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Anne McD
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Hi everyone,
I've got a bit of a doozy. I know why its important for a child to make his first confession before he makes his first Holy Communion, but my BIL doesn't, and I'm having trouble formulating a good response. He's not really well educated in his faith, and thinks that his son, who will be 9 this summer, doesn't need the "guilt trip" that comes from having to go to confession. That's why he and his wife (not Catholic) have decided to push off his recieving the sacraments another year. Its very sad, and my husband is the Godfather, so I'm trying to help him find some good arguments for him to bring to his brother.
Any thoughts? I feel really bad that this child is being denied access to the Holy Eucharist.  Maybe my dh should start with that argument . . .
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Anne
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Betsy
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+JMJ+
I don't have much advice to offer, but their must have been some bad formation floating around a number of years ago. I went to Catholic School from 1-4grade. I made my First Communion in 2nd grade and First Confession in 4th!!!!
Honestly, I didn't even know that that was "wrong" until I was much, much older!
Betsy
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juststartn
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I've heard such nonsense as well. One of my nieces (whose CCD teacher at one point was her own mother--one of my dd's godmother) didn't know that missing Mass was a mortal sin, and that you HAD to go to confession before receiving OL in the Eucharist if you had committed a mortal sin--otherwise, you were committing yet another mortal sin...
And folks wonder why I am making sure that my dds' catechesis is top on my priority list in our hsing schedule!
Sorry I don't have an argument. But frankly, if the child is old enough to understand right from wrong, well enough to go up to receive OL, than he/she is old enough to go to Confession. But that's my opinion.
Rachel
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Tina P.
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Anne
First, confession is not about guilt. It is about the cleansing of a soul, purifying it so that it is *ready* to recieve Jesus Christ, body, soul, and divinity. Sometimes purification can hurt. When you want to sterilize something, how do you clean it? Boil it, right? Our souls go through a similar process to be purified.
Ask your brother-in-law to read King of the Golden City. Maybe you can buy it for him for his birthday or as a preparation gift for his first Confession.
Priests have the power, given by Jesus Christ himself, to absolve us of our sins. A priest can ask us to do penance. And confessing our sins to a priest should relieve us of all we'd done before, not make us feel guilty.
Does any of this make sense?
Hopefully, you'll get other responses that will flesh out what I've said. God bless,
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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Mary G
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When my now-15yod was prepping for FC/FHC, we were in an awesome parish with an awesome pastor. Now Msgr Ingham gave the best talk to the PARENTS about 2 months before the kids rec'd First Confession, explaining to them that NOT having the kids go to FC would give them much worse psych problems later as they would never learn how to ask for forgiveness, obtain absolution, do reparation and MOVE ON! Our society is so worried about "guilt trips" that we never cleanse our hearts/souls/minds of our past transgressions (or those of others) and we need to. He mentioned that there would be many fewer psychologists needed if we all went to confession more often. 
I also want to note that this was the first time I didn't worry about my kids' sacrament prep! Ingham was amazing!
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MaryG
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MichelleW
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My kids receive FHC last year. They haven't yet had their first confessions! I went back and forth with our parish's faith formation director, but that is how they do it here. FHC in 2nd grade, First Confession in 4th.
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Michelle
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Tina P.
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Mary G wrote:
| NOT having the kids go to FC would give them much worse psych problems later as they would never learn how to ask for forgiveness, obtain absolution, do reparation and MOVE ON! Our society is so worried about "guilt trips" that we never cleanse our hearts/souls/minds of our past transgressions (or those of others) and we need to. He mentioned that there would be many fewer psychologists needed if we all went to confession more often. |
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I had a Roman Catholic Books catalog (loaned it to a friend) in which the book I have highlighted in the link, Pardon and Peace, has the following quote:
Back in the late 1940s, when Freud's theories were at the peak of their influence, one prominent psychiatrist shocked the intelligentsia with this surprising admission:
“People come here in droves and pay me inordinate amounts of money for trying to do what the Catholic Church does for nothing.”
What he had discovered was that the Sacrament of Penance improves mental and even physical health in ways that psychotherapy does less reliably, if a lot more expensively.
I bought that book based on this quote alone. If THAT isn't an argument for Confession, what is? I heard that Julie Andrews sees a psychologist and that this is her "religion." Julie, Julie! Go to the Catholic church and spend your money on more worthy things!
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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Mary G
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Tina P. wrote:
| Julie, Julie! Go to the Catholic church and spend your money on more worthy things! |
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Or, she could always donate her money to me
Tina, I'll need to check out that book -- sounds just like what then-Fr. Ingham was saying. I also REALLY appreciated that he talked to the adults first to get them on the right page before the kids came home and tried to explain what they learned.
He also asked, why shouldn't we give 7-8 year olds a sense of guilt for wrongdoing? If they're old enough to receive the Lord and understand what THAT means, they should be old enough to understand (at least somewhat) whether they're in a state of grace to receive.....
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MaryG
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CatholicMommy
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Perhaps this might help a bit:
Reconciliation is not about a list of sins or a guilt trip. It is about recognizing the need for God's grace in our lives, even when we are not consciously aware of having done anything wrong. I do not recall all the Scripture passages right now, but there are 9 (?) Scripture passages listed in the book for the Rite of Reconciliation, upon which a person can read and meditate before going to confession - I know that 3 of them are the Parable of the Good Shepherd, the Parable of the Found Sheep, and the Father and the Son (the Prodigal Son only up to the point of having the feast for the returned son).
All a child is required to do is to recognize God's grace in his or her life - and (as stated above) if the child is aware of the True Presence and the concept of Communion, then they can be made aware of the need to "clear blockages from their vine" - as in the Parable of the True Vine. Vines develop blockages, and if we recognize that we can have some kind of blockage (sin, bad habit, slothness in faith), then God's grace is already working - and Confession allows us to receive a blessing from the Priest which then allows the Holy Spirit to give us many more graces...
I'm rambling, but I hope this helps some!
God Bless!
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Tina P.
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Mary G wrote:
Tina P. wrote:
| Julie, Julie! Go to the Catholic church and spend your money on more worthy things! |
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Or, she could always donate her money to me |
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Well, that's a worthy cause, isn't it?
Mary G wrote:
| He also asked, why shouldn't we give 7-8 year olds a sense of guilt for wrongdoing? If they're old enough to receive the Lord and understand what THAT means, they should be old enough to understand (at least somewhat) whether they're in a state of grace to receive..... |
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I completely agree. However, I'll readily admit I'm still learning ~ and it's strictly because I'm teaching my own kids catechism ~ what I've done (sometimes YEARS ago  ) that was wrong and am making amends for it. I didn't have the greatest Catholic education, either.
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Anne McD
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I knew I came to the right place!!  Thank you so much, Ladies! I love what you said, Mary G and Tina, about our psycological need for confession-- I had heard this so long ago, but needed to be reminded! You kind of nailed it on the head, with regards to our messed up view of ourselves (secularly speaking). The Catholic Church gives us amazing opportunities to not only confess our sins and ask for forgiveness, but to forgive others so that we don't carry their sin on our backs.
Kinda like God knew what He was doing when He set the Church up and runnig for us, or something. . .
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juststartn
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Hm. I've always explained sins to my dds like bricks/blocks we use when building a wall. That venial sins are not such big blocks, but with enough of them, we can completely obscure what's on the other side. That mortal sins are like great big HUGE blocks (we've watched the shows on the building of the pyramids, as well as some of the other ancient structures, so they have some idea as to scale of those things), that are basically a wall in and of themselves..and that by going to confession, and talking to Jesus thru the priest, we basically use a big bulldozer to get rid of them--knock them out of the way, haul them off, and need never deal with those again (unless we repeat the sin of course).
How can one receive the Body and Blood of OL if there is a wall between us? You can't. That's how I've explained it. I've told them that sometimes people go up and receive when they shouldn't--sometimes they KNOW that they shouldn't, and sometimes they don't. But that GOD knows. And that it is FAR better to kneel in our pew, than to go up and, in effect, demand a relationship we have no basis for.
They seem to have gotten THAT at least. My dds know better than to ask me why I'm not going up, if I've not made it to Confession...
Rachel
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JennGM
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Here are the quote from the documents that explain that children must receive the first confession before the First Communion.
First Confession, First Communion
In the documents are some explanations of WHY...
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Mary G
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But Jenn, if the Vatican says we should have FC before FHC, how come there are parishes (and it sounds like they're pretty far flung) that do the FHC in 2nd but FC in 4th?
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JennGM
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Mary G wrote:
| But Jenn, if the Vatican says we should have FC before FHC, how come there are parishes (and it sounds like they're pretty far flung) that do the FHC in 2nd but FC in 4th? |
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Well, Mary, to remain charitable,  I'd just say that's the other reasons for some of these letters, to correct some problems. FC before FH is in Canon Law. Sometimes we need some "reminders" of what is correct.
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Elizabeth
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Anne,
Perhaps you could suggest to you BIL that he explain confession this way. It's all about turning back to the forgiving Father. Why would we want to keep a child from that? Rather than getting caught up in definition of mortal or venial sin and which documents require what, you can present confession as a beautiful gift given to the child. The idea, I think is for the child to recognize that sin draws us further and further from God and for the child to WANT to be close to Him. A child needs only a very simple concept of sin in order to understand and desire confession. The true vine parable is a beautiful one to share with children. The Gardener, the Forgiving Father, the Good Shepherd--He is there, warm and waiting in the sacrament. As much as we might be tempted to focus on the head knowledge of both the child and his father in this case, it's the hearts we want. We want them to want confession.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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kingvozzo
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JennGM wrote:
Mary G wrote:
| But Jenn, if the Vatican says we should have FC before FHC, how come there are parishes (and it sounds like they're pretty far flung) that do the FHC in 2nd but FC in 4th? |
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Well, Mary, to remain charitable, I'd just say that's the other reasons for some of these letters, to correct some problems. FC before FH is in Canon Law. Sometimes we need some "reminders" of what is correct. |
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I know this was a trend years ago (and the way I rec'd the sacraments) but I thought that they had completely done away with this. I was discussing this with a priest in my hometown, who was friends with the pastor I had when I rec'd FHC in 2nd and FC in 4th. The priest said "we sure did lead a lot of people the wrong way." I was pretty surprised to hear he was so 'experimental' because he's VERY orthodox now.
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JennGM
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Elizabeth wrote:
Anne,
Perhaps you could suggest to you BIL that he explain confession this way. It's all about turning back to the forgiving Father. Why would we want to keep a child from that? Rather than getting caught up in definition of mortal or venial sin and which documents require what, you can present confession as a beautiful gift given to the child. The idea, I think is for the child to recognize that sin draws us further and further from God and for the child to WANT to be close to Him. A child needs only a very simple concept of sin in order to understand and desire confession. The true vine parable is a beautiful one to share with children. The Gardener, the Forgiving Father, the Good Shepherd--He is there, warm and waiting in the sacrament. As much as we might be tempted to focus on the head knowledge of both the child and his father in this case, it's the hearts we want. We want them to want confession. |
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That is beautiful, Elizabeth.
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MichelleW
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JennGM wrote:
FC before FH is in Canon Law. Sometimes we need some "reminders" of what is correct. |
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So what are we supposed to do with this? I find this very frustrating. If our parish is in error on this, the probablitiy is high that they are in error on other things. What do I do with that? And now that I do know they are in error on this (and it is not just my opinion that FHC makes more sense after first confession), what is my responsibility? And we have already done this wrong, so now what?
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alicegunther
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MichelleW wrote:
JennGM wrote:
FC before FH is in Canon Law. Sometimes we need some "reminders" of what is correct. |
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So what are we supposed to do with this? I find this very frustrating. If our parish is in error on this, the probablitiy is high that they are in error on other things. What do I do with that? And now that I do know they are in error on this (and it is not just my opinion that FHC makes more sense after first confession), what is my responsibility? And we have already done this wrong, so now what? |
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Michelle, when I was a kid, our parish did things backwards, giving the children (including myself) Communion in second grade and Penance in third. In fact, this was a common practice up until very recently and is only now getting straightened out.
I find that pastors are very open to kind and polite concerns raised by parishioners, particularly when they are backed up with information. Perhaps it might make sense to speak to him, showing him the letter from the Vatican--or even emailing him with it if he is the type to correspond on the computer.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: why first confession?
