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Dawnie
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Does anyone else have a dh who works second shift (from 2pm-11pm and overtime until 3am some nights)? He's waiting for an opening on 1st shift, but who knows when that will happen. I'm working on developing a schedule for next year. I really want to do school in the morning, but that would require me getting up at 7am, which is hard anyway b/c I'm not a morning person, and even harder b/c dh and I are often up until past midnight. I've tried going to bed earlier, but then we have NO time alone together. Oh, and I'm pregnant. 
I've got to have time to rest in the afternoon, so if we don't do school in the morning, that leaves late afternoon and evening for it. Are there disadvantages to having structured schooling in the late afternoon/evenings instead of mornings? Or does it just depend on the family and the kids? Does anyone else have experience w/ homeschooling while dh is working second shift?
Dawn
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Elizabeth
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My dh works at home, but usually, it's second shift hours, partially because he's often in conference with folks on the west coast and partially because if he's on location, it's a late night. Adn...partially because he's a night owl  . I have found that it doesn't work to slide all the school stuff to the afternoon because it invariably bumps into neighborhood children arriving home and being free and wanting to play and it also collides with typical "afterschool" activities like ballet and soccer. If you don't live in a neighborhood and you don't do those extracurriculars (how lucky you are!), then I don't see a problem. I am a morning person, though dh is a night owl. We carve out alone time in the middle of the day, before he's really in the midst of work and when the kids are ready to take an outdoor break or such.
You DO have some scheduling challenges here, Dawn. HOpefully you'll get some great advice.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Erin
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Dawnie,
As your Mary Beth is still only 7, late afternoon/evenings could still work for you. When my oldest was six we use to do a lot of her learning at that time as she came 'alive' at night back then. It was all lovely and natural and informal, much discussions took place at this time.
Now it wouldn't work as I no longer have the energy by afternoon/evenings and the number of children/logistics wouldn't work that way anymore. Much of the reasons Elizabeth states also go for us so that contributes to the logistics.
Why don't you try it for a fortnight and see how it goes?
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momwise
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Dawn,
Why would you have to get up at 7a.m? Judging by the ages of your children you should be able to get by with just a couple of hours or less of structured school work. That could take place from 11-12--lunch--1-2 or something like that.
My dh worked swings for awhile then graveyard (that was a literal nightmare).
I loved the swing schedule. We would do stuff as a family or the dc could be with dad (he slept until 8-9), then eat a meal together at either breakfast or lunch. Since there usually was no need to cook a big evening meal, that left lots and lots of time for reading in the evenings before bed. This is a great time for those hands on projects and learning games also. That could be the bulk of your school if you have the energy that time of day. Then I had lots of quiet time later at night with all the younger dc in bed and many nights I waited up for dh.
Now graveyards are different. Dc had to be quiet all day. Dh was tired but couldn't get enought sleep. Even if he slept all morning he had to go for a nap after dinner. Then all the dc had to be quiet again. Oh never again 
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Dawnie
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momwise wrote:
Dawn,
Why would you have to get up at 7a.m? |
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Well, 45 minutes for showering, getting dressed, and a little prayer time, then breakfast w/ my oldest dd, so we can be in school by 8:30. Then, for what I have planned for next year, 3-3 1/2 hours of "school" time. This includes some of the less structured stuff. That way, we're done by lunch time. After lunch, we clean up, have some family prayer time, dad goes to work, then me and the littles take naps! I would need less time if I left out some of the "non-core" subjects, but I feel like I'm short-changing my dd when I do that. I want to have the nature study, the neat hands-on geography study, the hands-on First Communion prep, lots of read-aloud time...maybe it's unrealistic considering that we're having a new baby in the middle of it all. That's why I'm here! To try to come up w/ a REALISTIC schedule! What I have looks great on paper, but I feel like I'm trying to live a 1st shift life all by myself! We're doing CHC's 2nd grade next year, btw. Maybe I just need to experiment until I find a rhythm that works. I tried all last year to *make* us fit into a "structured schoool in the mornings" kind of schedule, with very little success.
The reason I keep trying to schedule things so I'm done before lunch is b/c I'm under the impression that it's better to have "structured" schooling in the morning so that the children are free to play and follow their own interests in the afternoon. Is there something intrinsically better about studying in the morning? Could the kids play in the morning instead of the afternoon?
momwise wrote:
| Now graveyards are different. Dc had to be quiet all day. Dh was tired but couldn't get enought sleep. Even if he slept all morning he had to go for a nap after dinner. Then all the dc had to be quiet again. Oh never again |
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So you're saying 3rd shift (11pm-7am) wouldn't be any better? I'm glad to know that, b/c we've actually been considering it...he could switch to 3rd shift easily.
Is swing shift the same as 2nd shift? 2nd shift is 2:30pm-11pm.
Dawn
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momwise
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Yes, swing shift is 2nd shift. I hear what you're saying about getting plenty of time in the morning to prepare. I personally hate to get up after 6:30 because I have to jump right in to everything.
But if you're not a morning person and dh is home after midnight, you could start by 10:00 and still get a couple of hours in by lunch. I still think evening is a great time for a lot of the reading and fun stuff. At their ages, your dc don't have a whole lot of reason to do all their work first thing in the morning, as opposed to afternoons. OTOH, if dh is helpful with the school work you want to accomplish he could do a lot of it in the mornings when the baby first arrives.
Here is what you need to consider before taking 3rd shifts: Does your dh sleep deeply? Is your room close to the main area of the house where the dc will be most of the time? Will there be a seperate place for the baby to nap during the day? It could work; it just didn't for us since my dh is a light sleeper and there really was nowhere in the house to go where you couldn't hear 6 dc doing normal things, like going in and out of the front door.
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Dawnie
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momwise wrote:
| But if you're not a morning person and dh is home after midnight, you could start by 10:00 and still get a couple of hours in by lunch. I still think evening is a great time for a lot of the reading and fun stuff. At their ages, your dc don't have a whole lot of reason to do all their work first thing in the morning, as opposed to afternoons. |
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Yes, I've been thinking about splitting things up somewhat. The more I think about it, I think it will be more realistic and easier to stick to if we just plan on starting later in the morning. We could do all the really formal learning before lunch and save the read-alouds and hands-on projects for late afternoon/evening. By nature, I like to start something and keep going until I finish it, but it doesn't look like "getting it all done at one time" will work right now. I've noticed that the more children we have, the more I have to be willing to leave things unfinished and come back to them at another time... Back to the drawing board!
momwise wrote:
| OTOH, if dh is helpful with the school work you want to accomplish he could do a lot of it in the mornings when the baby first arrives. |
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Yes, I'm actually planning on this--that's why the schedule is so important. That way he (or maybe grandma)can simply look at my lesson plans and my schedule and take over for a week or two.
DH is a heavy sleeper, but our bedroom is close to our daughter's bedroom and the living room. I'm afraid he still wouldn't sleep that well, just b/c our bodies are "programmed" to sleep at night. I think we'll do better just to tough it out until there's an opening on first shift. Then I can go back to my project of making myself into a morning person.
Thanks for your input, Gwen.
Dawn
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momwise
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I just thought of another recent scheduling innovation here at our home. Since ds received a Divinity game for his birthday we have been playing after arriving home from Wed. morning Mass; about 9-9:30 a.m. That and mass comprise our catechesis for the day.
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I know 2nd shift all too well, Dawnie. We have been married 17 years and my husband has worked 2nd for about 13 of those. Besides juggling the school schedule, I often found myself unable to attend evening functions like mother's night out or special events because it was impossible to take everyone out.
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I forgot to say, we would eat "dinner" around 7, then proceed to clean, etc. By eating light, dinner was over within 20-25 minutes.
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Bookswithtea
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Dawnie wrote:
Well, 45 minutes for showering, getting dressed, and a little prayer time, then breakfast w/ my oldest dd, so we can be in school by 8:30. Then, for what I have planned for next year, 3-3 1/2 hours of "school" time. This includes some of the less structured stuff. That way, we're done by lunch time. After lunch, we clean up, have some family prayer time, dad goes to work, then me and the littles take naps! I would need less time if I left out some of the "non-core" subjects, but I feel like I'm short-changing my dd when I do that. I want to have the nature study, the neat hands-on geography study, the hands-on First Communion prep, lots of read-aloud time...maybe it's unrealistic considering that we're having a new baby in the middle of it all. That's why I'm here! To try to come up w/ a REALISTIC schedule! What I have looks great on paper, but I feel like I'm trying to live a 1st shift life all by myself! We're doing CHC's 2nd grade next year, btw. Maybe I just need to experiment until I find a rhythm that works. I tried all last year to *make* us fit into a "structured schoool in the mornings" kind of schedule, with very little success.
The reason I keep trying to schedule things so I'm done before lunch is b/c I'm under the impression that it's better to have "structured" schooling in the morning so that the children are free to play and follow their own interests in the afternoon. Is there something intrinsically better about studying in the morning? Could the kids play in the morning instead of the afternoon? |
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My dh has worked swing shifts permanently for years and now works a rotating shift. Graveyard shifts (3rd) are a nightmare. Dh sleeps with ear plugs and I spend the day saying, "Shhhhhhh!!! Daddy's asleep!" Its not fun for any of us.
Swingshift can be wonderful! My favorite benefit is making dinner at lunchtime and not having the 4:00 "what am I going to make for dinner" blues!
When my children were your ages I never aimed for 3 hrs of school. We started around 9ish, I think, and were done by 11 so I could start our dinner at lunchtime. Read alouds can always be done in the afternoon/evenings as long as the baby cooperates.
Now that my children are older, we have found that we can't work around dad's schedule as much. I can't pull off dinner at noon and get enough school done to still have that nap/quiet time in the afternoon (essential for our family). We don't work around his swing shift anymore. He works around our school schedule. But that was a joint decision that we discussed when my oldest turned 11, I think.
I would recommend knocking one hour off your school work so you can get up a bit later (especially with a baby coming!) and finding lots of easy casserole type recipes for dinners...maybe even look into once a month cooking?
Fwiw, I do understand wanting to be done by noonish and making that a high priority. Because I do a lot of the sole parenting in the evenings when I am tired (and babies and toddlers are tired and cranky too at this hour), I need school to be done early. I just can't get laundry and other mommy type jobs done if we start later and school till 2:30ish.
For the last 2 yrs, we have all gotten up at 7am and started school at 8:30, just like you listed (and I am naturally a night owl, not a morning person). I've got more schooling to accomplish this year and I don't like feeling like we are rushing things. It recently dawned on me that I am going to have to get up at 6:30 this Fall (kids still up at 7) so that we can have breakfast at 7:30 and start at 8.  I cannot tell you how much I am NOT looking forward to a 6:30 rising, but I know from experience that for us, I need to be done with formal teaching early. My older 2 complete their last few independent type things after lunch, while I am cleaning up. I can oversee and check work in the afternoon. But I just can't make school my #1 priority in the afternoon. And honestly, the routine of lunch, quiet time (oldest two completing work and then having their free alone time) and naps, then snack and free afternoons has been something we all look forward to. I am not messing with it until I am forced to. 
hope this helps!
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AnaB
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When my husband was working that shift (getting home more like 1:30am from the commute), I found that I did best getting up around 7:30am (I'm a morning person). I would give the children their breakfast and do a load of laundry and unload the dishes.
Maybe you could have the children eat breakfast, work on some chores, and do some of the independent work or let them play while you get the morning going and work on lunch plans (making that the family meal). I would save read alouds for the afternoon during the younger ones' nap time.
I used to serve a simple dinner early and then have the kids in bed early (for my sanity) and I would stop all housework at 8pm. At that time I watched tv or read (we don't do tv anymore), and I would sleep on the couch till dh got home. THen when he got home we would talk, sometimes over some herbal tea and go to bed.
I tried to let dh be as much a part of the day during the mornings as possible (reading to them, helping them). Breakfast was really loose, everyone grabbing a bowl of cereal or cereal bar. Lunch was the family meal (letting dh take leftovers for his dinner). I had to make an earlier bed time for the children for my sanity. We tried to take walks or go to the park after our early dinner to get them tired. Often my dh got home closer to 3am and that would affect his involvement in the morning. Actually, it was during this season that my house was the most under control. That was before I got the internet too.
But after dh worked the night shift for years, the 2nd shift was wonderful. Please do pray about how much and what type of schooling you're doing. I really believe that when we're doing things according to God's plan for us our yoke will be easy and burden light. If it's not, then I'm wearing somebody else's yoke, whether it's a curriculum company's yoke, or my unrealistic expectations (especially when I'm spending too much time looking at what others are doing). Pray about what's absolutely necessary considering your dh's schedule, your energy level, having a newborn, etc... How could you streamline your schooling? What is God really requiring of you during this time? Also, if you have to become a super grumpy mom to get all that's on your list done, then something needs to be dropped. I think our children learn more from a joyful mom (sweet speech promotes learning--Proverbs), than from a grumpy mom with great curriculum.
All this is what I'm working through and praying for myself! I pray for more grace, too! I need it!
Hope this is helpful!
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Dawnie
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threesilofarm wrote:
| Is your husband a printer by any chance? |
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No, he's a police dispatcher at 911.
bookswithtea wrote:
| Fwiw, I do understand wanting to be done by noonish and making that a high priority. Because I do a lot of the sole parenting in the evenings when I am tired (and babies and toddlers are tired and cranky too at this hour), I need school to be done early. I just can't get laundry and other mommy type jobs done if we start later and school till 2:30ish. |
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Yes, that's exactly what I struggle with. Trying to do all the before bed stuff and finishing the chores completely by myself.
bookswithtea wrote:
| (and I am naturally a night owl, not a morning person) |
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Me, too! I'm so jealous of morning people... Seriously, that makes your input even more valuable to me. So, homeschooling *can* work on a 2nd shift schedule w/ a night owl-type mom!
AnaB wrote:
| Please do pray about how much and what type of schooling you're doing. I really believe that when we're doing things according to God's plan for us our yoke will be easy and burden light. If it's not, then I'm wearing somebody else's yoke, whether it's a curriculum company's yoke, or my unrealistic expectations (especially when I'm spending too much time looking at what others are doing)...Also, if you have to become a super grumpy mom to get all that's on your list done, then something needs to be dropped. I think our children learn more from a joyful mom (sweet speech promotes learning--Proverbs), than from a grumpy mom with great curriculum. |
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Ana, there is so much wisdom here. Thank you for reminding me to pray. You are so right--I tend to be over-ambitious in EVERYTHING and then end up really grumpy b/c there's not enough time or I don't have enough energy to get it all done. Thank you for pointing out that my children will learn more from me if I'm joyful and sweet...
You've all given me a lot to think and pray about as I continue planning. Thank you SO much for the 2nd shift perspective. I knew there must be others out there!
Dawn
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Elizabeth
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bookswithtea wrote:
| Fwiw, I do understand wanting to be done by noonish and making that a high priority. Because I do a lot of the sole parenting in the evenings when I am tired (and babies and toddlers are tired and cranky too at this hour), I need school to be done early. I just can't get laundry and other mommy type jobs done if we start later and school till 2:30ish. |
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THIS is my toughest thing, too. My husband doesn't work second shift; he's just NEVER home (and yes, I am whining.). But the evening thing is really hard. I do read-alouds then and wouldn't trade it for the world. Now matter how tired I am, I cherish bedtime. But every organized mom I know who has a pretty clean house does this THING at night after the kids are in bed. She goes through and picks up and tidies and leaves off for bed feeling finished. I collapse. I can't help it. It's not just a pregnant thing. I read to them and then I'm toast. Done.
The logical thing seems to move that tidy-alone time to early morning, but the slightest movement on my part gets the whole house moving in the morning...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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momwise
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Dawnie wrote:
| No, he's a police dispatcher at 911. |
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That's what my oldest son does. Come to think of it, he's always worked 2nd shift also, but he has to work 4 10/hrs. Oh well, it sure beats 3rd shift!
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Dawnie
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momwise wrote:
Dawnie wrote:
| No, he's a police dispatcher at 911. |
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That's what my oldest son does. Come to think of it, he's always worked 2nd shift also, but he has to work 4 10/hrs. Oh well, it sure beats 3rd shift! |
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My dh has to work 12-hour shifts at times. Then I feel like I might as well be a single mom. Today he was paged in early--he left before 10am and he won't be home until about 11:30pm...<groan>
Dawn
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Bookswithtea
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Elizabeth wrote:
THIS is my toughest thing, too. My husband doesn't work second shift; he's just NEVER home (and yes, I am whining.). But the evening thing is really hard. I do read-alouds then and wouldn't trade it for the world. Now matter how tired I am, I cherish bedtime. But every organized mom I know who has a pretty clean house does this THING at night after the kids are in bed. She goes through and picks up and tidies and leaves off for bed feeling finished. I collapse. I can't help it. It's not just a pregnant thing. I read to them and then I'm toast. Done.
The logical thing seems to move that tidy-alone time to early morning, but the slightest movement on my part gets the whole house moving in the morning... |
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Re: that "tidy" thing...
We do afternoon chores and some of the baths before dinner and the rest of the clean up and showers after dinner. We eat around 6ish (I'm not good yet at a routine time for dinner). I do that final "tidy up" thing around 7:30 or 8pm. There is NO WAY I could do it later in the evening. I am toast by 8pm. I'm not sure what time read alouds are at your house, but what if you all had a tidy up time right before the reading?
We've had a few years with babies/toddlers and no daddy to help so nighttime read alouds just don't happen here. I do them during the day. Silent reading and audiobooks are more commonly used here during the traditional read aloud time. I'm thinking about trying again for a nighttime read aloud just when Dh is on day shift. Its not perfect but its better than nothing, right? Sigh...
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Topic: Homeschooling and Second-Shift
