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MarieC
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| Posted: Feb 15 2007 at 1:16am | IP Logged
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I've always heard of people reading their way into the church but my brother and sil have managed to read themselves out. I've known they've been "church shopping" for almost a year but we never talked about it until tonight. My sil says that the more they read to learn what the church teaches the more they realized that they don't share those beliefs so why stick with a faith you don't believe? I don't even know how to respond....all my answers would go back to the Catechism and since that's done by the Church it doesn't hold water with them.
I just feel horrible about this...sad, angry, frustrated.
Anyone have any advice? Is there something I could read? What have you done....a priest at my parent's church said to just be supportive. At least they are trying to further their relationship with Christ and perhaps this a part of the journey to a deeper faith. That seems so wishy-washy. But then again, I tend to want results NOW....patience isn't my strong suit.
Thanks for letting me vent.
__________________
Marie
mom to 6
dds-98, 00, 02 and 09 & dss-03 and 06
Out in the Orchard
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hylabrook1
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Marie -
Sometimes people who have been in a church (not just the Catholic church) all their lives have never really examined what is taught or practiced. When they look at a different denomination, they look with fresh eyes and everything they see seems so exciting and sincere. They haven't yet had those experiences of knowing people who struggle with their faith in that new church or with people who seem to be hypocrites in those congregations, or any number of other of difficult situations. The new church seems so pure and right in its *newness*. Often, too, the teachings are explained clearly and thoroughly and they finally *understand*, after feeling like they didn't really see things so clearly in their original church. Often, as you grow up in a church your family has belonged to for years, no one really ever does clearly explain the teachings and practices; they are so much a part of the way *we just do things* that we don't particularly know or recognize their significance.
Then, for whatever reason, we look at a different church. We now study carefully what it has to say. We are not taking it as a given. And so it seems so clear and compelling.
Of course, if we chose to study the Catholic Church in this same way, we would come to the same deeper understanding and renewed commitment. For some people, this more conscious consideration is easier if the church is of a different denomination. It is fortunate that the other church is a Christian one, because they will learn more about Jesus and the Bible. This could lead them to re-examine the Catholic Church, as they might come to see that what they are learning at their new church is there in the Catholic Church as well.
I guess I'm saying that exploring other churches could be part of a journey that leads them closer to Jesus, Who will lead them back to the Catholic Church. Praying for them along these lines and being patient even if/when they criticize what you hold dear is not wishy-washy (at least I don't think it is  ).
"Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven."
Praying for all of you as you go through this painful time.
Peace,
Nancy
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Feb 15 2007 at 3:07pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| My sil says that the more they read to learn what the church teaches the more they realized that they don't share those beliefs |
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This I think would be more typical of those who've fallen into the idea of "church shopping" being not to find *the truth* but to find something that they LIKE.
That there is no *truth* to find but rather that you find something that fits how you want to be religious.
If they're reading things that they didn't know the Church really taught.. like if they'd thought that birth control for instance was "up to their conscience" and it was ok to not agree with the Catholic Church.. if they read more and found that that was wrong.. they might choose to reject the church rather than change themselves.
Though that may be good.. not the rejecting the church.. but finding out what she REALLY teaches.. the rejection may be a temporary thing spured by the newness of the information.. and as it settles and they find problems in other churches.. and get used to the ideas of what the Church really teaches.. leaving may seem rather drastic and they may come back.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Lisbet
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Marie, I know how much it hurts when this happens with loved ones. I know I personally struggle with 'frustration' over why some just can't seem to 'get' it. The only conclusion I have come to is that I need to be a good, strong, joyful example of a Catholic living the truths of our Church, and leave the rest to the holy spirit.
I've been doing this with my mother for years now, we rarely discuss issues of faith anymore, but she's always telling me how weird it is that I am 'happy' all the time! 
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Nina Murphy
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Oh, good thing you're happy all the time, Lisa. That is the most important thing in the witnessing, right?
I could have written your first paragraph, too, and would have, but then reading your second paragraph made me realize why I am *failing* at attracting my relatives to the Catholic Church!!!  ARGHHHHHH!!!  I think I will just *shut*. 
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But I'm with ya, Marie.
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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onemoretracy
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| Posted: Feb 15 2007 at 7:38pm | IP Logged
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I left and came back.
I agree that the whole church shopping thing is driven by our own selfishness to find something we like, not a pursual of the Truth, at least that was my experience.
The whole concept of the founding of the Church, where the Bible came from and basically the whole authority issues are what brought me back into the Church. Once I accepted that the authority Catholic Chuch came from Christ Himself, it made it so much easier to swallow those hard teachings that before I could just say I disagree with this or I disagree with that. I accepted that Truth is Truth no matter if I agree with it or not!
I am so sorry for the pain it must be causing you, but I am living proof that sometimes we have to lose something precious before we can even begin to appreciate it's value.
One thing I am curious of though is are they leaving for another denomination or are they leaving Christianity altogether? Are they convinced of Christ? I know I had to leave the Church before I really became a true beliver in Him. Are they really lookign for answers and truth or just comfortablity?
I ask this because if they are not searching and seeking to know Him more, but are only looking for a more comfortable faith, it may be difficult to engage them in any apologetics at this point.
Two books that really touched me were "By What Authority" by Mark Shea and also "Why Do Catholics Do That". "Rome Sweet Home" is very strong too.
Be prepared for them to not be open to talking about this with you right now though.
Of course, prayer and genuine example are always the way to go no matter what though.
God Bless,
__________________
Tracy
DH Lee
DS Jake-10
DS Ryan-9
DS Luke-6
DD Laine-6
DD Mary Clare-3
DD Sara (Dec.6 '08)
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Betsy
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| Posted: Feb 16 2007 at 6:48am | IP Logged
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+JMJ+
I remember Kimberly Hahn mentioning that part of her conversion came from reading Anti-Catholic books. She would get so upset at the gross inaccuracies (mind you, Scott was Catholic at this point, not her). She went on to say that she ended up defending the Faith and was really lead into the Church because of this.
It might work???????
Betsy
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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: Feb 16 2007 at 2:22pm | IP Logged
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onemoretracy wrote:
One thing I am curious of though is are they leaving for another denomination or are they leaving Christianity altogether? Are they convinced of Christ? I know I had to leave the Church before I really became a true beliver in Him. Are they really lookign for answers and truth or just comfortablity?
I ask this because if they are not searching and seeking to know Him more, but are only looking for a more comfortable faith, it may be difficult to engage them in any apologetics at this point.
God Bless,
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Oh, Exactly.
Because if they are falling away from institulionalized religion altogether and rebelling against moral strictures and authoritative teaching, then you have a whole different ballgame. It is like talking to a brick wall. I think Lisa had it right that in this case, we can only pray that God work through us somehow as channels... just living OUR lives faithfully. The rest is in His hands. It is futile to be fearful for their salvation because there is really nothing we can do. But we can always PRAY! St. Monica......
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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MarieC
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| Posted: Feb 17 2007 at 1:52am | IP Logged
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Thanks for all these wonderful posts. They've offered me so much hope! I'm sorry it has taken me so long to respond....we had quite a snowstorm this week and things cleared up about the time I posted and we've been running around out of the house since!
hylabrook1 wrote:
"Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven." Nancy |
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Thank you, Nancy, for all of your kind words. Your post really spoke to me. Thank you, especially, for reminding me of these words. My brother & sil have never spoken rudely or even negatively about the faith my family has in the church....it's more along the lines of "this just isn't for us." But I feel insulted.
JodieLyn wrote:
Quote:
| My sil says that the more they read to learn what the church teaches the more they realized that they don't share those beliefs |
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This I think would be more typical of those who've fallen into the idea of "church shopping" being not to find *the truth* but to find something that they LIKE.
That there is no *truth* to find but rather that you find something that fits how you want to be religious.
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This is exactly the situation! Hopefully they will see the truth in time.
Lisbet wrote:
Marie, I know how much it hurts when this happens with loved ones. I know I personally struggle with 'frustration' over why some just can't seem to 'get' it. The only conclusion I have come to is that I need to be a good, strong, joyful example of a Catholic living the truths of our Church, and leave the rest to the holy spirit.
I've been doing this with my mother for years now, we rarely discuss issues of faith anymore, but she's always telling me how weird it is that I am 'happy' all the time! |
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Thanks, Lisa! This is just what Scott has been trying to tell me, I think....but you said it in the "girly" way that I can understand! The part about being 'happy' all the time reminds me of something me sil said the other night. She said, "You never complain about anything anymore." Some of that is because as I've grown in my faith I see a lot more blessings....and realize that even crosses are blessings. And some of it is just not feeling charitable in airing my dirty laundry to her. I think for a long time she and I fell into the practice of complaining about husbands and my parents to each other. She isn't getting that my uncomplaining attitude isn't a rejection of her friendship...it's a rejection of that attitude.
onemoretracy wrote:
I left and came back.
The whole concept of the founding of the Church, where the Bible came from and basically the whole authority issues are what brought me back into the Church. Once I accepted that the authority Catholic Chuch came from Christ Himself, it made it so much easier to swallow those hard teachings that before I could just say I disagree with this or I disagree with that. I accepted that Truth is Truth no matter if I agree with it or not!
I am so sorry for the pain it must be causing you, but I am living proof that sometimes we have to lose something precious before we can even begin to appreciate it's value.
One thing I am curious of though is are they leaving for another denomination or are they leaving Christianity altogether? Are they convinced of Christ? I know I had to leave the Church before I really became a true beliver in Him. Are they really lookign for answers and truth or just comfortablity?
I ask this because if they are not searching and seeking to know Him more, but are only looking for a more comfortable faith, it may be difficult to engage them in any apologetics at this point.
Two books that really touched me were "By What Authority" by Mark Shea and also "Why Do Catholics Do That". "Rome Sweet Home" is very strong too.
Be prepared for them to not be open to talking about this with you right now though.
Of course, prayer and genuine example are always the way to go no matter what though.
God Bless,
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Tracy....THANK YOU for sharing this. Your first line is so hopeful to me!
In answer to some of your questions....they are sticking with Christianity. They can't seem to settle on a church, however. They've been to the "mega-church" in our area, several Lutheran churches (my sil grew up Lutheran and converted 6 years ago) and a Disciples of Christ church. I think the Disciples of Christ Church is the forerunner at this point. They want to serve God, I believe...especially sil....and they want to have a church that reflects their beliefs. My sil said my brother keeps asking (about the churches they visit), "what are the rules?" So I think, for him, finding comfortability is a big thing.
Thanks, for the book suggestions. I don't know if they'd read them but it would be good to have something to suggest if they are up to it.
Betsy wrote:
+JMJ+
I remember Kimberly Hahn mentioning that part of her conversion came from reading Anti-Catholic books. She would get so upset at the gross inaccuracies (mind you, Scott was Catholic at this point, not her). She went on to say that she ended up defending the Faith and was really lead into the Church because of this.
It might work???????
Betsy
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Thanks, Betsy! I've thought about the Hahn's several times lately....they give me great hope!
I'll have to get my copy of Rome Sweet Home back and consider offering it to them.
Nina Murphy wrote:
| I think Lisa had it right that in this case, we can only pray that God work through us somehow as channels... just living OUR lives faithfully. The rest is in His hands. It is futile to be fearful for their salvation because there is really nothing we can do. But we can always PRAY! St. Monica...... |
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OK, Nina & Lisa....has my husband been talking to the two of you?! In reading this I think it is just what he's been saying....but not in a way a girl can understand!
I'm calling on St. Monica, St. William and St. Anne (my db and sil's patron saints), Our Lady of Good Counsel and the 3 babies they've miscarried to intercede.
Thank you, all, for your kind, uplifting and hopeful words. It's just what I needed to hear. We'll see them at a birthday party on Sat. afternoon....I'm praying for the grace to be a good example.
__________________
Marie
mom to 6
dds-98, 00, 02 and 09 & dss-03 and 06
Out in the Orchard
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: When Family Leaves the Church
