions)heart function(get a cheap stethoscope and have him do exercise recovery times for all family members and willing volunteers)reflexes, taste tests (charting taste bud locations)bones (chicken, fish, and beef bone in vinegar)look at cheek cells under a microscope, isolate DNA from various sources (easy to find directions online).
He can do ink analysis using paper chromatography to separate pigments.
Give me time and I'll think of more!
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Sept 15 2007 at 4:23am | IP Logged
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Theresa,
Your thought-provoking comments are really helpful, as always. We'll definitely be using some of your excellent lab suggestions!
Thanks...
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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KackyK
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| Posted: Sept 15 2007 at 6:11am | IP Logged
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Thanks for all of those great ideas Theresa!
This year in 4H my ds will have 4 months of Forensic Science...I bet they'll be doing a lot of what you suggested.
I'll have to keep note of what they do and your suggestions. You are great with thinking out of the box!
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KackyK
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~Rachel~
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| Posted: Sept 21 2007 at 4:37pm | IP Logged
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I have never really had issues with dissection... but then at school it was simple things... we watched them do the eye, I did the heart of a pig twice... and that was it. It has really been phased out of British schools! There was always an option for people to opt out too
Theresa's suggestions sound like so much fun... my favourite parts of science!
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4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: No Dissection Models
