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knowloveserve
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| Posted: June 27 2014 at 4:49pm | IP Logged
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What would you plan for a 6th grade boy (this fall) who hates writing and has very little experience in composition?
He loves to read. He has narration down pat. He can do short and easy dictations but wails about anything longer than 3 sentences. He is a horrendous speller and quickly forgets (or is sloppy about) basic grammar and punctuation. (Tangent: I'm starting to believe the schoolteacher who maintains that the knack for spelling is nature, not nurture. My 9 year old is a terrific speller... big brother often refers to him for help)
We did most of PLL a few years ago and some of ILL. but anything requiring original thought was met with frustration and I let him skip it or do it orally. 
A couple months ago, I threw in the towel and bought LoG since my boys seem to like writing in books. It was a relief and he's breezing through it.
Now, I'm starting to worry because he's of middle school age and can't or won't write without tears.
I bought The Writer's Jungle and read and loved the first half of it. Now it sits unused on my shelf.
What does he NEED to be doing around age 12? What should I look into for planning next year?
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Ellie
The Bleeding Pelican
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 27 2014 at 5:17pm | IP Logged
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Well, if you like The Writer's Jungle, the philosoohy is not that different ages are ready for specific things but that each writer passes through the the different stages at their own pace.
It sounds to me that your son is still in what Julie calls The Partnership Writing stage. He needs your help to write right now. I would flip and skim a bit and definitely reread the chapter in Bravewriter where she breaks down the stages.
Also, read the sample of her new resource, "Parternship Writing." it is pretty expensive, and I wish she had an option for half that to just give the list of writing priject ideas. It looks like you have to pay a premium for a lot of the same info in the three new books for the different age groups. All that aside, the Table of Contents with the sample lessons might spark some ideas, and you might find it is worth the price to have concrete plans for this particular child. It might surprise you how little actual writing she expects for those working their way through this stage.
So, I do think that having him do the exercise orally is normal, though I think that Julie would likely suggest *you* write it down for him so there is a product of writing in the end, something concrete that he can see was his work and came from that effort.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 27 2014 at 5:20pm | IP Logged
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I also would have him learning to type.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: June 27 2014 at 5:41pm | IP Logged
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What about FREEWRITING 1/week? Do you have the FREEWRITING FRENZY download from Bravewriter? See here if you don't already. Freewriting in general is AWESOME for kids like this, and this little guide may help to make it a little more fun and just give you some different ideas. You could use the ideas in FREEWRITING FRENZY for the first couple of months of school. Doing them 1-2/week. They are really fun!
Do you want to brainstorm freewriting??? If you do it already, what happens? What are your questions about freewriting?
Then, after a couple months of freewriting (you should have 8-10 freewrites), have him pick one of them that he wants to REVISE. Then....come back here and we can be your cheerleading team!!!! That would be about beg. of November.
Then, you move on from there....but ala Bravewriter....that would be your starting point.
Freewriting with BRAVEWRITER is foundational!!!! It's such a GREAT tool! You even do freewriting WITHIN revising a FREEWRITE.
Here is the sample for Partnership Writing
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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SeaStar
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| Posted: June 27 2014 at 7:10pm | IP Logged
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Ellie-
Have you ever listened to any of Andrew Pudewa's free talks about teaching kids to write?
This page
has several of his talks for free; you can also find some on YouTube.
He talks about reaching the reluctant writer and teaching boys who would rather be building forts, etc.
He also talks about why asking for creative or free writing from boys can be like a death sentence for them... how the information has to be in their brains already before you can expect them to pull it out and write about it. He shares how he felt as a middle school boy when he had to write anything; how frustrated he felt and how the tears started flowing. He gets how your son feels!
In his four deadly writing sins talk, he explains why expecting to kids to come up with their own topics and do all the work without much help is the very worst thing you can do. His theory is that you can't help them too much- it's just not possible. Why? Because when they get it- when they understand and can do it on their own, what is the first thing they say?
"OK, mom, I can do this myself!" They are wired to work independently, but first they need to get all the help they need. They will let you know when they are ready to do it alone.
I have the Writer's Jungle, and it is just too lose for my ds... he really needs the framework that Andrew Pudewa talks about. Listening to Andrew always makes me heave a big sigh of relief. There is hope.
IEW is an expensive program, but check out Imitation in Writing. It is a workbook very much along the same lines, and there are several boy-friendly themes, such as Aesop and Medieval Tales. The cost is way lower, and the overall method is the one that Ben Franklin used to teach himself to be a better writer.
Alternatively, maybe there is someone who can loan you the Teaching with Structure and Style dvds to watch. That is what I did. I listened to and watched all the free stuff I could find, and then I borrowed the rest.
Overall, I think of teaching writing this way. Say I need to be able to knit clothes for my family. So, I go to a knitting teacher who shows me beautiful yarn and all the items she , a master, has knitted. She talks about the method of knitting and may even shows me a few stitches herself. Then she hands me knitting needles and some pretty yarn and says: OK! Be creative! Think of something you like and knit one! It's not hard. you should be able to do this! Try a sock...no? Try a scarf; it's easier.
Try something! You are a grown woman. You are perfectly capable of doing this. You just don't want to!
That is a terrible method, and yet I think that is what I am asking my ds to do by asking him to be a creative writer off the top of his head or even
by expecting to know how to write without giving him solid step by step direction.
We go over and over the steps in math problems. Why would writing be any different?
OK- off my soapbox... you may already have checked out IEW . But if you haven't= treat yourself!
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 28 2014 at 5:26am | IP Logged
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Lots of really great points, Melinda. I know IEW is a great program, and I always love Andrew Pudewa's talks. Having just reread sectioons of The Writer's Jungle, I think that instead of knitting, perhaps Julie sees it more like teaching sewing by teaching the child to first make their own patterns, but the first patterns you make together are dinner napkins and pillow cases. In the Bravewriter lifestyle Julie describes, you don't just hand them a blank sheet of paper first thing and expect them to write something, you might hand them a notebook and speak to an interest of theirs saying, "Why don't you use this to keep some lists of the birds you see or ideas for lego creations." Some of the ideas in Partnership Writing have pretty detailed instructions.
I, too, think my son would cry if I asked him to freewrite. And, I admittedly have not formally required much writing by way of formal assignments because so far, my older two boys seem to follow the natural progression on their own. They start all kinds of lists, make up their own recipes, copy text from books to make their own, make signs, etc... I have been holding off until this year to really implement much that is formal with my oldest who just turned ten, but I think he can handle a little more formal exercise and practice to sort of move him on his way to the next stage.
I did start him on a touch typing program last year, though, because I really didn't want any of the hold ups. In writing as he approached middle school to be because he writes so slowly. It seems thst the actual act of writing is really a barrier for boys in general and is very high for some in particular.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SeaStar
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| Posted: June 28 2014 at 10:13am | IP Logged
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It's amazing how all kids are different, and what works so well for one child or family may not work so well for another.
I think my dd could do well with Bravewriter. My ds... another story. He is easily frustrated, and if he doesn't understand how to do something- or thinks he has done it wrong- I lose him. We have instant tears, paper crumpled up, drama galore. And then we are nowhere, except stressed and exhausted.
If he knows exactly what he is supposed to do, it's another ball game. Maybe he doesn't like his assignment and fusses. Maybe he doesn't want to do eight math problems or read pages 8-13 or whatever, but he does do it *if* he understands *how* to do it.
So that is why I like IEW. It gives him a plan, a step by step method. You've done A, now this is exactly how you do B. There is no guesswork for him since the steps are so clearly laid out. The source of frustration is eliminated.
As the program moves along it teaches the kids how to choose their own material, how to look at a picture and think up a story, etc. But at the beginning it's a no-fail method, which is what we need here.
My ds also does really well with visuals, so the dvds are a good fit for him.
Also, Andrew is funny, and since he is so in tune with boys, he knows how to make them laugh. That goes a long way at my house!
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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knowloveserve
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| Posted: June 28 2014 at 12:41pm | IP Logged
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Interestingly... I battled in my mind all last year about investing in either IEW or Bravewriter. Those were the two programs that most interested me. Bravewriter won because I found a smokin' deal on a used TWJ. But I haven't actually "done" anything with it... I had our 6th baby this past winter and needed (continue to need) as much self directed work as possible.
But I am highly attracted to IEW still because I admire the methodology. My son sounds a lot like yours Melinda. And I've read posts in the past with other curriculum choices you've made that match what we do too... so I sense IEW would be great for our family.
I balked because of the price tag for one thing. And also because I wasn't clear what exactly to buy even if I did want to buy. I haven't checked the site in a while but if I recall correctly, there wasn't clear cut instructions on "Buy this, then this. Then do that." I need things broken down very simply for me.  I also didn't "get" what the DVDs were for... me or the kids?
We have poor track record of CD/DVD learning in fact. I've just now moved away from TT because we've scratched two separate discs in two math program sets... so I can't even resell them.  The cost of the program isn't worth that risk for me. (We now are committed to Life of Fred primarily and I'm looking into supplements for next year). So if the IEW program involves DAILY DVD use, I'm scared.
We've managed to keep Visual Latin nice because it's only a few times a week and the kids aren't injecting and ejecting the discs regularly to take turns.
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Ellie
The Bleeding Pelican
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knowloveserve
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| Posted: June 28 2014 at 12:46pm | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| I also would have him learning to type. |
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Thank you for this reminder! We had started typing but drifted off... he does prefer to type ANYTIME over writing.
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Ellie
The Bleeding Pelican
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SeaStar
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| Posted: June 28 2014 at 1:53pm | IP Logged
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Ellie-
In the past, IEW made my head spin... I just could not get a grip on what/how to use this program. The teaching binder scared me- I borrowed one from a friend and tried to read it; it gave me a headache and I could not make sense out of it. And this was frustrating since when I listen to Andrew talk, it all makes perfect sense.
On top of that, at my house, things have to be very easy to use; otherwise we get to a random day- say Oct. 23 or Feb 12- and a very frazzled me says: yeah, well... hmmm.... whatever with that. Maybe tomorrow. I have to look at it first/figure it out first/have dad look at it first (my favorite).
But I wanted to find a program that we'd all like, that would be easy to use (no heavy planning/explaining/prep for me) and that could grow with us. I started talking to everyone I met about IEW and asking them questions. Bottom line that I heard was: it is not rocket science; it is doable.
Next step for me was to find someone to loan me the dvds and the teacher's manual so I could see them *at the same time*. That was my lightbulb moment. Hello! They are meant to be used *together*. The binder without the dvd makes pretty much no sense, since it is just an outline that allows you to watch the dvds without having to scribble down tons of notes. I could follow along in the binder beautifully while watching the (humorous) dvds. Hooray!
I called IEW and asked what level I should buy for a 4th and 6th grader. The answer was buy Level B (grade 6-8). It will come with supplemental material to use as source material for the 4th grader. Yay- another mystery solved. Level B has 4 dvds, and you do not watch them every day.
You watch a lesson and then spend a few days (or weeks) working on learning that material.
I felt so much better after putting the teacher dvds with the scary binder (scary no more). My ds even watched over my shoulder to check out "that guy" as I watched the teacher dvds.
The best news for me- The teachers dvds, binders, student stuff... whatever you need can be bought used. Watch eBay, Cathswap and Amazon. You can pick up materials for half price or less. You can get the initial $249 investment down to under $100, which is not bad when you consider that you can use it with all your kids at once. The resale value is also good.
I borrowed the teacher dvds, but I like them so well I think I might buy a used set for my own reference.
I was afraid that IEW would require a really big time commitment during the school year, but that is not the case. Small doses steadily is the way to go.
I am looking forward to moving along with this program in the fall.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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SeaStar
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| Posted: June 28 2014 at 3:07pm | IP Logged
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ETA: The teacher dvds are meant for you to watch on your own. They explain the basic method and are, IMO, full of lots of extra hints and tips.
The student dvds are meant to be used as part of the student writing lesson. Andrew Pudewa as a human sea slug is funny; my kids eat stuff like that up.
I have read on past threads here that you could in reality just use the teacher dvds to teach your kids instead of buying the separate student writing intensive program.
For me- and just because I know myself all too well- the program works better if I am using the student dvd for the student. Yes, my ds can watch the teacher dvds with me if he wants, but the student dvd is meant for the kids.
I want to have the best shot at making this program really work for us in the long run... I want it to be the language equivalent of our Rightstart and Life of Fred Math (we have never wavered from these). And in my gut I feel it really can be.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: 6th grader--writing Rx needed
