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SallyT
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| Posted: Dec 07 2013 at 8:59am | IP Logged
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My 11-year-old son is having terrible trouble falling asleep. It's kind of a family trait: I was a very insomniac child at times, and my almost-20-year-old tends toward night-owlishness, too. My son frequently tells me that he's been awake until 4 in the morning, when his older brother is leaving to go running, and I'm certainly seeing the effects of lost sleep in his mood and his ability to concentrate on schoolwork.
We do a quiet evening routine, and the 10- and 11-year-olds are generally in bed by 9:30. I try to get the 11-year-old up in the mornings at a decent time, so as not to let his sleep schedule get turned around, but he is very, very hard to awaken out of a deep sleep, once he's in it, so I don't always succeed. During the day, he's usually pretty physically active: outside running around in the yard "thinking" to himself is a typical activity. In fact, I know that one factor in his difficulty falling asleep is his difficulty in shutting off his very active brain -- it goes on chattering even when he's ready to stop. We don't do caffeinated drinks, or much chocolate, or any other obvious caffeine-containing foods . . .
His 16-year-old brother, who shares his room, does sometimes stay up later, and I know that's a factor. The 11-year-old hates to be left out, and he will make himself stay up until his brother comes to bed -- though often enough, the 16-year-old is getting up at 4 to go running, so is in bed and passed out while the 11-year-old is still brushing his teeth.
I've tried melatonin, which does help regulate things, but I'm reluctant to give it to him on a regular basis: it's a hormone, and I've read that it's really not good to give to children at all, and certainly not open-endedly. Any thoughts about this? I saw on another thread that someone was suggesting a Hylands homeopathic sleep remedy, which I thought I might look for as well.
Anyway, I'm really at a loss here. This is becoming a major problem for him, as he himself recognizes. I think there's probably a snowball effect in play as well -- he thinks to himself, "I won't be able to fall asleep! I've got to fall asleep! I can't fall asleep!" And that's how he spends hours of every night.
Anyway, I'd welcome any thoughts. Thanks in advance for your wisdom!
Sally
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Dec 07 2013 at 9:35am | IP Logged
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I had problems falling aleep, as a child and now. And I recommended the hyland's. BUT I'd also recommend the Bach's Rescue Remedy. But, neither will make you go to sleep, so if he's not really wanting to be in bed or go to sleep, it may not help. But the Rescue Remedy helps with anxiety type of stuff.. so it helps interupt the "can't stop thinking" cycle and the hyland's "calms" helps with relaxing into sleep. I'd use either of those with any of my kids.
When I got older, college age, I also found that a repetitive soothing activity could really help me be able to sleep. I played solitaire with a real deck of cards.. just enough thinking to help me "turn off" the "can't stop thinking cycle" and shuffling cards is a very soothing activity. But again, you have to want it to be so, or you could "get into" the game and try and win and have the opposite effect you're trying for.
But I do know that laying in bed when I can't sleep is the worst thing I can do. If I'm not asleep in a half hour or so, I've probably gotten into a waking up cycle.. and if I get up and do something.. again boring is good.. fold a load of laundry maybe.. with the idea that I want to get sleepy again. Well usually within an hour I can lay back down and try sleeping again. But if I just lay in bed, it's really hard to break that waking cycle and so I'd lay there for hours.
Basically, it was much harder for me to deal with as a kid because of things you think will help, like laying down and "trying to sleep".. when the more I'd try, the worse it would get. As an adult (basically 18+) I had a lot more flexibility to find ways that would help me sleep, that wouldn't have been allowed to me as a child who was supposed to be in bed.
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Aagot
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| Posted: Dec 07 2013 at 9:54am | IP Logged
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No real help here, Sally but just lettng you know, your son is not alone! Ugh! My 13 yr old has the same problem. I have had him take some magnesium before bed and that has helped when we remember. He says that he wakes up hungry and cannot get back to sleep if he goes downstairs to eat. So he likes to keep a snack near the bed.
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SallyT
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| Posted: Dec 07 2013 at 10:12am | IP Logged
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Jodie, we're not terribly strict about just lying in bed -- sometimes he gets up and gets some herbal tea or water or a snack, sometimes he lies in bed and reads (though that can backfire, since he can read all night if he's caught up in a book), and so on. We do try to give him some leeway, so that he can find ways to unwind -- and I am really grateful that we homeschool, so that if he does need to sleep later in the morning, he can. We're not stressing about falling asleep right at 9:30 so that he can be up to go to school, and I'm so glad that we have that freedom.
Meanwhile, the problem really is one of calming down, turning off his brain, and being able to fall asleep. He loves the melatonin because it does just that -- signals his body that it's time to sleep. But I don't really feel comfortable giving it to him -- at all, let alone for an extended period, to retrain his circadian rhythm. Still, I kind of think that that's the main thing that would help: something to help flip his body's switch from "waking" to "falling asleep."
Hm, hadn't though about magnesium. That might be something to try. And I will look for both the Hyland's and the Bach's.
Sally
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CrunchyMom
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I'd try the magnesium. Natural Calm is what I have for my kids. It is a powder that dissolves in water and is easily absorbed. Dh suffers from insomnia when he stops taking magnesium. If he has a few sleepless nights, sure enough, he's fallen off the wagon with his magnesium. It really makes a difference.
Does he ever have issues with constipation? That would definitely be a strong indicator that magnesium would help since it is related to both that and insomnia. Dh will sometimes take the magnesium before bed. It also helps him if he feels a headache coming on.
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Servant2theKing
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Hyland's Calms Forte is available online, but Walmart also carries it in the vitamin/supplement department. It can be difficult to find ~ usually on a bottom shelf area tucked in a with a few other homeopathic combination remedies. The box is small and dark blue, looks like this. It costs less than $4 for 50 tablets (dose for under 12 is 1-2 tablets). I don't have experience with the version for kids, but I think it might be intended for ADD/ADHD type symptoms, not necessarily for sleep issues. Since the regular version gives dosages for age 6-12 I think it might suit your purposes best to go with that one.
Regarding melatonin, you can sometimes build up a tolerance to it, to the point where it can actually make insomnia worse if used too regularly.
As a longtime insomniac, who can only take children's dosages of any medications, I've learned to use a rotation of various sleep aids. Any of these should be safe for an 11yo and might be most helpful if rotated so your son doesn't develop a tolerance to any single one:
melatonin
benadryl
calms forte
valerian root (smells bad but works well)
dramamine
A weekly, or even monthly, pill container can be very helpful for this purpose, so you don't have to worry about tracking what you've given your son on any given day.
Chamomile teas like this or this can be helpful. A warm bath with lavender can also relax a person who has difficulty getting to sleep. This or this shouldn't be too offensive for an 11yo boy. Lavender plug in air fresheners like this can also serve as a form of aromatherapy when used near the bed.
Links are just for illustration purposes ~ Walmart carries all of these products at much lower prices. (Dr. Teals is in the same section as bubble bath and foaming bath products.)
Nightly routines of warm chamomile tea; warm bath; sleepaid; listening to soothing music or an audio tape can all be quite helpful. Praying you will be able to find solutions that best suit your son's need!
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SeaStar
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My niece used benadryl as a teen having trouble falling asleep, and it worked well for her. Also, she was advised to avoid any type of screen, such as tv or computer, for an hour before bed.
Evidently the light and motion of the screen can keep your brain engaged and prevent normal fatigue from taking over. Reading a regular book was fine.
She also had to keep a diary of sorts and try to identify her "sleep window"- the time of night when it was easiest for her to fall asleep. Staying up past that point (on the computer, etc) would mean the window closed and she got a second wind. Then she really couldn't fall asleep!
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SallyT
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| Posted: Dec 07 2013 at 3:33pm | IP Logged
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Thanks so much for all the good suggestions.We do have some magnesium, so that may be the remedy for tonight. I have been concerned about the continued melatonin use, so am grateful for ideas for things to sub in.
Thank you all.
Sally
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Kathryn
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Does he do an evening snack of any kind? Milk, bananas are supposed to naturally promote sleep. Some others but can't remember. We started giving my ds greek yogurt b/c of the high protein and he was getting up to eat in the middle of the night and upsetting his sleep patterns again causing a never-ending cycle. That has pretty much stopped now so maybe a small snack right before bed would help.
We do on a rare occasion give melatonin too but like you don't like to make it regular. I am fairly strict about staying in bed though. I say that I can't make you go to sleep but you need to stay in bed. Sometimes I'll tell him I'll come back and I do (almost like a toddler  ) to check on him 10 min, then 15 min, then 20 min. It's as soothing for him as a small child and seems to help him relax.
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mathmama
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My 9 year old daughter can struggle like this. Vigorous physical activity has helped (running 3 miles/3 times a week), but she does still struggle occasionally. Oftentimes something is bothering her not totally consciously. So, I will ask her what is going on, sometimes she has to search for a minute, but often cones up with some little nagging thing (often related to her tendency to scrupulosity). We talk it out for 5 minutes or so and that usually does the trick.
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Pilgrim
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turkey can be a natural food that promotes sleepiness. It's the tryptophan(sp?) I think there's other foods with it, but can't remember them right now.
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Topic: Child's insomnia
