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StephanieA
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This last topic and spurred me to ask this question which I struggle with right now. Namely, how much do you expect your older teens (15+) to do around the house?
Elizabeth stated that her house is not a boarding home. This is exactly how I feel. But I don't think I am implementing my ideas very well.
This is what my teens boys do: their own laundry, the lawn, and the older tow are SUPPOSE to do dishes once a week for the entire day...although this rarely happens. The younger teen (14) has dishes 2 days a week alone which he does do, but he doesn't yet do his own laundry. They pay for college expenses, clothes that they want but don't need, personal entertainment, cell phone for college son. They mow their violin teacher's lawn and the money goes for strings, rosin, books, etc.
I pay for everything else, including gas and insurance and all high school expenses, dual-enrollment classes, etc.
Should I demand that they do the dishes (even though the oldest isn't even here much except for the evening meal?)
Or what else am I missing? The attitude to do some vacuuming, running around for me, etc. is so poor that I am sickened by it.
I was the oldest of 9 kids and couldn't wait to leave for college. My mother had an endless list of things for me to do everyday after school although I had a 16-20 hour job that paid for some of my education expenses, gas, car, etc. I literally had NO time for myself. In college, I was in HOG heaven. I had more time than I knew what to do with. So I joined the basketball and soccer teams (a dream of mine in high school - but my parent's wouldn't have ever let me...too much work to do at home.) I want my kids to want to come home, be at home. I didn't. I loved my family VERY much, but I dreaded the workload.
Meanwhile, my husband still brought his laundry home for his mother to do while he was out-of-town auditing 
I was determined not to saddle a daughter-in-law with a guy that didn't know how to turn on a machine. (Although in my husband's defense, he really helps out around here when I need him.)
I know there has to be a middle ground...I just can't seem to find it and keep the peace.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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Willa
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My older teens help with the weekly housecleaning, do their share of the dinnertime clean-up and pitch in for the "big" projects around here like stacking firewood and cleaning up the 2-acre "yard".
16yo daughter does all the dishes except pots and pans.
17yo boy does trash, sweeps kitchen and carries laundry and boxes upstairs.
The weekly jobs are on a rotation so they do different jobs on different weeks.
I buy the older boys' clothes since they are satisfied with thrift store purchases -- if they were into brand names or whatever, they would probably have to come up with the $$$ since we have budget constraints (doesn't everybody?)
My daughter has a clothes allowance because she likes to hunt for her own bargains and buy fabric to sew up. In general, they pay for extras and we pay for the basics and for educational expenses up through high school anyway.
When my oldest (19) started working outside the home and going to college I had him do less work around the house. His work pay goes into his college expenses, we pitch in what we can and loans and grants make up the rest. He also does a lot of computer work for my dh who has his own business. So his work around the house is fairly minimal.
We only have one (old beaten-up) car and can't easily afford the extra insurance to have teenage drivers so  my teens are not driving yet. They aren't really interested anyway yet. If they did drive and we were paying the insurance I think it would be fair to expect them to run some of the errands.
We pay for music lessons and team sports.
Neither my dh or I did much around the house when we were growing up, and our parents paid for college. Closer to your DH's end of the scale I suppose. Our kids do significantly more than we did when we were growing up but probably nowhere near as much as some kids their age do. Probably temperament plays into it a bit don't you think, Stephanie?
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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lapazfarm
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My dd (16) and ds (10) do the dishes together every night, and we don't have a dishwasher, so that is a big chore. Ds is in charge of trash and dd does bath duty for the littles. Ds feeds horses and helps muck stalls every morning and dd does it in the pm. Dd does her own laundry and ds helps with the communal laundry pile. Ds feeds dogs, dd feeds cats and cleans litter box. Ds mows the lawn and dd helps with unloading feed, hay, etc when needed. They each tidy their own rooms.
We don't have a teen that drives yet (soon!) but when she does she will be paying for gas, etc. She will be getting her first job this summer to help pay for extras.
Of course, they are both expected to help out any time with anything else if asked. (sweep porch, set table, watch littles, etc.) and that happens alot. In fact, right now dd has all three littles (ages infant, 2, and 4) out playing in the creek so I can get a few minutes break before starting dinner.
We generally work in spirit of cooperation around here, which is good. We all see how much there is to be done and understand our obligation to pitch in. Not that there aren't occasional grumblings, but usually they help good-naturedly.
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us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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StephanieA
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<16yo daughter does all the dishes except pots and pans>
Dear Willa,
So your boys don't do ANY of the dishes? Not to be nosey, but do they just show up for supper, lunch, etc. and eat? Do they cook any meals? Maybe this sounds like a stupid question, but I am beginning to think maybe I have unrealistic expectations on what 16 and 18 year old boys ought to be doing domestically.
<17yo boy does trash, sweeps kitchen and carries laundry and boxes upstairs.>
So you are saying this child doesn't do bathroom floors, any laundry, dishes, or cooking?
<I buy the older boys' clothes since they are satisfied with thrift store purchases -->
Same here...and the boys are just fine with it. We have a 2nd hand children's store than carries up to size 20. My husband is small-statured enough that I bought him a nice work shirt there for my girls to give Bill for Father's Day. But if I think the guys are fine with the number of pants or shorts they have, and they think they need a pair with pockets on the side, etc., then they are responsible for buying what I consider "extra" clothes.
<When my oldest (19) started working outside the home and going to college I had him do less work around the house.>
This seems reasonable. Maybe I AM expecting too much from the oldest as far as kitchen duty is concerned.
I am just not sure. I keep going back to the idea that if he were on his own (ie. apartment) he would be doing his own dishes, cooking his own meals, etc. everyday. Of course, he wouldn't be doing dishes for 9 people though.
<kids their age do. Probably temperament plays into it a bit don't you think, Stephanie? >
Temperament? Yes, I probably do. My oldest son detests dishes. I can't say I really have ever DETESTED them, for pete's sake.
Maybe I am not compromising enough. My kids tell me that they do a heck of a lot more than any kids they know and I can't disagree. But then again, I do a lot more than many women I know too. You have to with a large family.
Thanks, Willa. My kids will be glad you emailed 
Blessings,
Stephanie
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StephanieA
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<pm. Dd does her own laundry and ds helps with the communal laundry pile. Ds feeds dogs, dd feeds cats and cleans litter box. Ds mows the lawn and dd helps with unloading feed, hay, etc when needed. They each tidy their own rooms.>
I have a 14, 11, and 8 year old that help out quite a lot too with chores and the 2 little ones. But my issue is really not what they do, but what I expect out of the older teens. I saw a big difference in the domestic "attitude" with both of my boys when they reached about 16. Maybe this IS natural. They will work hard in the yard, at their lawn jobs, bale hay in the summer, etc. But they balk at doing the indoor stuff most of the time. Maybe I am expecting these boys to be too domestic. I didn't think there was suppose to be such a thing in 2006
I offered to teach them to grill out - a skill that my dh lacks - although, we'll keep trying when I can afford extra meat and they were very receptive. Any thoughts on this? Am I being urealistic? Do any of your boys 16+ really dig their heals in with domestic work - dishes, cooking, deeper cleaning? Any of your guys? Or should I be satisfied with them doing their own laundry and the outside work?
Blessings,
Stephanie
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Willa
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Oops Stephanie, I posted a reply and it got lost in cyberspace somehow.
The short answer:
All the kids at home rotate housekeeping chores which include bathrooms, mopping, vacuuming, etc. So my 17yo does his part on those as well as the dinnertime jobs I mentioned. We do laundry as a group.
We used to rotate the dinnertime jobs -- but everyone but the now 17yo ds disliked taking out the trash, so they'd bargain to trade their job for his. Finally we made the trash his permanent responsibility. He also does the recycling.
The boys unload the dishwasher but my dd loads it. She asked for this job. We use paper plates at lunch and the kids choose one drinking cup for the day so it's not an enormous amount of dishes. If we have visitors then we help her.
The boys are more likely to be assigned the hard outdoor work as you say. I should add we have 2 acres of forest land, no lawn mowing but there is raking lots of pine needles and twigs, stacking 7 or 8 cords of firewood in the fall and helping their dad with house projects.
I agree that we don't want to raise boys who know nothing about domestic chores or don't recognize what their wives /moms do around the house. I try to be transparent about what needs to be done and not kill myself working when there are lots of quiescent teen bodies lying around. If my kids really hate doing a job though and we can find a way to substitute something else, we try to go with that if possible. The main agenda here is to make sure everyone pulls their weight and is learning good work habits and responsibility.
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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teachingmyown
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My son, almost 15, does his own laundry, and is responsible for the trash, which he isn't always consistent about.(And he never puts a new bag in the can!) He also mows the grass and does any lifting or carrying that I need. His feeling is that he is a guy and guys do outside stuff. The problem is that there is not nearly as much "outside stuff" as there is inside stuff.
Everything else that he does is on an as-needed basis. Sometimes he is receptive to helping and sometimes his first response to my request is "why can't so-and-so do it?" Or, if he is willing to work, he will first make sure that everyone else is doing their chore as well. Part of the problem is that I have not put together a chorelist and assignments since we have been in the new house (7 months!). So, to the kids my requests can seem random and not evenly spread out.
However, my ds does have more privileges by far than the other kids. He goes to school which gives him less time but he seems to think that it exempts him from household chores. His one main complaint is that he doesn't make the mess. This is true, but he does eat!
I will say, though, that he has his shining moments to make a mom proud. Like last night, when I was trying to get the house straightened for today with a baby in my arms and a crew of fussy younger kids, Charlie came and took the vacuum from me and did that chore although it is his younger brother's responsibility. Then he did the dishes and straightened the living room. It almost seems like the times when I don't ask, but he sees me working my tail off, are the times he steps up to help.
Good topic, Stephanie! I am interested in hearing other responses.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Elizabeth
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I'll tell you what I expect of my three older ones (all boys): 17, 14, 11 My oldest daughter is only 9 and my husband is frequently away so I do depend on my boys.
The 11 year old cleans the breakfast dishes everyday. The 14 year old does lunch dishes.
They all do the dinner dishes according to who is home (you can't do this dishes if you are at practice until 10, but if you're home by 7, you're still on).The kitchen floor gets washed nightly. The trash goes out every night as part of the kitchen duty.
The 14 yo really does detest the dishes, pots and pans (he's okay with counters and floors). I truly do believe it's a sensory thing.I pretty much let them split up the list of kitchen tasks according to their own devices. But that list is really detailed so that n othing gets overlooked.
They are responsible for their own laundry and the maintenance of their own rooms. In the case of the 11 yo and the 14 yo, they also do the laundry of the younger sibling who shares the room with them. (This is theoretical and frequently requires my intervention.) The 17 yo has his own room in the basement. Therefore, he must keep the basement clean , including the bathroom.(This also is theoretical.  )
The 14 yo is responsible for the lawn (not the garden), including weedwacking and trimming. We have about a half acre.
The 17 yo is responsible for car maintenance on both vehicles, driving his sister to and from ballet twice a week and driving the 14 yo to and from basketball once a week.
They are all expected to babysit for their Spanish tutor whenever she needs it. They do lawn mowing for her too, though we haven't settled into that rhythm yet this season.
The 11 year old keeps the kids' bathroom clean.
The 14 year old vacuums the house twice a week, more if needed.
The 17 yo does all but the Costco grocery shopping (Giant, Trader Joes, co-op pickups). Costco won't allow him to go by himself.
They all take turns cooking and are pretty proficient in the kitchen.
There are other jobs which show up on their charts as needed but these are the spine.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Leonie
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My three teens ( 13, 14 nearly 15, 17) are responsible for their rooms. The 13 year old cooks dinner once a week ( he loves cooking). Everything is - we all pitch in and help. I'll ask them to do things but they are also encouraged to see things and do them too.
We all clean up after dinner - if I am busy I ask the kids to do it.
We all do housecleaning on the weekend. We all pick up and clean counters and do laundry or vaccuum or rubbish bins - I'll ask someone to do one of these jobs if they need doing and I or others are doing something else.
My 17 year old is studying externally doing university courses and works three part time jobs and is in the youth band and choir at church and in another band that requires practice time - so has a very busy life. But Ii expect the same from him as of others, when he is home - including myself and dh. We are all busy and time management is important - and we work together and make exceptions as needed.
Once the kids get part time jobs they start paying for little things themselves. And we encourage jobs from as young an age as interested - my 10 year old delivers the local paper, for example.
We don't have hard and fast rules or chore charts - a lot of trial and error over the years showed us that charts don't work for us.
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Living Without School
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StephanieA
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<They all take turns cooking and are pretty proficient in the kitchen.>
Elizabeth, how do you manage this? Do you say Michael has the supper meal on Tuesday? Does he choose what he wants to cook? Cook it and then call everyone in when it's on the table? How many meals are the kids responsible for during the week at lunch, supper, and breakfast? I assume this is the same during school hours also?
Stephen (16) was given the task of fixing supper last week, but proficient he wasn't. He fixed spagetti, but he burnt the noodles. It was no big deal, but he took it as a personal assault against himself
Obviously I need to get him back in there for more practice
Blessings,
Stephanie
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Elizabeth
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StephanieA wrote:
Elizabeth, how do you manage this? Do you say Michael has the supper meal on Tuesday? Does he choose what he wants to cook? Cook it and then call everyone in when it's on the table? How many meals are the kids responsible for during the week at lunch, supper, and breakfast? I assume this is the same during school hours also?
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I always have children with me when I cook and they learn that way. It's nothing formal. As they get older (8 or so) and want to take more control, I start to let them take charge but I'm still around. By the time they are around 10, they can follow a simple recipe and make a decent meal. Still, I'm not far away.
I don't necessarily assign a day of the week--life is not that planned. Patrick is my go-to guy when I'm too sick to cook. He's around more than the big boys and is more competent than the little ones.
They each (form 9 up) do at least one meal a week. Mary Beth (9) makes breakfast every day. I'm with her and we work together but it sort of resembles a diner--we have several different choices for breakfast. She's good with lunch too. She does Friday night dinners and is especially partial to Honest Pretzels. There's nothing in there she can't cook.
Patrick's a foodie: Mom's sick. She says hamburgers are planned for dinner. Why have plain hamburgers when you can make it special? Don't have all the ingredients? Ask Michael; he can drive. Patrick and Mary Beth do the cooking when Michael gets home and Christian entertains the little ones. Then, they eventually figure out that someone has to clean the mess. There's a general routine for this, so things fall into place.
That's a good day. On a bad day, they have fruit and cheese and popcorn for dinner and someone burns the popcorn on the bottom of the pot and leaves it until morning. Those are opportunities to point out how we all need to work together or we're going to be living a miserable life.
With both cooking and cleaning, I think what makes the system work more than not is that they know that they are truly needed. It's not some artificially arranged learning experience; it's just the integration of children into a large household.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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StephanieA
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<With both cooking and cleaning, I think what makes the system work more than not is that they know that they are truly needed. It's not some artificially arranged learning experience; it's just the integration of children into a large household.>
Thanks, Elizabeth! I think I was expecting too much perfection. Being ill enough not to cook much right now, I stupidly assumed SOMEONE would just take over. The boys are pitching in, but I wasn't giving enough instruction. Your popcorn and fruit night was a bit of reality check. I guess I thought if I was doing all this right, then we would have real meals every night.
Here's a "funny" cooking story that happened on Friday: Stephen took the middle kids to a demonstration at a local bee farm and while they were there, they bought some honey. When Peter got home, he wanted to know if we could immediately make something with it. We hadn't cooked cookies since Christmas, so I suggested oatmeal cookies with honey as the sweetner. So I set him to work beating the butter and eggs. He finally got the hang of stopping the beater BEFORE lifting it out of the bowl. But you can imagine what the cabinets and window looked like in his work area
I left him with the rest of the instructions and went to sit down. I came back to find him DIGGING in the bowl with his hands as his way of mixing the ingredients. "Peter, use a spatula or a spoon!" "Oh, but Mom, this way is faster and it feels gooey," he said, mushing the dough between his fingers.
I guess we'll need to work on culinary protocol.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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Elizabeth
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StephanieA wrote:
Your popcorn and fruit night was a bit of reality check. I guess I thought if I was doing all this right, then we would have real meals every night.
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Not my idea at all . I got it from Sally Clarkson! I figured if she could do it, I could too. And what's more, if she can admit it, so can I. So often, we write about the ideal and what we would really like to happen all the time, when, in reality, it's the journey that God cares about. It's the faithfulness in doing His will, not the always perfectly set table, always perfectly cooked meals, and always perfectly behaved children. If such were our reality, there'd really be no point in being here, would there?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Expectations for Teens
