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doris
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| Posted: Oct 14 2006 at 6:00pm | IP Logged
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Do you attend your parish church, or elsewhere?
We've recently moved. We've been very disappointed by our parish church. It's very busy and also very unwelcoming -- almost no-one has spoken to us since we've been going, despite us persisting in going to coffee whenever it's on. Worse than that, the parish priest seems to change the liturgy at whim (eg we've never said the Creed at any Sunday Mass we've been to). Finally, the children's liturgy is pretty dire.
There's also a local Benedictine Abbey. Also very big, also very unfriendly. Children's liturgy there is even worse (eg one Sunday, the liturgist asked, 'What does Peter mean when he calls Jesus "the Christ". When there was no answer, he said, 'Yes, it is hard isn't it' and moved on!!).
So we've looked further afield, to a church which is 3 or 4 miles away, again big, but with a priest who actually says all the words of the canon of the Mass, and a children's liturgy which is boring, but solid. The music, meanwhile, is abysmal, but at this point we're thinking that beggars can't be choosers.
So my question is -- how important is it for one to attend one's parish church? We don't want to be too 'consumerist' about it but on the other hand we want to get some spiritual nourishment for all of us. What's the bottom line?
Elizabeth
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mrsgranola
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doris wrote:
So we've looked further afield, to a church which is 3 or 4 miles away, again big, but with a priest who actually says all the words of the canon of the Mass, and a children's liturgy which is boring, but solid. The music, meanwhile, is abysmal, but at this point we're thinking that beggars can't be choosers.
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Elizabeth, I'm pretty much a "bloom where you are planted" kind of person but I wouldn't go to someplace that had widespread abuses. The above really jumped out at me b/c you said "further afield" and it's ONLY 3 or 4 miles away! My closest Catholic church would be at least a 20-25 min. drive (some of that at highway speed). You are blessed to have so many close to you, my dear...
I don't have any words of wisdom, other than that. 
JoAnna in NC
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Karen E.
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| Posted: Oct 14 2006 at 9:42pm | IP Logged
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doris wrote:
So my question is -- how important is it for one to attend one's parish church? We don't want to be too 'consumerist' about it but on the other hand we want to get some spiritual nourishment for all of us. What's the bottom line?
Elizabeth |
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The bottom line is that according to the 1983 Code of Canon Law, you may choose what church you attend. You're not required to attend your parish church.
Hope this helps!
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God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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ALmom
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I would add that you find the parish that fulfills the rubrics the best (chances are there are parishioners looking for the same thing so that when the priests change, you still have reasonable chance that it won't go out of control even with someone far afield). But once you pick a parish - stick with it. The old rules were intended to keep folks from church hopping and we don't want to be church hoppers. That being said - you have to use some discernment as to when things are so bad, you just cannot allow the scandal to your children.
We live 5 minutes from our geographic parish - but attend a parish about 20 minutes drive. We have never attended the geographic parish. Prior to this move, we were in our geographic parish - nothing better was close enough, although things did get bad enough at one point, that we drove 2 hours to Mass at a convent while we tried to discern whether or not we should stay. When we went back, things improved enough to stay put.
You will often find that certain Masses, even, are better than others. We always go for the earliest morning Mass as this is the one with the least likely possibility of someone pulling a stunt on us.
Janet
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Oct 14 2006 at 10:16pm | IP Logged
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Definitely go where you feel welcomed and comfortable. (Sorry about the music!) I grew up in a parish-hopping family...amazingly, my parents just re-joined their "geographical" parish (after 40 years!) because the new pastor is orthodox, dynamic, welcoming...all the things the parish lacked when they first moved into the neighborhood. (I say this to encourage you to visit parishes every few years...you never know whom God will send...)
It's also good to pray about your choices...God will guide you to the best place for your family, if you ask Him for help.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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doris
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| Posted: Oct 16 2006 at 3:44pm | IP Logged
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Thanks to all. We are praying but finding it hard to discern God's will. Nowhere is perfect this side of heaven, that's for sure, but somewhere a bit less imperfect would be nice...
Elizabeth
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mumofsix
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We finally decided to abandon our local parish last year after 14 years. It took us that long to decide because we were very impressed with the "bloom where you are planted" argument and believed that our fellow parishioners were our nearest "brothers and sisters in Christ". I still believe that but ... increasing liturgical abuses and radical lack of reverence or respect for the Blessed Sacrament in particular led me to believe that attending this church was becoming a danger to my children's faith. We had always attended our local Oratory from time to time for spiritual refreshment (okay emergency rations) and last autumn we decided to go there full time. We still attended our own parish from time to time when we got up late, etc. Then on Christmas Eve midnight Mass, at the Oratory, in front of the crib, I prayed for discernment in this area. I have never been back to my own parish. My only regret now is that it took me that long.
The Catholic church in the west is in dire straits. To protect your own and your children's faith, find a church that honours Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, encourages devotion to Our Lady and upholds the teaching of the Pope - those are the giveaways. A friendly welcome is less important, imo. You will make friends as you are able to become more involved in your chosen parish. Do I recall correctly that you live in London? If so you are spoiled for choice!
Jane.
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christinalinz
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Regarding the priest's ommission of the Creed, The GIRM specifies (in no. 44) that the Creed is *obligatory* on Sundays and solemnities. Doesn't the priest's ommission of the Creed then invalidate that Mass?
I haven't experienced too much liturgical abuse personally, but I always find it to be a near occasion of sin (for me) when I see it! The Chancery office needs to hear about this kind of abuse every time it occurs, so the problem can be corrected. We need to defend the Holy Mass until the Liturgical Reforms are implemented...
Best wishes finding a church where you feel welcome!
Christina
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doris
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Thanks. Regarding the omission of the Creed, I think it's means that the celebration of the Mass is valid but not licit. ie it's not in line with Church teaching, but it works.
I would feel very uncomfortable reporting the lack of the Creed to the Chancery office (I'd never heard of it!) but maybe I should.
Elizabeth
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ALmom
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A Mass is valid as long as you have the form and matter of the Sacrament (ie at Mass, you must have the words of consecration, a priest intending to do what the church intends (we were told that valid ordination is sufficient to presume this) and bread and wine (not oat cakes and grape juice). The one time we thought the Mass might have been invalid was when the parishes were baking their own bread (and putting extra stuff in it as no one really had control of the recipes used - but that was way back when I was in high school and I didn't know any better then and fortunately didn't have anything to do (nor did my family) with altar bread baking I didn't think anything of it until later.
A Mass is illicit but not invalid if the form and matter are there but other aspects of the rubrics are not being followed - ie disobedience that does not invalidate the sacramental character itself.
When the creed is left out of Sunday Masses, our family prays the creed after Mass. When the prayers are changed, we pray them the way the church intends (quietly without disturbing anyone else) and refuse to sing illicit versions of the Psalm or Lamb of God. We read the correct Psalm quietly while the choir is singing the illicit version.
Depending on the degree of seriousness of the illicit activities, you have to discern at what point you should say something to the responsible parties. In deciding you consider:
the degree of your own responsibility
the seriousness of the offense
the liklihood that speaking up will make things better.
You don't want to just ignore important matters, but you also want to avoid being a complainer. Many of the most serious abuses at our first parish were addressed rather quickly by a wonderful priest. He has had to proceed cautiously with others. We try to assume the priest is taking care of the illicit things piece by piece but have gotten unafraid to speak if the opportunity presents itself or if the matter is very serious. It helps if you are known and respected first, before speaking out.
Janet
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guitarnan
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Karen,
Do you know which clause of the Code of Canon Law states that you don't have to worship at your geographical parish church? We were looking for this last night.
Thanks,
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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doris
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Just wanted to say that today we went to the Brompton Oratory for Mass. It was wonderful! Such a beautiful church, and a normal, simple, reverent and correct liturgy:
The priest faced the altar!
The servers were male!
The priest said all the words of the liturgy, no more and no less!
Everyone knelt for the eucharistic prayer!
Everyone received communion kneeling at the altar rail!
Gosh, I'm obviously getting really conservative in my old age... Actually, seriously, it was great and the children even noticed the difference. They loved being in such a beatiful setting and it was so much more prayerful.
Elizabeth
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Home educating in London, UK with dd (2000) ds (2002), dd (2004), ds (2008) and dd (2011).
Frabjous Days
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Kathryn UK
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I wondered about suggesting the Brompton Oratory to you  . I went there on Palm Sunday last year with a visiting friend from the US. Lovely!
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Kathryn
Dh Michael,  Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06)  (11/07)
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Parish church or elsewhere?
