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Pamin OZ
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| Posted: Oct 01 2006 at 8:21pm | IP Logged
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This must be my season for asking questions.
Does anyone not use Apologia? Everyone I know seems to be planning to use it and I keep thinking "How will ever read all the books on MacBeth's list if we do?".
(sort of tongue in cheek)
Pam
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lapazfarm
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I don't use it. Personally, I think they are awful. But that's just me. I'd go with MacBeth's list.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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mrsgranola
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We're using the Apologia General Science course for Jacob this year (8th grade). We're doing it with a co-op we're a part of this year and so far it's going well. The girls are doing the Zoology book in the co-op. So far so good but I'm keeping my eyes open... please let me know if any of you find anything offensive, inaccurate, and/or anti-Catholic in the materials...
JoAnna
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Mom to Jacob, Grace, Mary, Lucas, Emma, Carrie and Gianna
Parente Adventures
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hylabrook1
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I've used 6 of the Apologia books over the years. I didn'd find anything anti-Catholic in any of them. Actually, I think they are all done excellently as far as academic scientific information goes. The one small problem I have is the insistence on creationism, rather than presenting it as just one way of looking at things. That, however, is not done to the point of becoming a distraction, and, as my children are all aware that the author is not Catholic, they quickly recognize that when Wile starts talking like that, they don't *have* to agree with everything he says. Actually, it has provided fodder for some worthwhile conversations. From time to time he quotes Scripture as the basis for something he is saying, but, again, that is not especially inappropriate. I haven't found that he tries to substitute a Scriptural explanation for a scientific one, just that he sometimes tries to connect the two, which is not offensive.
Just my 2cents.
Peace,
Nancy
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: Oct 02 2006 at 11:38am | IP Logged
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Pam -
Sorry, I didn't really reply to your original question. I think reading the books on MacBeth's list would be more fun than doing the textbook, but I guess I would want to read through the listed books to reassure myself that somehow the material was being covered, at least for high school aged kids. But for elementary ages I would much rather do something other than a textbook, something more "relational".
Peace,
Nancy
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Anne Marie M
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Pam,
We did Chem last year and are doing Physics this year - both in a co-op setting with a physicist dad doing the teaching. I think the material is well presented (my kids learned to ignore the tangents) and they come away with a good understanding of the material.
Anne Marie in NM
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Willa
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My oldest used them along with some of MacBeth's books. My second son went through part of the Biology. High school science is a vexed question for me. I don't like the way American textbooks present science but I'm not a scientist myself so I don't feel I can wing it.
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Oct 03 2006 at 10:47pm | IP Logged
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My oldest ds used the Apologia Chemistry book. Like Willa, I am no scientist and I really didn't want to go this alone.
My ds said the book was very simple to use. It took him all of 11th and 12th grade to finish it but that was because of his own leisurely pacing.  When finished, he loaned it to a friend of his who was struggling through Chemistry in high school. His friend said the book was much easier to understand than the high school Chemistry teacher.
My oldest dd is taking Chemistry this year. She was eager for the class thinking it was all about studying the periodic table and such but, from day one, the teacher told them that if they weren't any good at math they'd never get through the class. Luckily, she's very good at math and scored 100% the first six weeks. But now she says the stuff has turned into mind-boggling problem-solving (which she's usually pretty good at and which she loves the challenge of). They're having to figure out stuff that is way over my head.  I looked over the formulas she was working on tonight and I told her to go find her father.
We need to get that Apologia Chemistry book back from the friend.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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ALmom
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We have used Apologia Physical Science, Biology and Chemistry (I got all 3 from a Catholic supplier initially so thought they would be pretty safe) - mostly in desperation for our dd to come up with a way to fill in a science transcript for high school. It worked OK for her - but she isn't going into science (still despises the subject  ). I didn't know a thing about MacBeth's lists at the time and frankly, by high school, with 6 and vision therapy, I had to have something that my dd could do mostly on her own though I'm sure the list with real books would have served her better if she would have read them when she was younger.
In favor of Apologia - it was easy to understand, had a CD with it, and access to someone to ask questions. I don't think it was wrong of me to use it in my circumstances - ie there wasn't anything else out there that I could find at the time, my dd really wanted a text that she could work through on her own and I didn't want someone going into too much detail in other areas (at the time we were looking, every Biology text seemed rather disgusting to me so this was lesser of two evils so to speak). However, I won't be using them again - the Chemistry was the best of the 3.
The Physical Science text spent a great deal of time and energy debunking Global Warming and other such. I don't know enough science to know whether his arguements were good or not - but it made the text feel agenda driven to me. It also had the standard slam against Galileo in it so you'll have to make sure to have material to correct that one. I'm hoping to sell it, but just don't feel comfortable or sure about offering it because of it's agenda driven nature and the Galileo thing. It turns out I have older editions anyways, so I don't think the Protestant co-op schools are using my edition either.
The Biology was heavily against evolution of man - did distinguish between micro and macro evolution but still a lot of time presenting various pieces of evidence and historical background on Darwin in the debunking standard theories agenda driven mode. It was better than most Creationist sciences I've seen - but without knowing more myself, I just felt what I wanted was a basic science text that would let me draw my own conclusions. I would not use this text again (have found one that is working for us OK with Kolbe).
The Chemistry seemed the least agenda driven and thus the one I liked best. But somehow it still seemed light. If I hadn't sold the Chemistry, I think I would have allowed it as a middle school introduction but it just didn't seem to have enough of the mathematical connection and some of the stuff I vaguely remember from my high school chemistry (I still had my high school book and we referred to it a couple of times to get a better handle on concepts). I guess we needed more detail than Apologia gave.
In general, it just seemed like there was so much not in the text - I wanted more information on science and less on his particular agendas. I guess we came away feeling like it was science light.
This is just my experience with these particular texts. None of the science texts are great - but we need them in our household. We have gone to the ones Kolbe recommends (but these have problems too) and they seem pretty decent with lots of hands on, etc. but we do skip many sections where they talk about current scientists, etc. - some of that brings up things I don't want to have to go into right now. These are little snip-its in a seperate section and not integral to the text so they are not essential and very easily skipped. Nothing in the way of textbooks is all that great - you do the best you can if you really need a textbook. I know some really like Apologia - we just didn't, though it sufficed for our dd with a science block. Personally, I think the best bet for us would have been to find an enthusiastic scientist that I could trust and hire them as tutor/mentor at the high school level.(Hey MacBeth - want to move south?)
Janet
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BrendaPeter
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Would someone please provide a link to Macbeth's list? Thx!
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Patty LeVasseur
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Brenda,
Here is the link.
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Patty
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MacBeth
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| Posted: Oct 05 2006 at 9:30am | IP Logged
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Patty LeVasseur wrote:
Brenda,
Here is the link. |
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Thanks, Patty  . I really have to work on my links.
While I don't use Apologia (it's just not for me), I always say that the books on my list can be used alone, or as a living book selection to supplement and enhance the textbook...which, along with field or lab experiences, will make the text more meaningful. Without meaning, the subject is lost, no matter how thorough the text.
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God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog 
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TracyQ
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| Posted: Oct 05 2006 at 12:33pm | IP Logged
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We've used Apologia last year for Jake for Biology, and this year for Chemstry for him, and Biology for Zach this year. So basically for the high school years.
My girlfriend just graduated last year with a teaching degree in middle and high school science. I had her look over the Biology book, and she was quite impressed, saying if we used them, he'd be very well prepared for college.
While it's not perfect, nothing is. We work through that which isn't perfect for us, but feel great that it's thorough, and understandable, particularly seeing as it's not the easiest subject for high school to teach. Jake likes the way it speaks to him, and that he can understand it pretty well.
We loved Apologia Elementary, which is very hands on, with notebooking, and more CMish. It was the best science we did thus far (using Astronomy last year, and learning a ton)!
I'm going to add in some of MacBeth's list as well as I can, though the text is so rigorous, and quite frankly, we only have so much time to get everything done by next year!
We plan to use Apologia Physics next year with Jake, and Chemistry with Zach. Jake will only have 3 years of science, so I hope that'll be OK.
Tracy
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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Pamin OZ
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| Posted: Oct 05 2006 at 5:02pm | IP Logged
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This is what I mean:
(Tracy)
I'm going to add in some of MacBeth's list as well as I can, though the text is so rigorous, and quite frankly, we only have so much time to get everything done by next year!
**
Yes, that's what I think and that's why I'd like to have the courage to leave it if necessary.
Pam
Off on hols for a week!
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BrendaPeter
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| Posted: Oct 05 2006 at 9:11pm | IP Logged
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Thanks Patty for the link!
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Leonie
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We don't.
We tried the Chemistry book a few years ago - yuck! For us, it was dry and boring - enough to kill any Chem interest. I still own the book - the experiments are good, but nothing I can't find elsewhere.
I like living books and MacBeth's Opinion. I find these are really enough for my kids for high school Science - those dc super into the Sciences tend to read a lot extra on their own,anyway, in my family. A text is useful for us as a framework - but not to work through. Especially not the first Module of Apologia Chemistry ( shivers) - not for us. I tried working through it myself, and I like Science, but I nearly fell asleep.
( BTW ~ I know others love Apologia so hope I don't offend, but I wanted to be truthful - and brutally honest - about our experience ).
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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alicegunther
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I don't use it. My policy toward science curriculum preparation is to call MacBeth sometiime in August for a list of books. Then I add more at the library during the year. Hands on nature study is and always will be the bulk of our science curriculum here. The children all love (and seem to really know) anything to do with science, so I know this approach works.
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Love, Alice
mother of seven!
    
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Brew yourself a cup of tea, and come for a visit!
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Oct 06 2006 at 8:15am | IP Logged
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Alice brings up an important observation.
We used Apologia Chemistry because I'm not scientifically-minded and now next to naught about Chemistry. It was also a "required" subject for graduation in the state of Louisiana if he wanted TOPS for college.
But my oldest ds has a very wide, hands-on, self-taught science curriculum under his belt. He earned it through days spent outside in the backyard, weekends spent in the woods, on the beach, at the lake. He's my very own "crocodile hunter."
Now that I think of it...I'm not sure what he took away from that Apologia book or what my oldest dd will take away from that class she's taking.
My oldest ds is now...on the job... learning way more Chemistry than he ever did from the Apologia book. He comes home and tells me all kinds of stuff and I often remark: "Ah, you've learned some Chemistry, huh." And he's excited about it. He's interested. He "gets" it.
Like MacBeth so eloquently stated: "Without meaning, the subject is lost."
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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TracyQ
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| Posted: Oct 06 2006 at 8:52am | IP Logged
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This is exactly the type of thread that is sometimes frustrating to me, only because there are so many strong opinions. NOT that any one of them is right or wrong, but that we are all moms, trying to do the right thing, and we often end up questioning ourselves and our choices as we read what others are doing.
My guess is most times, what we do choose (for our family) IS what's right (for our family).
High school is a very difficult time emotionally for the home school mom. Jake is in 11th grade now, and I was hoping the butterflies would pass by now, and thankfully, they're getting a bit lessened, but they aren't going away this time! Home schooling in elementary years, the butterflies passed much more quickly.
I keep hearing different things from different people, even in my own area, about what you should do, and what you shouldn't do, regarding curriculum, subjects, testing, etc. It's SO frustrating sometimes! I keep wanting to kick myself for things I should have done, and am thankful when I've actually done something right toward their future, and in their education.
Last year, the one thing God really impressed upon my heart in a huge way was that this is OUR journey, and that He called us to it to walk WITH us, not against us, or for us to travel the journey alone. HE is WITH us, if only I/we trust in that plan for our family. And that that journey for us will look different from other families for many reasons, such as their children are different than our children, their STATE requirements are different than our state requirements, their childrens' plans for their future will probably be different than our childrens' plans, and that their situation will be different than our situation. Their strengths may be different than my strengths (of which science is definitely NOT one of mine ), and that His purpose for their family's call to home schooling may be different than our family's is. He said to me very clearly through somone else last year that Your primary goal is not to prepare them for college, it's to prepare them for Heaven!
But part of the goal is to prepare them for college or their future in this world, whatever that call from God is, and in NY State, we have definite requirements of what needs to be taught in our home schools. While it's true that we can choose HOW to teach it (thus far), which I'm extremely grateful for, it's sometimes very difficult to get all of the requirements in, particularly in high school to prepare them should they want to go to college. For me, it's also sometimes very difficult to plan all of these courses in a CMish/literature based way. I struggle with time, energy, and quite frankly, ability.
Often times, I question, and cringe, and cry and carry on in my own mind about how I could do it better, or how I WISH I could do it better, or be more in line to what my philosophy is, but I also always know that I'm plodding along, trying to do my best, and that I'm doing it to His glory, which right now has to be my goal.
If I had one child homeschooling, things would be different. If I were teaching the same subjects to multiple kids, things would be different, etc. etc. The fact is, right now, I have an 11th grader, 9th grader (with some learning challenges), and a 6th grader. They're all using different curriculum, learning different history, science, english, math, and most other subjects as well.
Most days, I'm falling down in a heap of exhaustion by 3:00 p.m., and barely have energy to plan the next day! I know there are ways I could do it better, but actually, so far, this year has been the best start to any year so far! 
I'm not complaining. I'm so thankful to have them home every single day, especially as I've watched the news on T.V. these past few weeks! I'm thankful that God has called us to continue home schooling through high school, and I'm thankful for all we can get done, for all we learn, and for the Lord's guidance every single day as we plod along, trying to complete this beautiful journey He's called us to.
Making these choices is not an easy task for a home school mom. We often worry, and question our thoughts, and have a difficult time making decisions about what we should use or not use, do or not do, etc. We even sometimes allow ourselves to go into panic mode! It's honestly heart wrenching at times, and one of the ways Satan has his field day with us home school moms. 
But I do know that no matter what we choose, or how to go about doing it, if we truly listen to the Holy Spirit in our discernment for how we should travel on this journey of home schooling, the Lord will be faithful to guide us the way He knows best for us and our family. He'll allow us to make mistakes to learn from them, and He'll show us how to better serve Him on this journey as we trod on.
He is always faithful when we are humbly obedient to His will; in every subject, in every curriculum choice, in every decision, and in every day we travel this journey.
Thank you for letting me type this out. I needed to hear it myself, as I was again, beginning to question my decisions. You are all a blessing to me, and teach me every day to be a better home school mom. I'm thankful for each of you, and the gift you are to me as you are serving the Lord every day here on this list, and in your homes. May God's blessings be in our learning today, and every day, as we do our best to do His will!
With Love,
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Oct 06 2006 at 9:37am | IP Logged
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TracyQ wrote:
High school is a very difficult time emotionally for the home school mom. Jake is in 11th grade now, and I was hoping the butterflies would pass by now, and thankfully, they're getting a bit lessened, but they aren't going away this time! Home schooling in elementary years, the butterflies passed much more quickly.
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Tracy,
I'm not sure what grade level Pam was asking for but I was thinking earlier how different the answer to this question is during the elementary years compared to the high school years.
And, I must admit, my requirements are a lot different from what the state requires...and neither one seems to guarantee that my children will pass the required test.
My first revelation in this was signing my oldest up with STAA. I thought I would be able to select the books and curriculum and have him do most of it hands-on. Instead I was sent tests and there were certain requirements and they didn't accept some of the options that I sent to them...things that I felt were very valid for this child and the unschooling/CM/literature-style that we've grown so fond of. And it was all very different from the requirements our state had if a child opted to attend college.
So who makes the call anyway...???
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: Apologia
