| Author | |
Elizabeth
Founder
Real Learning
Joined: Jan 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5595
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 5:58am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
I've been mulling ideas of what to say and how (and where) to say it when I sit down with my ten-year-old-next-month and fill in some gaps about the facts of life. I've traded a few ideas with other moms and listend to Kimberly Hahn's new CD set (and was impressed withthe sex/chastity/marriage talk). I've re-read Alice von Hildebrand...
This morning, I read: Purity is the great gift of a lover. It says, "I loved you even before I knew you. See? I've been waiting." It sounds corny and idealistic, but its the way to true love and happiness.
from the keyboard of a college-aged blogger who is truly showing that God is calling her to a unique activism on a college campus. The whole piece is at Peace! Be Still!. Somebody did an excellent job with this topic for this girl. She "gets it."
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Christine
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 23 2006
Location: Washington
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 7:23am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I am finding that honesty and sincerity are key, sharing little stories about what has happened in my life gently over time is helping. The first time that I tried talking to my daughter, I had read a book, etc. and she left the room crying.  A few months later, after much prayer, I informally approached the facts of life again from my experiences and my daughter was smiling and happy. I speak to my daughter in little snippets, telling her only what I believe she needs to know. I have also made it clear that she can ask me anything anytime, whether it's something she is curious about or whether it is something she has heard from friends. I would much rather she came to me than to someone else. I will keep you and your daughter in my prayers.
__________________
Christine
Mommy to 4 girls, 5 boys, & 2 in God's care
Memories of a Catholic Wife and Mother
Pretty Lilla Rose
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Christine
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 23 2006
Location: Washington
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 7:29am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I just read the post that you linked to and I will be saving it for my daughters to read one day. This young lady is providing mothers and their children with a wonderful gift via her blog. May God continue to guide her.
__________________
Christine
Mommy to 4 girls, 5 boys, & 2 in God's care
Memories of a Catholic Wife and Mother
Pretty Lilla Rose
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
chicken lady
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 27 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2315
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 9:19am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks for these tips, my oldest is 10, and I need to start the talks, I feel so inadequate, I had the California public school of the early 80's talk!! You can imagine how that was!!
I have read the beforementioned books, and I picked up the American girl book "the care and keeping of you", I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on that book?
My children do not have alot of peer exposure with families that talk abotu these things and therefore with the lack of TV my dd's are extremely naive, and innocent. My concern is that dd age 10 is getting out more and physical changes are happening, and this being my first time around this talk I don't want to freak her out. Nor do I want cheesy info. or to much info. Do you all just start with her body, then wait a few years for reproduction? This is my clueless thought, I am open for advice. Also how do you talk about abortion when they have no prior knowledge of reproduction?
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Rebecca
Forum All-Star
Joined: Dec 30 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1898
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 10:13am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have some friends who have liked The Joyful Mysteries of Life but I have not seen a copy myself. I am dealing with the same thing, Elizabeth. My ds10 should have a little more background but I do feel like I don't know exactly how to go about it.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Lisbet
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2006
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2706
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 10:16am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have The Joyful Mysteries, and it seems, well, pretty 'cheesy' to me.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Rebecca
Forum All-Star
Joined: Dec 30 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1898
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 10:56am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Lisbet, does it cover the biological side of things? I am glad to have your input because I was planning to order it this month, sight unseen, based on a friend's recommendation.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Patty LeVasseur
Forum Pro
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 238
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 11:47am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Lisbet wrote:
| I have The Joyful Mysteries, and it seems, well, pretty 'cheesy' to me. |
|
|
I have this book as well. I read it myself and couldn't quite get myself to hand it to my sons to read. I guess I thought this book gave them too much information. I have tried really hard with my 14yo and 13yo boys to just answer truthfully the questions that they ask.
I also have a 10yo girl and she has "The Care and Keeping of You" and I think it has really helped her, as she has started going through these changes, to feel like she is "normal" and that it is all okay. American Girl also had a book about Boyfriends and I looked through it quickly but thought it was a little "fast" and didn't seem to really promote the right things.
__________________
Patty
mom to four blessings
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
BrendaPeter
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 11:52am | IP Logged
|
|
|
To answer your question Rebecca, yes it has the biological side of things. Personally, I would not be comfortable letting my dc read it until they were in their later teens.
I've heard good things about Listen Son &
Mother's Helper from Seton.
FWIW, Our 12-year-old has been very curious about the "mechanics" of conception for some time now. He knows that children have features from both mom & dad but he wonders how it all gets together. My husband & I have told him that one day he will learn about this beautiful mystery that comes to us from God. For now, the information would be too much for him & we're not confident that he wouldn't share it with his friends, even off-handedly. He's been fine with trusting our judgement.
Our dc are EXTREMELY innocent & I've had to be very, very careful not to be the one to destroy that innocence because of my need to explain everything. Like Christine, I try to tell them only "what they need to know." I've even gone so far as to explain things as simply as possible - for example, when my children wondered how a unmarried woman could have a child, I explained that the woman "pretended to be married." It's amazing how many of these explanations satisfy their curiosity yet maintain their innocence.
__________________
Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mom2mpr
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 16 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1550
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 12:04pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have enjoyed using Gods Design for Sex from Sonlight. I like that they stress getting married and respect the marriage covenant. We have only used the first 2 books and the first, The Story of Me, is pretty sweet and I can leave it out on ds's bookshelf. The second book, Before I Was Born, has a page that was somewhat difficult for me to read, but I did it. It was done nicely and with love but it just was one of those "growing up" minutes for a mom. He needed to hear it and while I am not sure he "got it" we will read the book occasionally to facilitate discussion. This one stays in my room because of that one page.
I have heard these books might be available at our local library-so you might be able to get them there and check them out to see if they would work for you. I am going to try when we are ready for book 3-since I only bought the first two a few years ago. They are honest about how things happen and there is some biology. Ds is starting to see how things work in nature and it seemed a good time to read book 2.
Looking forward to hearing more ideas.
Anne
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 12:13pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
BrendaPeter wrote:
To answer your question Rebecca, yes it has the biological side of things. Personally, I would not be comfortable letting my dc read it until they were in their later teens.
I've heard good things about Listen Son &
Mother's Helper from Seton. |
|
|
You can read the text online to see if it suits you.
Listen, Son
Mother's Little Helper
I scanned these a few years ago...glad it can help some people out.
My personal feelings for this book is yuck. My mom used it for me, and I thought the flowery language was way over the top, just didn't suit me. My mother tried to talk to me, and I didn't want to hear it. It made me embarrassed. Since I was young I liked having books to explain information, but this one wasn't factual enough. I appreciate the sacredness of everything, but it brings back bad memories. My mother didn't fail in teaching me, I just wasn't receptive.
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
jdostalik
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 15 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2935
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 1:30pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I remembered a similar thread on Catholic books.
From reading this thread, I ordered a book that Jenn recommended for older children called "How You Were Born" by Robert Odenwald, MD. He also wrote a book for youngers that I am going to get, as well. It is called "How God Made You." I found the first book quite easily on abebooks.com; it was very reasonably priced and my oldest dd and I have done well with it so far...we haven't finished it yet! I'm taking it prettty slowly and letting a chapter sink in before we go forward to the next one! 
__________________
God Bless,
Jennifer in TX
wife to Bill, mom to six here on earth and eight in heaven.
Let the Little Ones Come
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Sarah
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 17 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1624
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 1:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I personally think this sort of info should just unfold over time, much as you ladies have said.
There was a wise mother who told me that you should always ask your child, "What do you mean by that?" BEFORE you give them more info than their asking for.
I saw a humorous example in the newspaper a while back when a child asked his mother, "Where did I come from?" She wisely asked him, "What do you mean?" And he answered, "Like, am I from Texas, California. . . where?" 
Anyway, I remember this and often you can give an appropriate truthful answer to a child who may not be needing as much info as you think.
As Brenda said above, my kids are innocent and I try to also give little tidbits of info as it comes up.
However, in their teens (maybe earlier for some) there does come a time when the facts are laid out in a loving way. As Jenn said, a book was better for me than face to face with my Mom. I got sick to my stomach when she tried to explain it to me with all the facts at a the age of 7 or 8. She still brings it up to me that I ruined my brother's innocence by telling him everything when he was five. . .I don't remember that, but she also gave me more information than I was able to keep to myself! I was a little girl and didn't know better.
__________________
Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
StephanieA
Forum Pro
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 394
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 5:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
<<<[QUOTE=Sarah] I personally think this sort of info should just unfold over time, much as you ladies have said.
There was a wise mother who told me that you should always ask your child, "What do you mean by that?" BEFORE you give them more info than their asking for.>>>
I have approached this with my 3 boys (19, 17, 14) and my 12 year old daughter in this way. When they ask in a serious way and need the info, I provide it to them. My daughter never asked about menstration, but a 15 minute talk in the car on the way to town provided this opportunity several weeks ago. What really needs to be stressed in the teen years is the virtues, not the mechanics of dating, marriage, etc. for most children.
I haven't talked to my 19 year old son about the very specifics of chastity with a girl yet, because he isn't dating. (Not that we don't have girls calling here for him Why go into all this when, at this point, it isn't even as issue of "how far to go before it's a sin type of thing?" Yes, he goes to a secular college and last week was STD week. He knows what all this is. But what he really needs is solid catechesis on the virtues. I have my kids, junior and senior years, read these types of books for their religion: "Boys to Men: Transforming Power of Virtue" by Tim Gray; "The Christian Virtues" by Sheedy - used by University of Notre Dame for years in their required freshmen religion classes (circa 1950); Catholic Talks for Young Men/Young Women by Little Flowers Family. ( I liked Young Men better than Young Women.) Man, The Saint By Loidi - reprint from Roman Catholic Books, The Catholic Book of Character and Success by Garesche - reprint Sophia Press. Also we use sections of any older Moral Theology books used in Catholic high school and colleges (mostly) from the 1940s-early 1960's. They are no nonsense and say what the church has always taught about chastity.
Parts of "Head of the Family" by Clayton Barbeau (Sophia reprint) is also good for young adult men or late teens - most chapters (or women to understand what to look for in a good husband) or for your husband.
I agree with the innocence statements. I don't think most kids need this detailed info provided in many chastity programs or books. I have told my oldest son that these urges he has to be with a girl are certainly normal and absolutely essential as humans. But we have to look at the end reason. The end reason is intimacy in marriage. I asked him, "Would you want to know that your future wife was kissing, etc. intimately with another person?" Answer: Heck, no. My answer, "Then remember that and keep yourself as chaste as you want your future spouse to have been."
Then there is the talk a dad gave his son when he was courting/dating his future spouse:
Son, remember what we spoke about as far as inappropriate physical intimacy outside of marriage.
Yeah, Dad. I wouldn't do anything with her. I don't even think about it.
Really, son! Is she that undesirable and ugly? Then you have a real problem! You had better quit dating her right away.
I had to chuckle to myself about this one, because it shows my guys that physical attraction is necessary in a marital relationship, but outside marriage, to act upon it is inappropriate.
Plus, part of my real beef with some of the chastity books is that they are devoid of the word: mortal sin.
They talk about devastation after a break up. The feelings of emptiness after losing your virginity, about getting your "virginity back", etc. But they lack the fact that pursuing physical contact outside of marriage can very well be a mortal sin. Guys are especially vulnerable.
Former popes have spoken on the necessity of sex ed with many cautions. Many of the books put out by Catholic publishers on chastity hardly qualify, imo. St. Thomas says that true love wants what is best for the other. We marry, because we want to help that other person get to heaven. Is any inappropriate physical contact outside of marriage, love? IE. what is best for the other person? Is this helping that person attain his/her everlasting reward? Or is it providing a temptation to this person?
Tempting a person is not love.
These are questions that should be brought up to our older teens/young adults as they begin dating. The physical components take 15 minutes from the encylopedia  or I simply explained it to my oldest when he asked at 16 or 17 - now exactly how does this happen?
Blessings,
Stephanie
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stefoodie
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 17 2005
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8457
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 5:43pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Question: if you've decided to wait for them to ask, and they don't (this is a hypothetical question because my 4 kids have all varied in what age they started asking questions and what kind of questions they asked) -- is there a certain age where they should have ALL the information? i'm thinking sometime before college. but i worry too that by that time someone else (a peer) has gotten to them and they're already mis-informed. still learning our way through this. i tried parts of Mother's Helper two years ago having found it through CCM, but it just felt way too weird and unnatural. i'm thinking of getting the book Jenn recommended, and Kimberly Hahn's CD.
__________________
stef
mom to five
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 5:54pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I've really like Popcak's "Beyond the Birds and the Bees" it's not so much telling about physical changes as it is about talking about sexuality.. And he ties a lot of things together with some honest though vague answers that you can use. And helps give some idea on when is a good time to provide information. He's more down to earth.. too much so for some.. but what he suggests is very much in line with Church teaching and protecting the innocense of the children.
now I haven't needed it much at this point..
What I do need is something to help with teaching about physical changes.. that's coming up all to quickly.
But I find the way he talks about things feel more natural to me than some others.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
guitarnan
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Maryland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10883
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 9:52pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
How strange. I read this thread, and today my daughter (8) starts asking questions. Guess I needed this thread, right?!
I am a fan of the matter-of-fact, small-bits-of-info approach. Usually, my children want the answer to their specific question, not a detailed explanation of all things related to pregnancy.
We have been reading "Angel in the Waters" this week, so I used the book's illustrations as a starting point for my answer today.
I agree with Christine, it's much better to give a little information at a time. I try very hard to make sure my child understands the facts I've just discussed, and ask if he/she has more questions (they ususally don't).
Thanks for the extremely timely thread!
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Karen E.
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 27 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1161
|
| Posted: Sept 28 2006 at 10:00pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
For whatever help it is to anyone:
I used Joyful Mysteries a few years back, just to get a couple of idea for myself. I never used it directly with the kids. Just not quite the right tone for us, but it did give me a couple of good phrases to work with.
We've used the American Girl "Care and Keeping of You" book, but parts of that were too graphic for my taste. We just paperclip those pages together, and the girls don't explore them. For some reason, my kids are very good about not looking at things that I've said are "too much" ... they seem to understand the idea that ugly pictures can be difficult to erase from one's mind, so they are grateful for the guidance. The AG book was really helpful to my oldest daughter, for some of the basics of growing and changing. We had already talked about periods long before she got one, but she loved the book for its info on stuff like hygiene, emotional changes, things like that.
Like many of you, I've always answered the questions that have come up naturally, and have made sure I knew *what* question was being asked. There's still a lot of innocence around here, too, and I don't want to take that away prematurely. Just discussing things has always been the method here, and it's working pretty well so far.
In other words, I just never shut up.
__________________
God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
saintanneshs
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 15 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 591
|
| Posted: Sept 29 2006 at 7:43am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Elizabeth,
I just wanted to wish you a beautiful experience sharing "the talk" with your daughter. My mom chose to share it with me when I was 10 and although the information was a bit much for me to grasp (when you go from absolutely no facts to all the facts you tend to get things confused ), what I remember most was how touched my mom was to be able to share the beautiful mystery of life with me. She took me out to breakfast, just the two of us, to a quiet little donut shop which was almost empty (got to skip school that morning which we NEVER did ). Although I confused the details a bit, my mom's message of saving this kind of love for when you are married made an indelible mark on my soul. Her quiet tears of joy when she explained how this beautiful love brought about a baby...they created a bond between us. I get choked up just reminiscing about it. The world treats the subject so casually, but in all my teenage and college years I knew from my mother's presentation of the topic that this was no casual subject, but one to be treated with reverence. My mother NEVER cries (so unlike me!! ) so I knew there was something wonderful and mysterious in what she was saying. I wanted more than anything to understand it and I knew that if I didn't "wait" for marriage I never would.
I will never forget that special day and I feel such sadness for girls who tell me that they never shared that experience with their mothers, or that "the talk" was all about the science of reproduction. I kinda' feel like there's plenty of time for the science once you get across the bigger picture of chastity and love within a marriage. It sounds like you've already got that ready to pass on (from your first post)!!
May your talk be a day for you and your 10yo to cherish always, and may it be one more experience for you both to treasure. 
__________________
Kristine
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Karen E.
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 27 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1161
|
| Posted: Sept 29 2006 at 7:57am | IP Logged
|
|
|
saintanneshs wrote:
I will never forget that special day and I feel such sadness for girls who tell me that they never shared that experience with their mothers, or that "the talk" was all about the science of reproduction. I kinda' feel like there's plenty of time for the science once you get across the bigger picture of chastity and love within a marriage. |
|
|
How beautiful, Kristine. Yes, conveying the sacredness is the foundation of it all ....
__________________
God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: "The talk"
