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Kathryn
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When should a child be writing paragraphs? This is a child that receives speech therapy for expressive language delays so I know he would be at a different level than average and if having trouble verbally expressing himself, I can see how that would make it difficult to express himself on paper. ?!
Anyway, for the class he's taking (most are 4th-6th graders), they were to write a persuasive speech as if they were a family member from the story they just completed. She gave them an outline with boxes and lines to each box to show how it all connected. It was to follow like this:
1) write goal
2) write 3 reasons to support goal
3) write 3 facts/examples for each reason
He was somewhat able to complete the worksheet. Then with lots of mom help he just could not take the ideas from the worksheet and make complete sentences or string together a paragraph.
Is writing supposed to come natural in a CM education? I think that's my hardest struggle with this child is that nothing comes easy so learning things from inferences or reading (which he still struggles with) doesn't seem to happen.
Is this a typical school assignment that he should opt out of doing?
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Kathryn in TX
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Mackfam
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I'm not sure how old the child in question is, Kathryn, but the short answer to your question about learning to write paragraphs in a CM education is that a child is ready after:
** ....the child has begun writing written narrations (around 10yo).
** ....the written narrations have progressed to forming multiple sentences (no set age for this - it happens when the child naturally begins to become more comfortable with writing his/her thoughts out).
** ....the child and I walk a chosen (by the child) written narration through the editing process. (This is how I teach paragraph formation {learned from Bravewriter's The Writer's Jungle}, not strictly a CM method)Print a written narration,
Cut all the sentences apart individually,
You and the child group the sentences into related groups --> paragraphs.
After reassembling the sentences in order, re-type the narration and print. We do this a few times before a child begins to naturally form paragraphs as part of their writing.
In a CM education there is no set age for writing paragraphs, and I think that was wisely done in order to avoid asking a child to write a paragraph when they may or may not be ready.
As to the specific assignment, I can't really tell you what to do. My kids have never responded well to worksheets and formulas like that so we don't do them or take classes that require them; they attempt to extract written thoughts from a child about a subject that they may know nothing/very little about. I think this is one of the reasons narrations work well - the subject matter is always something the child knows very well because they just read about it. Having said that, some kids enjoy assignments like this as well as tools like the worksheet you describe. From your description, it does sound like this was an abstract assignment that was beyond your son ("they were to write a persuasive speech as if they were a family member from the story they just completed"). I don't think there's anything wrong with completing the assignment together as long as you don't mind investing your (valuable) time and as long as you don't have any expectation of THIS teaching him how to write, or further, how to form paragraphs.
Those are just my thoughts, Kathryn. For whatever they're worth. 
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Jen Mackintosh
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Kathryn
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| Posted: Feb 27 2012 at 7:18pm | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
| they attempt to extract written thoughts from a child about a subject that they may know nothing/very little about. |
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So, at the end of the book (Caddie Woodlawn) the family voted whether to move to England or stay in America. The assignment was to choose which side you would want to be on and what you would want to do. DS had a strong opinion about what he wanted to do so may be what threw him were the facts she gave them about the living conditions in England at the time to support that position? May be that's where they were attempting to extract the info from him that wasn't even from the book? Is that what you mean? So, I just asked him to say what he would do and he said:
"I would want to move to England because they would have more money and their title would pass down through their family."
Mackfam wrote:
| My kids have never responded well to worksheets and formulas like that |
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I honestly don't know if he "likes" it or not...he just went along I suppose. I guess I've always thought these worksheets would make it easier to organize thoughts. Do you not think so? He is 11 1/2 but I'm not sure I could say we've "successfully" moved to written narrations. May be I should look more into that.
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Kathryn in TX
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 27 2012 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
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Kathryn wrote:
Mackfam wrote:
| they attempt to extract written thoughts from a child about a subject that they may know nothing/very little about. |
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So, at the end of the book (Caddie Woodlawn) the family voted whether to move to England or stay in America. The assignment was to choose which side you would want to be on and what you would want to do. DS had a strong opinion about what he wanted to do so may be what threw him were the facts she gave them about the living conditions in England at the time to support that position? May be that's where they were attempting to extract the info from him that wasn't even from the book? Is that what you mean? |
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Aha! I see now. So this was to be a writing assignment based on a book he read. And it does sound like he had formed an opinion on the topic asked of him.
It's hard for me to answer the question. It's not really how I'd approach a written narration, and offering all the information about living conditions and then asking a child to abstract and formulate reasoning to support their *hypothetical* decision on paper, neatly packaged into paragraphs is a heavy load. In an oral narrations these kind of observations might be natural for a child, or they might not be, but the difference is the child gets to choose what he offers you in a narration and it's based on what HE took from the reading...not what a teacher wanted or expected him to get.
What I meant earlier is that I often hear of assignments that are much more generic, not based on a book read or a topic the student knows much about, but rather a generic abstract topic starter.....like......pretend you are alone on an island and write about your experiences.  Some children COULD write after this topic introduction, but not most. So that's what I meant, and it's not really the situation your son was placed in, was it? He had read a book and really formed a solid opinion on the question. Perhaps the challenge for him was in conveying his thoughts in the written word? It sounds like he could convey them to you orally. So, in that case, maybe he just needs some time and patience as he develops in the skill of the written word?
These are all guesses on my part, Kathryn. I think you could talk to your son, pray about this, and decide how you'd like to approach the topic of writing. It's hard for me to brainstorm much more not knowing how you'd like to approach writing.
Kathryn wrote:
Mackfam wrote:
| My kids have never responded well to worksheets and formulas like that |
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I honestly don't know if he "likes" it or not...he just went along I suppose. I guess I've always thought these worksheets would make it easier to organize thoughts. Do you not think so? |
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Did you ask your son?
I'd suggest talking a bit to him, finding out if he thought it was a good tool or not. Perhaps he didn't mind the worksheet, but just found it a little new and unusual and therefore awkward. Or perhaps he didn't care for it at all.
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Jen Mackintosh
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And...just coming back to say that a persuasive paper is all about expressive language and you've already identified that as something that this student works very hard to convey. This would be something I would consider heavily in my decisions, too.
Another thought I had - what if I only had 1 reason to support my decision instead of the required 3 on the worksheet? Or only 2 reasons? And what if I couldn't express a fact (or 3) to support a goal?
This is where these formulaic writing forms become difficult to the child. Their thoughts, their expression or understanding has to fit in a mold rather than just express what they read with their own mind acting upon those ideas. So, something which is already stretching a child (conveying thoughts in the written word) isn't really asking what he thought of what he read, but it's asking him to draw abstract conclusions and express it in a way that may already be challenging for him (expressive language) and make all that fit in a tidy, pre-sized package. That would flummox me. 
Have you ever looked into Bravewriter's The Writer's Jungle? I don't like to promote it too much because it's an expensive program, but it has been a great program for our family and for me in particular, and it seems like it might help both him and you. It's written to you, not him, so it would not be a set of lesson plans you'd be able to implement. It's written to help you become a writing coach. You can purchase it through Homeschool buyers co-op for a reduced price when it's offered there. PLEASE don't buy this program just because I said I like it. Do your research, look into it, scrutinize it, consider it. I do want to mention it though because it seems like it would be a good fit. In order to help you consider, I really wanted to link some past threads on Bravewriter. Reading some of these really helped me make a decision when I purchased.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Kathryn
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I will check out Bravewriter. I enjoy writing but guess I don't know how to subjectively "teach" it or critique it or help them myself get ideas onto paper in a logical sequence.
I ended up typing this for him which is exactly what he told me and is all information he gained from us reading the book together and listening on audio (well except for last sentence...that was teacher fed info  ):
"I want to move to England because we would have more money and our title would pass down through our family. With more money, we could help the poor like Ma always wants to do. We could also buy the latest fashion style of dress. We would also get a better education because we would have a teacher for 9 months a year instead of 3."
So, honestly I think that's pretty good for him! I guess it was trying to fit into that worksheet and exactly what she wanted which isn't necessarily a bad thing and my daughter did the same thing 2 yrs ago but for him, that format just doesn't work. It's "traditional" school format (in my opinion) which is one reason we started homeschooling b/c I KNEW that didn't work for him so not sure why I keep trying to plug a square peg into a round hole. 
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Mackfam
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Kathryn wrote:
| I guess it was trying to fit into that worksheet and exactly what she wanted which isn't necessarily a bad thing and my daughter did the same thing 2 yrs ago but for him, that format just doesn't work. It's "traditional" school format (in my opinion) which is one reason we started homeschooling b/c I KNEW that didn't work for him so not sure why I keep trying to plug a square peg into a round hole. |
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It's a great realization, Kathryn! And will really be a tool in helping you more in the future! I think you did great brainstorming your way through this challenge! You recognized it as a challenge, correctly identified some of the particulars that apply to this challenge, have given yourself permission for both you and your son to grow into writing in ways that fit you!
Imagine the relief your son feels having supplied you with all he knows about the story, and being done....rather than having his square corners painfully chiseled off. Children are unique, and I'm grateful every day that I can consider the child first and the education as it fits the child, rather than the other way around!
Great job, Kathryn!  
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Jen Mackintosh
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Just wanted to follow up again on this after Alan read his "paragraph" to the class. Here was a note from the teacher:
He and Nathaniel did great. They came in tied for second for "best speech," when the class voted. I think it helped that they each had their own arguments so they had twice as many as most teams. Alan asked me to help him in case he got stuck on reading some of the words in his speech, but I never had to help him. I hope it was an encouraging experience for him.
Then this week we've started reading The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and his task was to eat sardines on toast, honey on toast and hot tea (like Mr. Tumnus' refreshments to Lucy on her first visit) and then he was to describe what he thought of it to the class. He didn't have to "write" anything but just recite what he thought and she said he seemed quite confident and gave one of the best speeches! Then she wrote "Stories, theatre, public speaking are real strengths for him."
I have so struggled with DS and all his learning challenges and schooling and even struggled with keeping him in this co-op class but now may be it's been an eye opener for both of us. I didn't gush praise all over him but instead used the CM thought of letting him bask in his own good work. So, I still thought I could brag here just a wee bit over this little victory in his schooling.
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Kathryn in TX
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Kathryn wrote:
| I didn't gush praise all over him but instead used the CM thought of letting him bask in his own good work. So, I still thought I could brag here just a wee bit over this little victory in his schooling. |
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Wonderful, Kathryn! Of course you can come here and brag!!! I'm so happy that some good fruit came out of this class/course, and your son feels encouraged and confident! FANTASTIC!!!!
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Jen Mackintosh
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Writing Paragraphs
