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humanaevitae
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| Posted: July 23 2006 at 5:04pm | IP Logged
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I am concerned about my 9yo son. Because of life he is still in a 3rd grade math book. He seems to understand equations fine but doesn't have basic facts memorized. Instead he seems to use strategies even for facts that should have been memorized by now (just through sheer repetition!) For example, when given the simple equation 11-3= he will minus 3 from 10 to get 7 and then 1 to get 8. It took me awhile to even understand his thinking as I hadn't even thought of that. "His way" seems like a lot more work and his drill speed is terrible, especially in subtration. He hates it when I make him go back to easy problems such as this but I feel like he needs to memorize the facts.
He is my oldest and I have no clue how to proceed as I don't know what direction I should turn. I'm really concerned about how long it takes him to solve equations.
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Nicole-Zane 10, Elizabeth 7, Xavier 4, and John Patrick 2
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Taffy
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| Posted: July 23 2006 at 7:20pm | IP Logged
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He may be slow with solving basic equations but I must admit that I'm impressed with his use of logic! 
My oldest is 9 and still having trouble with some basic concepts but that is mostly due to his language difficulties (he's autistic). He had this habit of always using his fingers for solving addition/subtraction questions. He started it while attending school and I let him keep it. That was a mistake. He used his fingers ALL THE TIME - even for simple equations that he should know easily (e.g. 1+2=3). It was exasperating!
We'd already been doing daily drills for addition and subtraction using flashcards. I started to require that he answer the question within 10 seconds. If it wasn't answered (because he was too busy counting his fingers), I would make my "wrong" noise (we get a bit silly around here ) and move it to the back of the pile to answer at the end. My son is a bit of a perfectionist so this was enough motivation for him. I also had him sit on his hands so that he couldn't use his fingers.
I don't know if this is helpful or not. While you do want him to have these facts more or less memorized (it makes upper level math SO much easier), it sounds like his grasp of the concept may be good.
Hope to have helped...
Taffy
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Susan
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: July 23 2006 at 8:27pm | IP Logged
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My ds is about to turn 11 and he is not a good memorizer. He has all his addition and subtraction, but multiplication trips him up every time. He has to use strategies.
I am not worried at all because I am the same way and though it slowed me down at first, I eventually learned them all (except 6's, those still get me  ). I also am not worried because conceptually he is way ahead of the game. He sees HOW to solve very complicated problems very quickly and it amazes me sometimes how his mind works. It just takes him awhile to actually solve them! I figure we all have our strengths and weaknesses and we work with what God gave us.
It sounds like your ds may have his strengths in problem-solving as well. Look at it as a blessing because while others are still puzzling over how to solve a problem, ds will be working away at solving it!
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Theresa
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Erin
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| Posted: July 24 2006 at 2:54am | IP Logged
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humanaevitae wrote:
| For example, when given the simple equation 11-3= he will minus 3 from 10 to get 7 and then 1 to get 8. It took me awhile to even understand his thinking as I hadn't even thought of that. |
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Nicole,
I would be very pleased with this. He is playing with numbers which is very important. Memorising is one method but it has its limitations. What your ds is doing is far better as he is developing an understanding of numbers, how they all inter-relate with one another. Perhaps you don't understand his logic because that is not the way you think.
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Erin
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marihalojen
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| Posted: July 24 2006 at 8:00am | IP Logged
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humanaevitae wrote:
| For example, when given the simple equation 11-3= he will minus 3 from 10 to get 7 and then 1 to get 8. |
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This is one of the strategies I taught in 4th grade Public School. 
Taffy wrote:
| He had this habit of always using his fingers for solving addition/subtraction questions. He started it while attending school. |
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In 2nd grade addition kids were taught to make a fist and smack their heads above the ear saying 'five, six, seven, eight' holding up additional fingers for each number. It really freaked me out the first time looking over this sea of children all simultaniously whacking their heads and shout counting.  
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The Mari Hal-O-Jen
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: July 24 2006 at 8:22am | IP Logged
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I also wanted to comment on the use of fingers. One reason this may be happening and why not to worry:
It could be just a habit or muscle memory, like when I am thinking of a phone number I will sometimes move my fingers in a pattern as if I am dialing the number. It helps me remember it. Could be that ds is a kinesthetic learner and just needs that movement to access his memory of the facts. We all use different techniques to access memories, auditory learners will often sing or chant memories (common with the alphabet- we will sing the song in our head to remember alphabet order) and grammar rules (how many times does "I before e..." run through your head when you are trying to spell neighbor)  visual learners will "see" words for spelling or even draw them with fingers in the air, and smells are actually powerful memory triggers which research is just now starting to apply to educational uses.
So...all this to say don't worry about the fingers. They are the ultimate manipulative!
Oh, I wanted to add that research also shows that we often access memories by the same route that we learned them, so if ds learned to add using his fingers, it would be very natural for him to be using the fingers to access the memories.
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Theresa
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Taffy
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Theresa,
You're probably right about the reasons behind my son using his fingers to add and subtract and I do let him do this when he's working on math assignments. But I want him to move away from it which is why I haven't been allowing it during our flashcard drills. When we get to higher math, he will have a much easier time of it if he doesn't have to devote so much time to figuring out simple addition and subtraction. This frees up space for him to understand and use the concepts he's learning. He has such difficulties in manipulating the language in math that I'd like him to have less need to focus on the answers to simple algorithms.
It also helps him finish his math faster which is nice. It's a personal thing, I guess. Dh is a math teacher and he agrees about the finger use not being a big deal - but he does think that these facts should be memorized as it does make things easier later on.
So that's my goal - he can se the finger counting when solving problems on his assignments, but he needs to be able to to do it without fingers when asked.
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Susan
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humanaevitae
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| Posted: July 25 2006 at 3:32pm | IP Logged
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I'm still not entirely convinced but I guess I won't make him start over using a 1st gr math bk. We'll continue on but I will be making sure drills are a daily occurance.
Can anyone recommend a computer game or electronic game that drills math facts? Is there any you didn't like?
Thanks
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Nicole-Zane 10, Elizabeth 7, Xavier 4, and John Patrick 2
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ALmom
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Nicole,
How about going along in math and just doing things like playing concentration which require visual memory. Or the games like "We're going on a picnic and everyone has to add an item at the end of repeating everyone else's. (auditory memory)
I'm not saying your dc has a visual/auditory memory difficulty or anything (mine did so we have a whole arsenal of things to do to improve visual memory). But it does sound like math is not the problem - it is the memorization. If he can do those kinds of games, then he'll eventually learn the facts from sheer repetition once he is finished playing with numbers. And you never lose anything in playing the games - so if he needs just a little practice with memory work, you have it.
Just an idea. Don't belabor the point, just have fun with it. Concentration is a card game most of us played over and over as children and the other game is a great way to keep dc interested and occupied during a long car ride. It is a common ice breaker at parties, etc.
Janet
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TracyQ
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Nicole,
One of the things I've been most happy spending money on has been Quarter Mile Math. I bought it here:
Timberdoodle
I found it cheaper here:
Smart Kids Software
I've never ordered from there before though. You can type it into a google search too, I'm sure.
Here are some reviews:
Review of QMM
Cathy Duffy's review
We bought the BUNDLE when the kids were younger, and this is taking us clear into their high school years, as it has algebraic equations too.
It's been one of the best purchases for our homeschool ever, has helped them learn their math facts while looking forward to it, and has been a purchase we've never ever regretted, unlike so many others!
I hope this helps!
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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JodieLyn
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using the 10's to figure out problems like that.. is very helpful. It's actually taught in singapore math.
And I use tricks like that myself..
like figuring the tip in a resturant.. 15% is a pain to multiply out in your head.. 10% is easy.. half of 10% is easy and then you just add those two togther.
memorizing your math facts is seperate.. and yes it does help with speed but being able to juggle the numbers like he's doing will be very helpful as well.
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marihalojen
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JodieLyn wrote:
like figuring the tip in a resturant.. 15% is a pain to multiply out in your head.. 10% is easy.. half of 10% is easy and then you just add those two togther. |
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My new phone has a tip calculator - hurray! Before that (locally, anyhow) I figured out that the tax was about half of what the tip should be, so just double the tax on the receipt and you're set!
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~Jennifer
Mother to Mariannna, age 13
The Mari Hal-O-Jen
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JodieLyn
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There's no tax in OR
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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Mama Moon
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Nicole
I did the same as a child and I still do. I also got terrible maths results in easy exam papers but from time to time was first in difficult ones (to the horror of my maths teachers!)
I am very gifted musically - many believe this and a mathematical mind are linked. In aptitude tests I score way up at the top on spatial logic stuff.
Finally at university I did a masters in engineering - well you need a certain level of maths for that!
All that I am certain of now is that the maths courses I did were not right for my logic.
It may take time for you to find something that works (maybe even look at higher grades - it might spark a real interest in the beauty of mathematics in your ds - instead of having to do a lower grade list of sums), but I would search with the attitude that it is the methods that are not right and that your ds has got real maths potential ready to burst out.
Don't ask me how I do my multiplications! I don't know them off by heart but I can get answers out quickly!
Good luck!
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Mama Moon
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4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: I am concerned...would you be?
